Misc. console discussion [split from Wii games thread]

Discussion in 'Games' started by darkwing, Jan 3, 2007.

  1. darkwing macrumors 65816

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    #1
    This is true. And I don't even know how HD-DVD expects to win the format war. The BDs can go up to 100 gigs and I've read in an interview with the CEO of insomniac that they were told the PS3 is capable of reading the quad-layer discs. And BD players, last I checked, are cheaper. But hey MS has to up their warranty and release an add-on box just to keep up with Sony is fine. At least they're capable of it. Nintendo had to release the Wii just to keep up with the PS2.

    I was at Circuit City last night in Salt Lake City, and they said they have 2 20 gigs. He said the 20s sell but most people don't want them. They sell the 60s as soon as they come in still.

    And speaking of 360 sales figures, don't forget we're seeing some deals with 299 premium systems with extras. I guess they need to raise demand.

    I haven't played a Wii yet, but I looked at the games lineup and I know what does or does not interest me personally. Do I need to play a game before I buy it to know if it's worth buying? Sometimes. Can I look at a list of games most of them with familiar names to know I didn't care for the previous installments of them and I won't bother this time? Yep, I sure can.

    I already said I plan to buy a Wii when SSBB comes out, and that wii sports looks like it'd be fun with friends. I've read numerous posts on this forum by wii owners who say the novelty of the controls wears thin after a while. That's what I figured would happen all along.

    I'm frankly mad as heck at Nintendo. I'll still buy a Wii because I need to play Nintendo games (certain ones) and it can play my GC games. I didn't buy a 1080p tv to play 480p games though. Thanks for my ROI, Nintendo.
     
  2. zero2dash macrumors 6502a

    zero2dash

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    #2
    I'd hardly call bare shelves "a great job". "A great job" is having enough that any time I walk into a store, there are systems sitting there waiting to be purchased. That's "a great job". Empty store shelves does not a great job make.

    Considering all the anti-Microsoft stigma (yourself included), 10 million is nothing to sneeze about. A lot of people didn't have a compelling reason to buy a 360 for the price. Now those same people don't have a compelling reason to buy a Ps3 either. Hell, I'd argue that those same people have a "-$200 less" reason to buy a 360 over a Ps3, actually.

    A +$200 Ps3 with 40gb more HD space + WiFi + memory slots + BluRay gets you a lackluster online experience, a questionable media format handcuff, and a lack of vibration in the controllers.

    Your anti-Microsoft bias is so hilarious its appaling.
    Nice job on the dollar sign behind the M there, too. I mean, it's not like Sony is in it to make money, either, are they? :cool: M$ indeed. :rolleyes:
    Thus far Cell has underdelivered and is reaching obnoxious levels of being overly hyped. How's that 4D gameplay again, Ed? I guess 4D gameplay = framerate problems...that's the price you pay for that extra dimension. :p
     
  3. darkwing thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #3
    Zero2dash, what's the lackluster online experience on the ps3? The only thing I notice about xbox live that I think is neat is racking up points in any game to go towards a special ranking. What else does it have over the ps3? I've played 4 of my 5 games online so far and all are great at getting me into a game without any problem or waiting. It's been lag free so far and just works perfectly. I couldn't be happier.

    I've sure not heard of any framerate issues on the PS3 either. Not like GOW. ;) At least Sony gave us some 1080p games to play.
     
  4. zero2dash macrumors 6502a

    zero2dash

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    #4
    The menu system is 1000x better on the 360; considering how bass-acwkards the Ps3 one is, you'd think they'd at least get the menu system/online presence screens setup in a manner and fashion that was easy to get around in rather than having to back out of half of the screens to go back to the initial system screen. Xbox Guide button FTW; I'm surprised Sony didn't rip that off too.

    As for framerate issues - practically every review of every [multiplatform] Ps3 game I've seen mentioned framerate problems which is pathetic. Don't sugar coat it (as I'm sure Ed will try) by saying "ooh well they took a 360 game and ported it to the Ps3", BS. Considering [gasp] all this power that Cell posesses over the 360 cpu design, well - let's keep it real - framerate issues equal pathetic. Resistance is a good game, I'll give you that. Runs good. (30fps but stable) Go look up reviews on Project 8 and see all the mentions of framerate problems. Or the poor texture issues in Madden. etc That's what I'm talking about.

