MLB: Offseason Moves

Discussion in 'Community' started by jxyama, Dec 8, 2004.

  1. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    #1
    well, i'm just gonna forget for a moment about the steroids, because it makes me sad and angry.

    i'm going back to the good old yankee bashing while sox are still the champions! :D

    yankees just rewarded an aging infielder with a career year for the team with the best record in baseball (coincidence?) with a two year deal.

    yankees also rewarded an once washed up but miraculously resurrected his career pitcher with a three year deal.

    i'm no baseball executive (duh), but no wonder yankees have a ridiculously high payroll, no depth on their roster and an aging team with most players in their declining phase of their career... womack had a career year in every sense - and it wasn't that good. he's not worth two years at $2 mil per. can you imagine paying a 36 year old womack $2 mil? wright resurrected his career, no doubt partly because of the magician leo mazzone (see neagle, hampton, etc.), which may or may not be a real resurrection. handing him 3 years at $7 mil per is a really risky move. out of 8 years he's been in the majors, he's pitched more than 100 innings just three times. given the state of yankees bullpen, why do they need a starter that is a huge gamble to pitch even 100 innings? i guess compared to brown and vazquez, $7 mil per year isn't that much, eh?

    yankee fans: please commence the sox's offseason move bashing! :D
     
  2. gwuMACaddict macrumors 68040

    gwuMACaddict

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2003
    Location:
    washington dc
    #2
    the yankees' moves are ridiculous... frantic attemps to put together a team to win next year...
     
  3. Koodauw macrumors 68040

    Koodauw

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Location:
    Madison
    #3
    And I will.

    Actually hang on a sec, I didnt hear about these signings, let me go read about em.

    Yeah ok those signings suck. No body wants tony Womack, and you think Wright is gonna be able to pitch in NYC? I'm leaning towards no.

    Anyways, the Yanks will make a run at Beltran, and make an offer to Pavano. They may try again for Johnson, but Arizona is such a horribly run franchise who knows what will happen.

    Giambi will and should be gone. Hopefull Olerude will be interesting in staying.

    As for the Bo Sox Singings.. Give Pedro and Jason what they want! They just won you a world series for crying out loud. Pay the men some money.
     
  4. Deefuzz macrumors 6502a

    Deefuzz

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    #4
    Are you serious?

    Tony Womack was a huge asset for the Cardinals last season, it's a shame he wont be back. I'm sure you will be singing a different tune when you actually see him in action.
     
  5. Koodauw macrumors 68040

    Koodauw

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Location:
    Madison
    #5
    Could be. I thought Cairo did a very good job last year though. I guess I always disliked Womack form his Pirate days.
     
  6. Deefuzz macrumors 6502a

    Deefuzz

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    #6
    Well I will agree that Cairo was great as well.

    I guess being a Cardinal fan I show somewhat of a bias. But at least he is now on my favorite AL team, treat him right!! :D
     
  7. jxyama thread starter macrumors 68040

    jxyama

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    #7
    womack is vastly overrated for the simple reason he's really, really fast. whenever he beats out an infield blooper or steals a base, people remember that and forget the fact he does neither very often.

    his career OBP is .319 (.349 last year), neither of which is anything to get excited about for a leadoff hitter. he also has no power. and unlike someone like ichiro, who has no power either, womack never hit better than .307 or drawn more than 52 walks a season, making it highly unlikely that his OBP will improve.

    womack isn't the basestealer he once was either. surely, the game has changed, but when he was stealing 50+ while getting caught less than 10 times with pittsburgh, that was an asset. he stole 26 and got caught 5 times last year, a very good percentage. but it's not as significant considering he has trouble getting on base to begin with.

    miguel cairo has a year playing in NYC already, has similar stats, hitting and fielding, as womack, probably would have costed about the same, but is 4 years younger. :rolleyes:

    yanks are also not gonna get away with giambi. at least i hope so. it was their reckless signing and i think they should be held responsible for it. trying to terminate it because of steroids is pretty low class. if he was hitting 50 HRs and scoring 140 RBIs, they would have defended him. just because now they realize they made a huge mistake in signing him to such a big deal, they want to use steroids as an excuse to get rid of him.
     
  8. aloofman macrumors 68020

    aloofman

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Location:
    Socal
    #8

    The most interesting baseball quote I've heard the last few months was Jeter being asked how the current Yankees were different than their last title team in 2000. He said it's a completely different team and shook his head. Sounds like a guy who knows this "buy a few annual mercenaries" method will yield diminishing returns. It could still buy a championship, but it takes a lot more money that way.

    As a Dodger fan, I've been frustrated the last several weeks by their lack of progress. The rotation is paper-thin, Meltdown Bradley is a real headache, and Ricky Ledee ain't the answer. I console myself knowing that Home DePo is a pretty smart guy and would rather make no moves at all than a bad move. And there's the fact that the insane contracts of Darren Dreifort and Shawn Green will finally end a year from now, freeing up a lot more money. That makes me feel good about the future, but doesn't help that much now.

