Mom Convicted In Son's Suicide

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by wdlove, Oct 7, 2003.

  1. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    Oct 20, 2002
    #1
  2. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

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    #2
    i would agree, i can understand people pushing someone around who smells and looks like s***. So i agree the mom is partly responsible, she should have cared more for her son.

    iJon
     
  3. topicolo macrumors 68000

    topicolo

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    #3
    What a worthless mother. I hope she gets the full sentence. The mother is definitely responsible for some of the blame.
     
  4. tazo macrumors 68040

    tazo

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    Pacific Northwest, Seattle, WA actually
    #4
    some?

    all....
     
  5. microrario macrumors member

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    Sep 20, 2003
    #5
    They don't even mention the father...it could be partly his fault. It's not always the women to blame you know...
     
  6. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

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    #6
    they probably didnt mention him because he probably isnt around.

    iJon
     
  7. Dros macrumors 6502

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    Jun 25, 2003
    #7
    I think "all" the blame is a little harsh. That would imply that a dirty house causes suicide. I think that the mother must have serious problems of her own if the house was like that. And now she has lost a child. Punishment enough. Everyone is piling on her, while the bullies are just considered a natural course of events when someone stinks? Sad world. The bullies take most of the blame, I think.
     
  8. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

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    Feb 7, 2002
    #8
    yeah its true, bullies are a big problem. but they specifically said they were making fun of him because he smelled bad and looked like s***. im not going to lie, if i saw someone walking down my hall that looked like they came from a trash can i would make jokes too, but never directly at him, just behind his back. but thats beyond the point. its been proven that a good living enviroment helps with motivation and and all that stuff. if i cam home to a house that icouldnt walk in and everything is a mess i will probably feel more depressed. its the exact same reason its a great feeeling when i come home and my maid has cleaned my room, just a nice feeling. this mom was obviously not fit to be a mother, and she lost a child to it, which is terrible but it was bad parenting on her part for not making her child presentable for school.

    iJon
     
  9. Dros macrumors 6502

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    Jun 25, 2003
    #9
    So maybe we should all be evaluated on our home environment and those in below average homes, say, without maids, could be briefly jailed for an amount of time that reflects the amount of filth.

    The things said about motivation could be true. But unless you believe the above scenario, I don't see how punishing the mother is a just reaction to that statement.

    The bullies gave a reason why they bullied him. The bullying was still wrong. The kid was 12.
     
  10. topicolo macrumors 68000

    topicolo

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    #10
    So were the bullies, most likely.
    Think back to when you were 12 years old. If some lanky kid that had horrible breath and smelled terrible was in your class, would you say terrible things to him? I fairly sure that a lot of people would have.

    The fact of the matter is, the father should share some of the blame too. So maybe he wasn't around, but that may just be reason enough for precipitating the entire unfortunate series of events. Still, I think the kid wasn't mainly to blame--he wasn't brought up correctly and he lived a tortured life because of it. This would've been preventable if he had proper parenting.
     
  11. groovebuster macrumors 65816

    groovebuster

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    #11
    Guys, you have pretty radical opinions in here... it's pretty scary.

    Actually, if the mom is a "messy", she is a victim herself. People like that are mentally ill and need serious psychological and therapeutical help. They don't do that on purpose, it's a kind of bad neurosis!

    It would have been way better to look after kids like that before they kill themselves and to help the family than just blaiming everything on the mom now. People like that can't help themselves, they need help from outside.

    In my opinion it is redicolous that she will be sentenced for being mentally ill...

    Think about it guys...

    groovebuster

    P.S.: And I find it very sad, that some people in here admitted to joke about fellows like that. Being shocked or disturbed is one thing, but making fun without knowing the circumstances is not something I would "brag" about...
     
  12. caveman_uk Guest

    caveman_uk

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    Hitchin, Herts, UK
    #12
    Why does everyone have to have someone to blame? Doesn't personal responsibility come into this? The kid killed himself. No-one killed him. If he had a problem he should have spoken to someone about it.

    Ten years for this? Hasn't she been punished enough - her kid is dead.
     
  13. mac15 macrumors 68040

    mac15

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    #13
    why can't the kid have a shower? take some action
     
  14. mymemory macrumors 68020

    mymemory

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    Miami
    #14
    Because he was a kid!!! most of the parents take little actions about thier sons problems. Whe you are a kid there is nothing more important than you parents aceptance, they are the ones that feed you, the ones that talk to you, the ones person you know in this world, "the ones with the experience".

    I think it is right to do something about that mother because it si a common thing in this world to see kids unatended. Most of the parents resolves everything with money, thy buy you the computer, the bicycle, etc.

    She has to be punishe because the kid was her responsability, if she didn't care about him she could give him for adoption.

    I'm sure that many people here would be reconsidering if it was a Mac that got damage.
     
  15. groovebuster macrumors 65816

    groovebuster

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    #15
    Again: the mother probably is mentally ill! How do you know that she didn't care for the kid?

    No reason to be cynical...

    groovebuster
     
  16. crap freakboy macrumors 6502a

    crap freakboy

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    nar in Gainsborough, me duck
    #16
    OMG!
    tragic...but a twelve year old does have self will, a personal choice....even my 2 year old is currently showing her enormous capacity for deciding how, what and when she does anything.
    Granted the house itself does sound like a pigsty, but surely 99% of the blame falls at the feet of the bullys and the boy himself, peer pressure counts for more at that age rather than parental pressure.
    Sad story nevertheless, but kneejerk reactions like some of the posts above ...tut tut:rolleyes:
     
  17. caveman_uk Guest

    caveman_uk

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    #17
    She didn't give a damn about how her house was. You don't know how she treated her child - she might have really loved him. You don't know.