    FWIW I have no framerate problems in Gears. I've beaten the game twice already and never seen a framerate drop.
     
  5. JHipp macrumors member

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    #5
    Just though that I would mention that at 6:00PM I walked into a Best Buy (just checkin in to see if they would say anything about shipments with the Wii), and saw 27 60GB PS3s there. I was very tempted.

    [​IMG]

    Went back the next day and there was one sold.
     
  6. darkwing thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #6
    I guess I don't understand what you mean about the menus. The XMB is good enough for what it does imho. When you play online you're in the game and so the game does whatever interface it wants.

    I posted 2 links to reviews of GOW in another thread that mention framerate drops. Resistance is stable at 60 fps at 720p and never drops. GOW has choppy as heck cutscenes, too, as mentioned by another player. I've never even heard of project 8. It's easy to port a game in a crappy way and have it not run right. It's easy to make a game on an old system with bad framerates. I've mentioned the overworld map in Tales of the Abyss being choppy as heck on the PS2 before.

    What's pathetic is spending all this time on GOW and hyping it up only to have it have numerous reviews saying it has framerate problems. A game wiht such hype and developed EXCLUSIVELY for the 360 should not have these problems. Either the developers are tools, or the game does more than the 360 can handle. Take your pick.
     
  7. e²Studios macrumors 68020

    e²Studios

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    #7
    I like the menu system on the PS3 a lot better than on the 360 personally. But thats a matter of choice, not really a huge deciding factor for much else. As far as framerate issues go, I have yet to see any on the PS3. Resistance is solid both online and in single player, untold legends is solid in both online and single player, NFSC same.

    As far as not seeing any framerate issues in GoW, either you really dont know what to look for, or you're talking out your arse. I vote the latter considering how all you did was spin what i said without really stating any real information.

    PS3 has bare shevles for now, Sony jsut ramped up shipping recently and is now shipping out 2 shipments a week to retailers, which is more than Nintendo can claim to be sending. The fact that the shelves remain bare is a testament to the fact that people are buying it as opposed to the 360 that sits on shelves.

    Ed
     
  8. zero2dash macrumors 6502a

    zero2dash

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    #8
    Well I was talking about actual gameplay framerate problems, but yes, Gears has choppy cutscenes at least half of the time.

    Tony Hawk's Project 8

    Gears uses the Unreal 3 engine which AFAIK was initially said to be only possible on the Ps3. Since Gears is the first game to use the Unreal 3 engine, I'd expect some hiccups. If Gears 2 is similarly choppy, then it'll irk me (irk being the key word, much more effective in this case than using "bother" :)).

    Real information? What isn't real, Ed?
    The fact that the Ps3 is $200 more?
    The fact that Xbox Live has a larger online userbase with more features than Sony's Network?
    The fact that BluRay isn't proven and widely accepted as a media format?

    But I'm talking out my arse though. Oooookay there, Ed. :rolleyes:

    The fact that 360s are on shelves shows that the systems are available to be sold, nothing more. Which is more than anyone can say for the Ps3. But let's not bring up sales again like you did in your other post in another thread, eh? Ps3 pales in comparison in total sales, but they sure are making headway in the "units shipped" category though. :rolleyes:
     
  9. e²Studios macrumors 68020

    e²Studios

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    #9
    The FACT is that i was comparing the 360 premium WITH a HD-DVD player, or did you casually choose to not read that part?

    The fact also remains that the 360 is lacking a lot of basic features that should be in a system.

    Ed
     
  10. zero2dash macrumors 6502a

    zero2dash

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    #10
    The console as a base is $200 cheaper.
    If you choose to pay an extra $200 for a high def movie player, that's your choice. You know, choice, rather than having it forcefully shoved down your throat.

    What...like 2 HDMI ports?
    /sarcasm :D

    Oh, wait. Ps3 didn't ship with 2 in the end either. :rolleyes:

    Both systems are equally well equipped to play games.
    BluRay is not a requirement, neither are media stick slots.
    Get real.