    I hear that Steve Finley is being offered ridiculous money from other teams, so he won't be back. I was intrigued by the idea of signing Varitek, but he costs too much now. Supposedly the Dodgers are still in the running for Randy Johnson, but I kind of doubt that Arizona will deal more players to us. And they are allegedly in on the Beltran sweepstakes, but DePo doesn't seem spend-happy enough to compete with the Yankees.

    I'm very interested to see what Bonds does this year. One the one hand, he's proven in the past that he is very good at ignoring criticism and channeling his energy into hitting, so all this turmoil may just motivate him. But if he has to get off the juice, his offense could tail off. Of course, that could happen anyway, since age has to catch up with him eventually. Anything that hurts the Giants is fine with me!
     
  9. jxyama thread starter macrumors 68040

    jxyama

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    #9
    i hear ya and i think your faith in depo is a pretty good one. he's a smart guy and knows what he's doing, just like theo in boston. i think LA will be quite good for a long time.

    dreifort is probably one of the biggest busts ever. green actually was pretty good for a few years, but deifort... nothing but trouble. and guess what? yanks got about 4 or 5 players on their roster with similar under-achievement and huge salaries. :D
     
  10. Koodauw macrumors 68040

    Koodauw

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Location:
    Madison
    #10
    I dont think anyone dissagrees with that. The group from 96-2001 was a solid group of players that had worked together for sometime, and had learned how to play "Yankee Baseball"

    But George is in a tough position right now. he has Nothing in the farm system, so his only option is to go out and Spend big dollars. Hes also over bearing. Brian Cashman was the engineer of that great run of championships, and yet he is the only GM in the league who doesnt have finaly say over the deals.

    But you are correct, this team is nothing like the teams when The Yankees were making their string of WS.
     
  11. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #11
    I just read this morning that Finley was not offered arbitration by the Dodgers, so he won't be back. He evidently wanted a three-year contract, which I'd be surprised a guy his age would get from anyone. Even more disappointing was the Dodgers not offering arbitration to Jose Lima. The fans really learned to love that guy, and for good reason. The clubhouse just won't be the same without him. They've got to get Beltre signed now and I have to wonder if they're going to be willing to part with the big bucks he'll demand.
     
  12. emw macrumors G4

    emw

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    #12
    I was surprised that the Cubs are holding onto Garciapara, given all of the trade talk. I also think they'll be stuck with Sammy next year, too bad for them.

    Not a Cubs fan, but impossible to ignore them living in Chicago...
     
  13. jxyama thread starter macrumors 68040

    jxyama

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    #13
    phillies just gave lieber the same deal as the one yankees gave wright. so maybe wright's deal isn't as ridiculous or both phillies and yanks are out of their minds.

    (probably the latter... since when does a recovering 35 year old pitcher receives a three year offer?)

    lieber was recovering from an injury, recovery from which is more predictable than one from an early career meltdown suffered by wright. in any case, wright is younger, so perhaps he has slightly higher ceiling...
     
  14. jasylonian macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Location:
    sacramento
    #14
    As much as I hate the Yankees, I think they've finally figured it out. It looks as if they never want to worry about pitching again by signing Wright, Milton, and Pavano. Now that the Yankee's farm system (read Expos) has dried up, it looks like they have found new sources for young arms. Javier Vazquez had a flukey bad year under the lights of Yankee Stadium and I don't care what anybody says because I still think he is a silly good pitcher. The Red Sox have done a whole lot of nothing, so there's not a lot of room for me to make fun of them, especially after the whole winning the World Series thing. All I've got to say about Boston is, "Nomar loves Chicago!" I'm first and foremost an A's fan, but the Cubs are more interesting in the offseason because they do things. If Hudson gets moved, I may weep openly. It's rather upsetting being an A's fan because all the players you actually care about keep leaving. From here on out, I'm just rooting for Eric Byrnes. He isn't going anywhere.
     
  15. aloofman macrumors 68020

    aloofman

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Location:
    Socal
    #15
    Team owners always have the final say over player transactions. Steinbrenner is unique in that he often acts as his own GM too.
     
  16. aloofman macrumors 68020

    aloofman

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Location:
    Socal
    #16
    I think both of these moves are understandable. Finley had a very good season, but is a major injury risk because of his age. DePodesta has made clear that he will not take on the risks that the previous administration did on long-term contracts for players that could miss a lot of time. Although Finley seems to be in great shape and it seems like we're always saying that this will be his 'last good year.'

    As for Lima, although he's popular, his record is much better than his performance would suggest. He allowed a lot more baserunners than his ERA would suggest, which implies that he was more lucky than good. (Not including that playoff start where he really dominated St. Louis.) Lima is older and wants a big raise. It's more likely that he will revert to the form that put him in the minors, rather than have an ERA of 4.00 or less again. Plus, some of his teammates might worry about getting herpes. :D He is a very entertaining guy though.
     