    So you reckon that every parent who's kids kill themselves should be punished? Locked up? Because they 'obviously' didn't love their children enough?
     
  18. Abraxsis macrumors 6502

    Abraxsis

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    Kentucky
    #18
    Well seeing I have a degree in Sociology and Psychology Im really interested in this article. From the Psychological perspective I feel the kid probably exhibited signs of depression prior to the event. If the mother seen or, more so, recognized these signs then maybe she should be held accountable more than an average person would. Two I would have to wonder about her own upbrings, perhaps she lived like she did not because she was a bad mother but because she was a victim of her own environment.
    And now from the sociological perspective. Where the hell is our society heading that 12 year olds are killing themselves, and 12 years are bullying others to the point where they do kill themselves? If you ask me society is using this woman as a scapegoat fro its own crimes. Where do the parents of the bullies play into this, why aren't they being punished for not teaching their kids better?? And the school, where is the school responisbility in all this? If the kid stank all the time why didnt they call child services??? Personally, from my experience and my education, I feel this sets a dangerous precidence in our legal systems. How is the government going to operationally define cleanliness??? Seriously, its rediculous. Yes, its sad that this young man killed himself, but nothing can be done for him now, so maybe we should be looking for the roots of the problem as a whole, and not a scapegoat to lay our own shortcomings on.


    PS: I give it two months before a higher court with some sense overturns this, or reduces it.
     
  19. Dros macrumors 6502

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    Jun 25, 2003
    #19
    It seems obvious to us. The kid was crapping himself at school to make the bullies go away. That is a situation that a simple shower and haircut isn't going to fix.

    I think everyone agrees the mother was wrong to have a filthy house, wrong to not figure out something terrible was happening to her son. But to me, punishment requires some malice or purposefulness on her part. She was just messed up. There are people like that. Some people don't want to deal with that fact and just say, "I would never allow my child to be filthy, lock her up". I think, "We have a society that is caring, and should be noticing that something was wrong, and figured out someway to help, or at worst, remove the child from an unsafe place".

    Meanwhile, the bullies involved, unless they are identified and taught that violence is wrong, are going to grow up to be like the high school football players that were shoving pine cones up younger player's a**es as part of the fun hazing rituals they enjoy.
     
  20. wdlove thread starter macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    Oct 20, 2002
    #20
    I actually had a class mate during elementary and high school with body odor. Didn't know anything about his home life. I don't really remember anyone in my class picking on him. Everyone just tended to stay away from him.
     
  21. Abraxsis macrumors 6502

    Abraxsis

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    Kentucky
    #21
    Exactly, its called mens rea which is latin for "guilty mind". It is one of the writs that must be proven to accuse someone of a crime.

    All modern day Criminologists (a sub-section of sociology) agree that four things must be present for a cime to be commited.

    No crime without intent
    No crime without capacity
    No crime without law/government
    No crime without punishment
     
  22. topicolo macrumors 68000

    topicolo

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    Ottawa, ON
    #22
    You can say that now, from your mature perspective of the situation, but in reality, 12 year old kids aren't guaranteed to act in any mature manner.
    The fact that wdlove said that his old classmates also made fun of a kid with bad body odor just accentuates that point. To those 12 year old bullies, ridiculing the kid was a good boost to their own self esteem. It sounds barbaric to us now, but it is a fact of life for many children.
     
  23. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

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    Feb 7, 2002
    #23
    i agree, i made fun of people at that age, but i dont think i ever did it their face, just behind their back when they werent looking.

    iJon
     
  24. King Cobra macrumors 603

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    Mar 2, 2002
    #24
    I think I like caveman's take in the situation...

    The boy had a responsibility for what he wanted to do. Yet I know of (not personally) individuals with even tougher young lives than he had. Yes, much worse than the bullying, much worse than a smelly house. The person I'm talking about didn't kill herself...

    If anyone has watched Homeless To Harvard, or has heard the many experiences of Liz Murray, that person clearly knows what I am talking about.

    My opinion of the situation is and will be: The boy refused to accept the benefits he could have had from what would have been a much more successful future. I guarentee you if he was being "picked on" the way he was, nearly all of the teachers at his elementary would know about it and contact his mother. If the mother was not willing to change, then the teachers could have provided extra aid/assistance. And let me ask: Does anyone know exactly how much willingness he had for a successful future before he felt so critically traumatized? He ruined it for himself.

    As for who to blame . . . (blank)
     
  25. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    Los Angeles
    #25

    So if some kid gets picked on at school because his parents' won't buy him $125 sneakers and the latest trendly clothes they should be help responsible if he kills himself? Should the parents' of minors who die in alcohol or drug related incidents be crimminally charged because they *obviously* didn't do enough to keep their kids away from drugs and alcohol? Must there always be someone else to blame? Has personal accountabiliy gone completely out the window?

    Now, if due to the uncleanliness of the house he caught some sort of illness and died from it that would be one thing. But he killed himself because kids at school picked on him. Kids get picked on for how they look, how they dress, do they have glasses, braces, what music they like, etc.,. Where do we draw the line?

    I remember being 12. I remember taking showers and brushing my teeth w/o my parents telling me to. I think 12 is a reasonable age to expect someone to practice personal hygiene. I started regularly doing chores around the house when I was 9 or 10 and was baby/house/pet setting in my neighborhood by the time I was 12. The kid coulda cleaned up the house.


    Lethal
     

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