MLB awards

Discussion in 'Community' started by jxyama, Nov 3, 2004.

  1. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    #1
    (yes, it's an excuse for me to pick on one of my least favorite players... :p)

    AL gold gloves were announced and not surprisingly, they include a few awful selections.

    P - Rogers: gold gloves for pitchers are kind of a toss up, but this choice is ok. rogers had the highest # of total chances and only had one error.

    C - Pudge: this is mostly a reputation award now. molina had an off year and pudge contributed a lot to his team, so i guess this choice is ok.

    1B - Erstad: one of the worst choices. delgado and hatteberg had a better year defensively, going by numbers, but both suffered from not being known defensive players. erstad benefitted from being a gold glover already - albeit at OF... it did hurt that two previous winners switched teams during the season, olerud and mientkiewicz

    2B - Boone: awful choice. boone had one of the lowest range factors and one of the worst fielding percentages. clearly a "reputation" award. orlando hudson had less errors while making 1.5 more plays per 9 innings.

    3B - Chavez: no brainer. he's one of the two best defensive third basemen, the other being, of course, scott rolen.

    SS - Jeter: (here it goes) awful. plain awful. here's steinbrenner's comment on this: "Derek Jeter is a great, inspired leader and captain" and exactly what do those have to do with defense? :rolleyes: jeter's numbers improved quite a bit from the previous year, probably owing to the fact he now has a gold glove SS playing next to him, but it still didn't come near the job tejada did this season. crosby had a superb year as a rookie.

    OF - Ichiro, Hunter and Wells. ichiro is the best defensive RF, perhaps only guererro coming close. hunter and wells, well, not much debate there - two superb CFs. kotsay and wynn had solid years, but reputations probably gave hunter a little push. wells has been deserving before this year.

    NL announcements will be made today.
     
  2. wrc fan macrumors 65816

    wrc fan

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    #2
    The reason Jeter won is because he had a .981 fielding percentage, while Tejada had a .971, and unfortunately that doesn't tell the true story of the fact that Tejada has much larger range and gets to balls Jeter doesn't even come close to, but that also results in more errors happening.

    Chavy again wins the clean pants award... that guy sure makes all his plays look spetacular just to keep his pants clean. But I do agree he is probbly the best defensive 3rd baseman in the AL.
     
  3. wrc fan macrumors 65816

    wrc fan

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    #3
    I also just checked the stats for catcher... the highest fielding percentage belonged to Damian Miller. He had a .999, while Pudge had a .987. Though you can make the case that Miller was working with a much more polished pitching staff than Pudge. The highest NL catcher was Chad Moeller. So we'll see if he wins or not.
     
  4. stevietheb macrumors 6502a

    stevietheb

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    #4
    No way Chad Moeller would win. I can't really see it going to anyone other than Matheny (as much as I hate to say that, being an Astros fan).

    I think the Golden Glove is the most overrated award in baseball. How many gold gloves has Bonds won? Eight. I don't think any of those that he won with the Giants were won on the strength of his glove, but rather his bat. I think that's the case far too often.

    I can't think of a better 3B (in his day) than Ken Caminiti (sad...). The man got to more balls than any 3B I've ever seen. I put him in the same league as Brooks Robinson. His arm was incredible (though Scott Rolen's may be better). He had more errors because he got to those balls that most 3B didn't get to. YET, he won 3 GG in 3 years in which (all of a sudden...) he became an offensive threat.

    SO, I abstain from the Gold Glove Award, but here are my picks for the remaining awards:

    NL Cy Young -- Randy Johnson or Roger Clemens...I take Clemens because I'm an Astros fan.

    AL Cy Young -- Santana (looked like Pedro back when Pedro was good)

    AL MVP -- Miguel Tejada is who it should be, but postseason heroics will give the award to David Ortiz (I have serious issues with an MVP going to a DH...I have serious issues with the DH)

    NL MVP -- it'll be Bonds, because everyone feels pressured to vote for him or something. It should be either Albert Pujols or Adrian Beltre.

    ROY awards--I always forget who's a rookie...so I dunno.
     
  5. Koodauw macrumors 68040

    Koodauw

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    Madison
    #5
    Congrats to Jeter. I am sure that this will make up for the ...
    I dont know if there is words to describe what happened to NY.

    *Hangs head in shame*
     
  6. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #6
    Bonds is ruining baseball, he is watering down the sport and taking all of the awards by default. He shouldn't be the MVP because he just hits home runs and has no defensive talent. IMO
     
  7. Koodauw macrumors 68040

    Koodauw

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    #7
    Youll love him when he's a Yankee ;)
     
  8. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #8
    I would never accept Bonds or Pedro as Yankees.
     
