monster cable surge protector

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by puckhead193, Nov 7, 2009.

  1. macrumors G3

    puckhead193

    Joined:
    May 25, 2004
    Location:
    NY
    #1
    I'm at home watching TV and all of a sudden my TV goes out and my monster surge protect is making a terrible noise. Did it blow? My tv/cable box etc won't turn on...
     
  2. macrumors 6502a

    Corrode

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    #2
    Try plugging the TV directly into the socket?

    I always thought those Monster Surge protectors were a ripoff and a scam when you can buy a no name brand one with surge protection for under $20. I wonder if yours just paid off?!?
     
  3. macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Location:
    Whitehouse, OH
    #3
    Sounds to me like it might have done its job.
     
  4. macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Location:
    Whitehouse, OH
    #4
    I'm not going to disagree with you on this one... In my experience the monster ones tend to sacrifice themselves in an effort to save the devices attached to it.
     
  5. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    #5
    Your observation verses my decades of design experience? Which one knows?

    The surge confronts the appliance and surge protector equally. All appliances contain protection. A surge too small to overwhelm protection inside the appliance easily destroys your Monster Cable protector? You call that protection?

    That's the scam that gets the naive to recommend a protector. Take a $3 power strip. Add some ten cent protector parts and some fancy paint. Sell it for $60 or $150. Why do TV salesmen spend so much time selling the protector? They know where the profit lies. It’s not a protector for protection. It’s a protector for profits. It is recommended by a majority only because retail sales promote it and because an overwhelming majority have never heard of the 'whole house' protector.

    How has protection been done for over 100 years? The concept used in 'whole house' protectors. What will magically stop what three miles of sky could not? Monster. Monster has a long history of selling scam - including speaker wire with polarity. Monster was selling $7 speaker wire for $70 because they claimed speaker wire has polarity and their wire had that polarity marked. And many also recommended that Monster speaker wire - using the same logic that promotes their protector.

    The only effective protector make a short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to single point earth ground. Monster even avoids discussing that. Why should they. Monster is not selling to this engineer with decades of design knowledge. Monster is selling to those who used hearsay and speculation to convert assumptions into fact. A $3 power strip with some ten cent protector parts sells for $150. And it does not even claim to provide protection in its numeric specs. No problem. The least informed always ignore the numbers. Assume it is more expensive; therefore must be better. Scam.
     
  6. thread starter macrumors G3

    puckhead193

    Joined:
    May 25, 2004
    Location:
    NY
    #6
    So i was going to go best buy to buy a new one, any recommendations of other brands?
     
  7. macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Location:
    Whitehouse, OH
    #7
    I'm confused; what are we arguing about? I thought I agreed with you. :confused:
     
  8. macrumors 65816

    skye12

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2006
    Location:
    Austin, Tx
    #8
    Kind of funny argument about the three miles of sky. Sounds like
    you do not believe in the concept of a surge protector. Well, they do work.
    Just like circuit breakers work.

    Monster stuff is expensive, but they do use good materials. Their basic surge units aren't that overpriced. I got one at Amazon for around $35.
    The hdmi cables are the obscene ripoff, when you can get
    superb ones at places like monoprice.com for a fraction of the price.
     
  9. macrumors 68040

    RedTomato

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2005
    Location:
    .. London ..
    #9
    I dislike Monster on general principles. They're the same as the guys that sell wooden stereo knobs that enhance your sound for $150. Real high-end electrical products have proper engineering information and specs on them available. Monster don't.

    You seem like you know what you're talking about. What other surge protectors do you recommend? What about these of use who can't install whole-house protectors?
     
  10. macrumors 68030

    CylonGlitch

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Location:
    SoCal
    #10
    Sorry, but you blew it when you purchased something that says "Monster" on it. Seriously, what everyone else is staying is true. They are no better then anything else out there, and often are actually worse. :(

    Any of the surge protectors will work.
     
  11. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
    #11
    Unfortunately this has been my experience too. For many reasons I don't touch Monster. Terrible company.
     
  12. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    #12
    At what point do you first ask some embarrassing questions. Such as what does it do and how does it do it? What does it actually claim to do in numbers - the manufacturer's numeric specs?

    These are damning questions that show why an overwhelming majority are blindly paying so much for a scam.