    Oh - BTW
    Who outsold who again? 360s were on shelves sitting still, eh?
    http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/02/preliminary-xbox-360-wins-holiday-sales-battle/
    Foot...meet mouth.
     
  11. darkwing thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #11
    You're right. Sony should have just rushed to ship units like Microsoft did so half the units sold could overheat. That's the way to treat their customers. They made the difficult decision to cut shipments back until they could solve their production issues with the diodes. After all, customers should matter right?

    Oh wait, this is Microsoft we're talking about. :rolleyes:

    Do you honestly believe the 360 would have been anywhere but #3 this holiday season if the Wii or the PS3 could have kept up with demand for them? That isn't a shot at the 360, but the fact is the new systems have insane demand. Neither Nintendo nor Sony could meet it.

    Thanks for letting me know. And yeah hopefully GOW2 will be better.

    But I was talking about framerate issues in the game. They say it usually runs about 45 and won't "drop below 30" but why can't it just be stable? I never see slowdowns in Resistance. If GOW loses frames when too many baddies are on the screen you might as well label it an old NES game.
     
  12. zero2dash macrumors 6502a

    zero2dash

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    #12
    A) You have no #s behind your claim (half? come on. 1-2% if that)
    B) You're comparing Microsoft's hardware failures to Sony?
    I don't even know where to begin with that nonsense.

    -How many Playstation owners had to turn their PSX sideways or upside down, because they stopped reading games? (I know 3 people personally)

    -How many Ps2 owners had faulty lens assemblies that stopped reading blue discs, DVD format discs (game and movies), or BOTH? (I had one that did this)

    -How many PSP systems have forcefully ejected UMDs?

    -How many people have complained about the Square button sticking on the PSP because its too close to the screen, to which Kutaragi said some nonsense about "the PSP is a work of art, you wouldn't tell DaVinci to redraw Mona Lisa's nose smaller would you?"?

    But Microsoft is the worst of all because some people put their 360s in poorly ventilated entertainment centers though. :rolleyes:

    Give me a break.

    Both new consoles have demand, sure.
    Both are also unproven.
    Maybe you don't realize, but a lot of people are sick of being burned by Nintendo (myself included). I've bought practically every Nintendo system at launch and with the exception of the NES, SNES, and Gameboy lineup - they've let me down. Gee I wonder how many other people are out there who are similarly sick of Nintendo's refusal to adopt to change??

    Meanwhile Sony's basing BluRay success and a +$200 pricetag premium on the name "Playstation". Sorry, considering that most homes don't own HDTVs yet, the Ps3 is an expensive unnecessary pill that most people won't swallow. People will settle for Wiis or 360s because they're cheaper, even if they don't get to take advantage of the HD capabilities, but if you think an extra $200 makes the deal that much sweeter for the non-HD crowd then you're kidding yourself.

    You know, I'll always be fair to all of the systems (despite what Ed believes) and I've owned practically every system in my 29 years of being alive. But at the same time I'll downtalk the Ps3 til I'm blue in the face because it's a ridiculously unnecessary system with too many 'cons' and not enough 'pros'. If you or anyone is so fazed that you can't look at the facts on the board and say "they might have screwed up and bitten off more than they can chew this time" (Sony), then I don't know what to tell you.

    I'll get a Wii later this year. Ps3 - not bloody likely.
     
  13. darkwing thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #13
    No numbers behind what claim? I didn't specify anything to do with numbers. I only theorized that the Wii and PS3 would have outsold the 360 if they could have met demand.

    Yes I am aware of these problems. They happen years down the road. How many 360s overheated and quit working when they were a couple days old? Where are the major hardware problems with the PS3 or the Wii? The Wii shipped a few units with that startup disc error, but otherwise both companies have done a good job. Why couldn't Microsoft? There's no excuse for a system to overheat when its big-as-a-ps3 power supply is external. :rolleyes:

    Honestly I've never heard of this one. I have a PSP.

    I've heard of this one, but I didn't know it was because the button was too close to the screen. I just remember there being a problem with square buttons and sony having to take in units for repair. So ok, we have a major launch problem. So does the 360. Looks like the PS3 didn't, and those are the two being discussed.