  17. Laslo Panaflex macrumors 65816

    Laslo Panaflex

    Joined:
    May 1, 2003
    Location:
    Tokyo
    #17
    I was at that game, it was that most exciting game I have ever been to. I don't think that I sat down in my seat once, and there was constant cheering. Good times. :D
     
  18. djbahdow01 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Location:
    Northeast, CT
    #18
    Olerud won't be going back to the Yanks as he wasn't offered arbitration therfore cutting ties with the Yanks. They wouldn't be able to sign him till May 1st, meaning partly into the season.

    As for the Sox just ready they offered arbitration to the few they needed to and look like they are signing Matt Mantei to a contract to setup for foulke.
     
  19. jasylonian macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Location:
    sacramento
    #19
    how are his fingernails?
     
  20. djbahdow01 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Location:
    Northeast, CT
    #20
    Whose fingernails??
     
  21. jasylonian macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Location:
    sacramento
    #21
    mantei's. he misses games because he keeps splitting fingernails.
     
  22. jxyama thread starter macrumors 68040

    jxyama

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    #22
    more moves as the GM meeting takes place...

    diamondbacks found some cash, i have no clue from where, and signed glaus and ortiz. i think the deals are too big/good for the players they are getting. i think they want to show the big unit how they are serious about winning, but overpaying two (mostly) overrated players probably isn't the way to go. they will run out of money (they already were before these deals) and turn into the 49er's of MLB...

    boston got wells and yanks are about to sign pavano. wells is definitely a gamble, but it's only a one year deal, so i think it my be ok. there's a lot of talk about him fitting in well in the clubhouse - i'm not so sure. there are some strange guys in the boston clubhouse, but i feel like wells is just a maniac for his own sake. i have no clue how he'll fit in. boston looks likey they overpaid for him (esp. in the light of pavano signing, see below) but one year deals won't have lasting consequences, so that's good.

    yanks getting pavano is a great deal, at less than $10 mil. per year for four years. pavano is more of a sure deal for yanks than wright. his numbers have been getting better and better the last few years and he looks to be coming into his prime. however, the same thing was said about vazquez last winter too... if yankees get milton, as rumored, their rotation will once again be very, very good on paper. their bullpen, however, hasn't gotten much better, though.

    since sox made it fairly clear they aren't interested in lowe, pavano signing basically means pedro is coming back. he probably realizes that sox is the place to stay, but wanted to fish around for better deals. unless he wants to be a met (unlikely, given what he said about wanting to remain a sox and also, their team strengths), he pretty much knows sox is now the only option left.

    sox is also looking at renteria. i don't see much difference between cabrera and renteria, so paying a lot more for renteria may not be a great idea. (renteria is a better offensive player, but given sox's firepower in power positions, a power SS isn't really necessary?) however, if varitek leaves, sox will probably need renteria. it would be ironic for sox to sign the last player to make an out that delivered the world series to the sox...

    i'm also curious how mientkiewicz will be used. kapler is gone, so it's conceivable to switch between him and millar at 1B and then nixon and millar in the RF. i don't think mientkiewicz will be willing to be a defensive backup forever. he was a #3 hitter in minnesota, afterall...
     
  23. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    #23
    They got rid of Mantei, plus the money they didn't spend in bonus payments last year. ;)
     
  24. saabmp3 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    #24
    Mientkewicz (is that how you spell it??) was brought to the team to back up defense, not the offense. Don't evpect him to take a full time job, maybe a 50/50 split at best.

    When I saw that Pavano went to the yanks, my heart dropped. He was really promising and I'm sick of seeing these guys go to the yanks and end up killing us. I love Pedro, but we need some fountain of youth in our rotation. They're going to start growing grey hair soon.

    I trust Theo in the rest. I just really wish Schilling could have convinced Pavano to come to us. I'm sure we could have payed him the same.

    BEN
     
  25. jasylonian macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Location:
    sacramento
    #25
    dodgers picked up tim hudson from the a's for edwin jackson and antonio perez. good trade for the dodgers; unfortunate, but ultimately good trade for the a's as well.

    the d-backs have a new ownership group which has been fund-raising in the community and apparently has picked up gobs of cash, which explains their recent spending spree. if i can find the link to the article, i'll post it.

    the cubs keeping nomar was a great move for the cubs, because they keep him for $8m unless he has a studly, dependable season and first crack at signing him to a long term contract next offseason if he's healthy. meanwhile, sosa is still a clubhouse cancer, but possibly one that might go back to hitting 40 hr's in a season if he stops being a headcase (watch how far he stands off the plate).

    this offseason player movement watching is addictive. i need to stop. i literally spent two hours refreshing the same screen every 2 minutes when i heard that huddy was moved. so much for my final papers.

    edit: here's the link: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1943741
     

Share This Page