    A protector circuit sold by Monster Cable for $150 is the same circuit found in the grocery store protector selling for $7. They both have the same quality. But one has the massive profit margin. And because it sells for so much more (and has fancier paint), then many recommend the Monster - using the exact same logic that proved Saddam had WMDs.

    Again, what does it do. Where are the numbers? Where is the numeric spec that says what it actually does? Damning questions that an overwhelming majority never ask since eyes often glaze over as soon as numbers appear. Not an exaggeration. Seven out of ten have glazed eyes as soon as numbers appear. Which is why scams work so profitably.

    What does a protector do? From the NIST (US government research agency):
    > You cannot really suppress a surge altogether, nor "arrest" it. What these protective
    > devices do is neither suppress nor arrest a surge, but simply divert it to ground,
    > where it can do no harm.


    What does Monster get recommended for? Stopping, block, arresting, suppressing, or absorbing surges. That cannot happen. But subjective claims from Monster are enough for a majority to believe Monster and to ignore the NIST.

    The NIST then describes the Monster Cable:
    > A very important point to keep in mind is that your surge protector will work by
    > diverting the surges to ground. The best surge protection in the world can be
    > useless if grounding is not done properly.

    Monster Cable has no earth ground.

    Earth ground is the only effective solution. No way around that requirement. Those who cannot hand that 'whole house' protector to the landlord and have it installed are mostly screwed.

    However one can kludge a 'whole house' protector. Buy a plug-in protector with the largest number of joules. Cut that six foot power cord as short as possible. Find the AC receptacle closest to the breaker box. Pray that the breaker box earthing exists and is short to earth ground. Plug that modified protector into that closest receptacle. Move electronics to receptacles farthest from breaker box (that separation enhances protection).

    Hopefully the kludge will earth more of a surge through the earth ground. Hopefully the separation from protector and appliance is far enough to encourage that surge to seek the earthing electrode - not seek earth destructively via electronics.

    But again, it is a kludge with all the compromises and risks associate with kludges. It may or may not protect from typically destructive surges if the ground is short enough (and exists). However destructive surges occur typically once every seven years. A number that can vary significantly even in the same town.

    See the numbers? Notice what does not come with plug-in protector recommendations - numbers. Even the kludge is about numbers.

    What do cable companies recommend? Not using that protector on their cable. It diminishes signals and does not provide effective protection. It may even earth a surge destructively through the nearby TV. Cable companies earth their cable where it enters the building. Earthing that is only as good as what you provided. Earthing that means no TV damage even from direct lightning strikes - if every incoming utility wire is earthed short to that single point ground.

    And yes, we still build new homes as if the transistor did not exist. The principles have been well proven by over 100 years of science and experience. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
     
  13. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    #13
    This is Gods way of punishing you for wasting your money on a Monster Cable product which have been proven over and over again to have the exact same quality as a other products.

    Monster Cable HDMI Cable = $129.
    Monoprice HDMI Cable = $8.99
    Knowing I didn't get ripped off - Priceless.
     
  14. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    #14
    Where did I say we disagreed?

    Fundamental to any useful discussion: many technical reasons why must be provided. That was the lesson from history - Saddam's WMDs. So many ‘knew’ without any reasons why and without any numbers.

    Useful answer on surge protection involves reams and layers of facts with numbers.

    Obvious if using numbers - circuit breakers do not provide surge protection. Any protector that fails during a surge does not provide effective protection. Monster Cable (like Belkin, APC, Tripplite, and others featuring the same protector circuit) does not even claim to provide that protection. See its spec numbers. Will it somehow stop what three miles of sky could not (which is what a circuit breaker would have to do)? That 'stopping' is what myths claim. So the manufacturer provides no numbers - does not even claim that protection.

    How to identify each ineffective protector. 1) No dedicated wire for that short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to earth. 2) Manufacturer avoids all discussion about earthing. Monster Cable fails both requirements. But then its purpose is not surge protection. Purpose is profits.

    An effective 'whole house' protector (Cutler-Hammer) sells in Lowes for less than $50. Other responsible companies selling effective solutions include General Electric, Siemens, ABB, Intermatic, Leviton, Kieson, Clipsal, and Square D.
     
  15. macrumors 68000

    hitekalex

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    #15
    I would say any brand that doesn't contain the word "Monster" would be a good start!
     