    I agree with you there. If you don't have an HDTV, there's no reason to buy a ps3 right now. Just wait for it. However when/if the analog stuff ends and as HDTVs continue to fall in price, they'll continue to be more widely adopted. As such, you'll see a larger demand for HD gaming. This was the Wii's big mistake and why I feel the 360 and the PS3 will always be battling it out. that said, I think the 360 will still be #3 when all is said and done. Let's make a new forum in a couple years and see who is right. At least being wrong won't cost either of anything. :) Except maybe the purchase of the other's console.

    I'm also going to get a Wii later this year.

    Just so you know, I don't feel the 360 is a bad system. I just feel it isn't as capable as the PS3 and isn't as future proof. I think the PS3 is something that can comfortably move us into the 2010s without problem.
     
  14. zero2dash macrumors 6502a

    zero2dash

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    #14
    I agree that the Ps3 is more future proof, but could you also agree that they're shooting for the moon and putting wagers on what media format is accepted with it?

    People can dog Microsoft all they want for not including an HD format DVD player in their system, but IMO they played the smart card - they said "we don't know which one will be more popular, so we're leaving them both out". Eventually people started the comparisons and they lassoed their rope around HD-DVD because it was "the anti-Sony choice". But still...if BluRay flops, won't you be a little ticked off that you paid an extra $200 for your Ps3 and you can't buy any new HD movies for it anymore? (That's the big if, of course.) It was good of Sony to put in HDMI, but bad to omit the cable from being included with the $600 model. IMO - I can live with the 360 being capped for me at component. Sure, I could get a VGA cord and (maybe somehow) get an HDMI-VGA adapter if I wanted, but I'm content with component on the 360.

    Yes, though, by all means...Ps3 is more future proof. IMO I like the "safe bet" though. No extra money spent...no extra money lost. /shrug :)
     
  15. darkwing thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #15
    I've always said they were. They're hoping if they can propagate the PS3s into people's homes that blu-ray will take off. Everyone knows that. Who said it isn't true?

    The advantages in it are the games can hold much more content. This also means more FMV for FF13, which is another reason I won't buy a Square product.

    HDMI-VGA adapter is no better than VGA. Lame.

    Why can't you play games on the HD-DVD drive? If you could then I wouldn't think it was so bad.

    Would I be upset if BD flops? Nope. I didn't use my ps2 to play dvds. I waited until I could get a $100 dvd player and got one. I don't even watch movies. I hate giving my money to liberals in Hollywood. If I need to watch BD movies I'll buy a player when/if they become cheap.

    I mainly bought the PS3 because I'm a huge JRPG fan and banking on Japanese companies releasing games for that platform. If they decide to target the 360 then I'll be in trouble and likely have to buy one. I bought the PS3 now because I've had an itch lately to play FPS games and I wanted to see some real 1080p content on my new tv.
     
  16. zero2dash macrumors 6502a

    zero2dash

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    #16
    People hate FFX, I liked it. (Hated VII and VIII though. IX was good. I'm an old-school FF fan.) But otherwise - yes I refuse to buy Square products too. (At least if they're CD based...FFIV Advance is frickin' sweet man.) :)

    BluRay games requiring the space - eh the jury's out. With the reports of Resistance having padding data (ie rubbish) and only being 10gigs (or so) in size...we'll see how much BluRay is a "requirement". I see it as a cop-out/way to force the media down our [gamers] throats, but, that's just my two cents.

    Considering that you could use the VGA to display out at a higher than 1080p resolution, I wouldn't poo so much on VGA. :)
    Granted, VGA is an analog signal...so it's sorta easy to hate it.

    A) That splits the market between HD-DVD owners and those that don't, and generally creates madness. Remember the SegaCD/32X? Or the TurboCD? JaguarCD? Scratch that last one; the Jaguar didn't need any add-ons, it already sucked. (And yes...I owned one. Hey, it only cost me $25 brand new, I figured it's gotta be worth $25. Mmmmm nah.)