  9. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    #9
    Yeah, there's a word.


    Choking :D

    And there's no way Ortiz would get AL MVP over Manny.
     
  10. wrc fan macrumors 65816

    wrc fan

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    #10
    I know most people don't like pitchers getting MVP since they have their own award... and I normally agree. But this year I think since there is no clear cut winner (You can't say Manny was that more valuable than Ortiz, they were #1 and #2 in many catagories), I'd vote for Santana. I really think he was the catalyst for the Twins making it into the playoffs.
     
  11. HiRez macrumors 603

    HiRez

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    #11
    Put down the crack pipe. Hmm, where to start? Bonds had one of the best offensive seasons by any player in the entire history of baseball in 2004. To say it was "just home runs" is an incredibly ignorant statement. He also won the NL batting average title by 15 points, shattered the previous records (his) for walks and intentional walks, and easily left the rest of the league behind in the premiere offensive stat: OPS (also a new single-season record). His OPS is 40% higher than the next closest player! Considering that no one would even pitch to him with runners in scoring position, and he had zero protection around him in the lineup (unlike Pujols, Edmonds, and Rolen), it's astounding he had 101 RBI in only 373 at bats.

    At first glance it might seem like people like Pujols and Beltre have about the same or even better aggregate (totals) stats than Bonds did. However, if you normalize Bonds stats to the same number of at-bats (to take his ridiculous walk total out of the equation) you'll see he's still way, way better than all of them. Let's look at his stats normalized for at-bats:
    Code:
    Player       AB/H     AB/HR    AB/RBI       RC27
    ------------------------------------------------
    Bonds        2.76      8.29      3.69	   20.21
    Pujols	     3.02     12.87      4.81       9.22
    Edmonds      3.32     11.86      4.49       9.80
    Beltre       2.99     12.46      4.94       8.68
    Rolen        3.18     14.71      4.03       8.84
    Do you see the pattern? Everyone else's stats, while all good, are all about the same. Bonds' stats are so out of proportion to everyone else's that they look like a mistake, like they're not even from the same table (lower numbers are better, except for RC27). I'm sorry you don't like Bonds but if anyone else is named NL MVP it's a travesty.

    Yeah, he's not the defensive player or base-stealer he used to be but the guy is over 40 years old, what do you expect? Defense should be a small part of the equation but let's face it: MVP is an offensive production award. Defense has its own award, Golden Glove. However, even that argument doesn't hold water because guess what: Bonds wins there too. In fielding percentage: Bonds .996, Pujols .994, Edmonds .988, Beltre .978, Rolen .977.
     
  12. jxyama thread starter macrumors 68040

    jxyama

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    #12
    NL gold gloves didn't have as many surprises. i think most of them went to deserving ones.

    rolen is by far the best third baseman in MLB in quite a while. he's always been a great defensive player, he runs extremely well and he's had good power. this year, he even hit for average... too bad his WS performance dampered things a bit for that guy.

    bonds was quite a fielder before he bulked up. his gold gloves weren't completely without merit. the problem with gold glove is that since it's very subjective, previous winners tend to become the default choice when no one else stands out.

    in any case, the rest of the awards...

    AL MVP - since the voting takes place before the end of the season, i'd imagine this will go to ramirez or sheffield. with boston-leaning writers splitting between ortiz and ramirez, i think sheffield will win. tejada was one of the best overall players but i'm not sure if he was the most valuable.

    NL MVP - bonds, no asterisks or questions. if giants were in the last place, i'd go with pujols, but bonds' numbers are simply too amazing. giants would be in the last place if not for him.

    AL Cy - obviously, santana or schilling. but santana had better numbers in the end and post-season doesn't count so...

    NL Cy - johnson, if voters were reasonable. but they probably won't be, so clemens will get it mostly because of his W-L numbers.

    AL Rookie - crosby. easy choice.

    NL Rookie - i have no clue. no one stood out in my mind... (though i admit to paying less attention to NL...)
     
  13. decksnap macrumors 68040

    decksnap

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2003
    #13
    Jeter- is there anyone who deserves a golden glove LESS? This guy sucks in the field. The man had three errors at shortstop in the series against the Sox alone.
     
  14. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    #14
    Why not? Manny actually contributed in the field (Larry Walker and Miguel Cairo will attest to that :D), whereas Ortiz didn't even touch a glove between July and two weeks ago.
     
  15. wrc fan macrumors 65816

    wrc fan

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    #15
    He sure did contribute in the field... just not in a postitive manner.
     

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