  16. macrumors 68020

    killerrobot

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Location:
    127.0.0.1
    #16
    If you bought the surge protector within the last two or three years, I'd call monster and ask for a replacement first. If that doesn' work, I've always preferred APC. No matter what brand it is, make sure it has a built-in circuit breaker and a high Joule rating if you have very expensive equipment plugged into it.
     
  17. macrumors 6502a

    Corrode

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    #17
    Well it seems that westcom is just full of information, but unfortunately it seems that he's spent most of his life learning about surge protectors and nothing about social skills. Who has time to read that novel he posted above?

    I'm still wondering (as I'm sure the OP is) what would be the best bang for buck surge protector to purchase.

    That's when you disagreed.
     
  18. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    #18
    The same protector circuit in the Monster Cable is also sold in APC, Belkin, and Tripplite. View their numeric specs. Each has the same protection specs as the Monster - does not list numbers for protection from each type of surge. Each is equivalent to a protector selling at a profit for $7 at the grocery store. Monster simply saw a scam and then charged even more for the same protector.

    Again, how to identify the ineffective protector. 1) Has no dedicated wire for that short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to earth. 2) Manufacturer avoids all discussion about earth ground. APC, Belkin, Tripplite, and the $7 grocery store protector also meet every requirement.

    Even the NIST describes those APC, et al protectors:
    > A very important point to keep in mind is that your surge protector will work by
    > diverting the surges to ground. The best surge protection in the world can be
    > useless if grounding is not done properly.

    Those joules in the APC, et al are just too small to stop or absorb surges. The effective protector connects energy into earth. Energy dissipated in earth does not seek earth ground destructively via household appliances. What Sun Microsystems define for effective protection? From Sun's installation guide:
    > Section 6.4.7 Lightning Protection:
    > Lightning surges cannot be stopped, but they can be diverted. The
    > plans for the data center should be thoroughly reviewed to identify
    > any paths for surge entry into the data center. Surge arrestors ...
    > should divert the power of the surge by providing a path to ground
    > for the surge energy.

    Every facility that must never suffer damage does not waste money on Monster Cable, APC, Belkin, Tripplite, etc. Instead, one 'whole house' protector with proper earthing is installed. Effective protector for about $1 per protected appliance. Did you know your telco installed a 'whole house' protector on everyone's phone line where their wire enters your building? Why? So effective while costing so little money.

    No way around this well proven, 100 plus year technology. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
     
  19. macrumors 6502a

    mward333

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2004
    #19
    I'll put in another vote for monoprice.com. If people haven't bought their cables at monoprice.com in the past, it is worth a look. They are great.
     
  20. macrumors 604

    chrono1081

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Location:
    Isla Nublar
    #20
    I have to agree Monster is a pure scam company.

    Years ago I worked at Circuit City and the monster reps ensured the store would set up phony displays showing "monster cables" vs "regular cables" but the "regular cables" were always either a different type of cable (composite instead of component) or such a horrible cable that it lost signal going through it. I was floored the first time I saw this scam.

    Monster just makes up ******** and tech jargon to sound good to buyers. If you could see what the store pays for those $150 monster power strips (Roughly $14) you'd realize how much of a ripoff that company is.
     
  21. macrumors 68000

    hitekalex

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    #21
    Not to mention, this is a company that engages in frivolous law suites against small businesses. They sued a small company called "Monster Golf" for trademark infringement.

    Engadget has a long standing boycott on Monster Cable products.. and I strongly encourage everyone to join it.
     
  22. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    #22
    As other stated, forego getting Monster again. Of note is that almost any major brand of surge protector has an equipment warranty so that if it fails, they will replace any equipment that gets fried.

    I'd personally recommend the Belkin Conserve, which I reviewed on Amazon here:
    http://www.amazon.com/review/RACQ8Z6TK9IRJ/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm

    In addition to being a great surge protector, it has an RF remote switch that allows you to cut its power without having to be close to the power strip itself. This lets you reduce standby power usage (devices draw power even when "off") when you're not using your equipment. I estimated that it could save me something like $50 a year in electricity costs (not to mention pollution saved) when I measured my standby power usage, so the thing pays for itself and then some in the first year if you use it right.
     