    B) It's not necessary. I fall into the "don't mind swapping out disc 1 for disc 2" camp.

    I'm not really much into JRPGs myself, but I hear Blue Dragon received good reviews. I'm not into Dragon Quest, and other than old school FF - Square doesn't get my $$. :) Congrats though, eh the important thing is that you enjoy the system, that's all that matters.
     
  17. darkwing thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #17
    Good point. I am enjoying FF3ds.

    Until someone gets a BD drive for a pc maybe we won't know how big it is. But what's wrong with having games that don't use the whole disc? How many ps2 games don't use a whole dvd? It's just an option for developers.

    I'm not. I like VGA. I just meant that it'll still have any analog issues that you'd have with a noisy environment and it still won't carry your audio.

    Swapping is fine, but that costs more money to manufacture. Developers may ultimately appreciate having all that space when BDs can be made cheaply enough. (Perhaps they already can.. I don't know.)

    I think Blue Dragon is the one my Japanese co-worker is playing on his 360. He's got a 360 and a PS3 and likes the PS3 a lot more but only because he's into GT.
     
  18. gloss macrumors 601

    gloss

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    #18
    Did you just post up there that Blu-Ray hardware costs less than HD-DVD? What are you smoking?
     
  19. darkwing thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #19
    I guess what I said isn't correct anymore. When I looked last time, I think I was seeing older first-gen BD players. The gen2s are way more expensive than a freaking ps3. I'm seeing some HD-DVD players in the $350 range, but I'm not sure if those are from reputable dealers or not.
     
  20. gloss macrumors 601

    gloss

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    #20
    HD-DVD standalone players run $499. Blu-Ray standalone players retail at around $899-$999. I'm leaving the PS3 out of the equation of course, but even there you can get an Xbox360 + HD-DVD attachment for $500.
     
  21. e²Studios macrumors 68020

    e²Studios

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    #21
    Buzz :) the prices are getting quite competitive now on the player front.

    Soon enough the prices will be neck and neck, the main issue why Bluray players were more expensive was because the diodes were having issues in manufacturing, now that the issue is solved I am sure you will see Bluray player prices fall possibly quicker than HD-DVD players.

    I had to "add to cart" to see the price so im not trying to pull anything on the prices :)
     

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  22. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #22

    Actually scarily this side of the Atlantic, I've seen the very few BD & HD-DVD players advertised here for €1500-2000 for BD & €1000 for HD-DVD. That's quite simply ridiculous prices considering dvd player is €35-50. And it doesnt matter all the extra horsepower needed in a HD playing maching, the public just see the price tag.

    Unless the price falls rapidly for both formats I dont suspect 2007 will see much reaction other than abstanation from the general consumer here.

    Why our prices bare no relation to the USA price even accounting for tax etc still amazes me.

    If you were going to go one way or the other with HD, I'd recommend a 360+HD-DVD or PS3 over the standalone machines at the current price point.
     
  23. gloss macrumors 601

    gloss

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    #23
    I stand corrected, then. Last time I checked was a couple of weeks ago.

    I still maintain that HD-DVD has a price advantage, albeit not so large of one as before. The 'BD is cheaper than HD-DVD argument' remains bollocks.
     
  24. JackAxe macrumors 68000

    JackAxe

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    #24
    The HD DVD drive is cheaper, but it should be when considering its storage capacity.

    But on the other hand, I've noticed that BD-R media costs less than HD-DVD-R media. So the drive might be a bit more, but I can get a 25GB BD-R disk for backup for about the same price as a the 15GB HD DVD-R disc, or a 50GB BD-R for the about the same price as a 30Gb HD DVD-R disc. So for someone like me that needs to lots of backup space, the BR option offers a much better price advantage over HD DVD.

    Come back in a year when both the HD DVD and BR drives cost less than a $100 and then the media price will make an even bigger diference. :)

    <]=)
     
  25. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #25
    I agree with you, but I wouldnt risk backing up to either format until a winner is sorted and first release kinks are sorted.

    I remember backing up to some of the first writeable DVD's and the first CD's and those discs do not work anymore.

    I'll stick with HDD especially as the price per gb is cheaper for a HDD at the moment.
     

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