  23. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    #23
    A well proven trend observed in free markets. A larger warranty implies a worse product. GM is currently hyping a 5 years 100,000 mile warranty. Therefore GM cars are superior to Honda and Toyota? That is your reasoning.

    Instead, read the fine print in that Belkin warranty. It is so chock full of exemptions as to not be honored. But then Belkin is not selling an effective protector. View its numeric specs. It does not even claim protection from the typically destructive surge currents. It is a profit center that works when so many *know* it must be better - and do not post even one numbers to back up that claim.

    But again, a big buck warranty implies is it the worst product. Or we can learn from other's experiences. Newsman on 10 Sept 2002 in the newsgroup alt.video.ptv.tivo entitled "SONY TiVo SVR-2000"
    > I got a Belkin surge protector with phone line protection soley for Tivo purposes.
    > Yet my Tivo's modem still failed. And the '$20,000 connected devices warranty'
    > did not help me. I jumped through many hoops, including finding the original
    > recept for the surge protector (just under a year old) and I sent my surge protector
    > to Belkin (paid for shipping), and was denied my warranty. They gave me a ton of
    > crap, including that it was null and void b/c the Tivo was also connected to the coax
    > line for cable (this was not mentioned as a thing in the warranty that can nullify it).
    > Eventually it boiled down to a line in the warranty that said "Belkin at it's sole
    > discretion can reject any claim for any reason".

    Only proof of effective protection is numeric specs. And principles well proven for over 100 years. The Belkin 1) has no dedicated connection short to earth. 2) Belkin avoids all discussion about earthing. The Belkin is ineffective protection twice over. So they hype a big buck warranty so that the naive (those who don't always demand spec numbers) will recommend it.

    Belkin provides the same protection hyped by Monster Cable. Complete with no tech specs that list protection from each type of surge. Monster could not let Belkin reap all the profits. Monster craved that action. Reality did not change. No matter how many times this is posted, some still recommend protector that completely violate this principles: A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
     
  24. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    #24
    Respectfully, I said that EVERY major brand has a warranty and said nothing about specific manufacturers' warranties or warranty amounts (I don't even know what they are). Furthermore, I don't buy your rant. The anecdote you provided presents a good point to be aware of: that you should buy a surge protector with coax surge protection if you're connected to a cable line in one way or another. No surge protector is able to save your equipment if there's an unprotected surge in the coax line (and frankly, as much as I hate companies who dodge warranty replacements, Belkin had a pretty good case in the instance you mentioned as they explicitly state "the coaxial cable line must also be properly connected and installed" to the surge protector).

    Neither does any plug-in surge protector on the market that I know of. Surge protectors with earthing wires are typically designed to protect your whole home, and are installed at your circuit breaker and hooked up to your wiring instead of your electrical outlets. Your suggestion is worth considering, but it's not really a knock against Belkin, per se.

    Besides, take a deep breath, I'm simply providing a friendly recommendation on a surge protector that I measured (with a Kill A Watt) would personally save me about $50 a year in energy savings! Feel free to recommend whatever model you will. I'm perfectly comfortable hooking my $3000 worth of equipment up to the Conserve, which I'll add was Popular Mechanics Editor's Choice in 2008.

    The gist of my recommendations, however, is I'd consider a power-saving surge protector if you're going to buy a new one. It's better for your wallet and the environment.

    Belkin's Conserve has a remote RF switch that you can mount anywhere, while some other manufacturers' products like the "SmartStrip" automatically turn peripherals off completely when it detects the main device shuts off (e.g. if you shut your TV off, the power strip will turn off the outlets to your cable box and game system so they don't unnecessarily draw standby power).
     
  25. macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    #25
    All homes, especially those in areas where trees fall on the lines, should have this. They aren't that expensive.

    A cheap plug-in protector did save my TV from a nasty surge that wiped out some other unprotected stuff. It fried solid and stank, but it stopped the surge. So, I have to say the circuit-breaker designs do work even if they aren't grounded.

    I know all about the Monster discussion, but bought a Monster protector for my HT system. It is well-made and nicely designed with lots of outlets that can actually be accessed. Seems like a good $35 device.

    Monster stuff doesn't give you an advantage over other products that actually work, but their products do seem to be sturdy and well-made. For this you pay.
     

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