Moore sues Bertuzzi

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by XNine, Feb 16, 2006.

  1. XNine macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
    #1
  2. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #2
    That was the mother of all cheap shots...way below the already the low standards the NHL observe for this sort of behavior.

    I have to wonder whether this suit really wasn't timed to coincide with Bertuzzi's Olympic participation, as the lawyers claim.
     
  3. XNine thread starter macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #3
    Yeah, I don't think it matters. I know most people (except for Vancouver fans, but even some of them) hate Bertuzzi. I mean, he's just a giant, lumbering buffoon out there. Can't skate well, can't shoot well, he's just there to be another obstacle on the ice.

    The mere fact that he's on Canada's Olympic team pisses me off. Hopefully Sakic puts hot sauce in the guy's jock strap.
     
  4. Spaceman Spiff macrumors regular

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    #4
    First of all, I have serious doubts that you are familiar with what motivated Bertuzzi, though you may be well acquainted with the assault itself. It in no ways justifies what he did, but know that he didn't just decide one day to go break someone's neck for kicks.

    Two, Onizuka, he was actually a good player before the incident, but his spirit seems completely broken afterwards. Judging from his play, the news reports, and first hand reports from friends who've met with him (went to dinner with him, actually), he's pretty depressed and isn't into the game anymore. He's beaten himself up psychologically quite a bit after the incident, so know that he isn't sitting around grinning about what happened.

    Bertuzzi has no confidence anymore, and in a way, he is just an obstacle now. Though some like to cling to the memory of the player he used to be, nowadays he skates lazily around, he hardly ever seems to put on a burst of extra speed. Naslund is tired of the game, and Morrison was never great, just good, though he hasn't done terribly well, so Vancouver's top line is gone, and sometimes I wonder if Bertuzzi deserves to be on the team, and that we should trade him off for some defensive spark. But no one will take him but Vancouver, and he is a good player when he wants to be (game I went to vs. Detroit I think, scored a hat trick). And when I hear the boos he gets and the hatred he's receiving, I want him to get through it, because with so many people thinking he's just a big talentless mean-spirited brute with nothing to contribute to the play, at least some have to remember how he can play and what led him to do such a despicable act. And again, in no way is what he did ever justified, but given the chance to go back to that moment, I doubt Bertuzzi would do it again. Hockey's a violent sport, there's fights and there's cheap shots everywhere. Bertuzzi wanted some revenge, wanted a fight with Moore, and Moore was smart enough to stay away from him, but Bertuzzi's too much of an stupid emotional idiot to just calm down. And what Bertuzzi did was a mistake, and that mistake has cost him much. It does not equal the loss that Moore suffered, I was among those who supported Bertuzzi's suspension until Moore was able to play again. And I would be among those crying for more punishment for Bertuzzi if I hadn't followed him and known him like I did in the years before, known why he acted like he did, and heard how his spirit had completely broken. I may not entirely forgive Bertuzzi for his absolute idiocy and his absolutely despicable violence, but I forgive him enough to let him be, without booing him and denying him the opportunity to rebuild himself.
     
  5. rickvanr macrumors 68040

    rickvanr

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    #5
    Moore's a huge baby to throw this lawsuit during the olympics. People bashing Bertuzzi don't know hockey.

    I feel bad for the Moore, it was an unfortunate incident, but I hope he loses the case.
     
  6. XNine thread starter macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #6
    I know the game quite well, and saw everything leading up to it. Trust me, I would much rather be vicious enemies of the Canucks as we were with Detroit, but it's worse than that. It's become a violent hatred (like the Broncos and Raiders).

    While Bertuzzi may or may have not intended to do the damage he did, it still happened. Just because he sheds a tear and says "sorry" doesn't mean he should be allowed to play anymore. There are far better players that Team Canada could have had.

    It's an unwritten agreement that players will fight and will kick the hell out of each other. But the other part of that agreement is that you will never injure a player so he can't play anymore. Does it sometimes happen on accident? Sure. But to punch someone the way he did. That's a no-no.

    I wonder if it's strange for Sakic and Blake to be playing alongside Bertuzzi in Italy?

    Moore being a "baby" for suing someone who ruined his career? For being able to watch his brother skate in NY while he sits by? Please. He couldn't see the future and I'm sure he didn't know Bertuzzi was going to go until the rest of the world did. Let's not forget he already tried suing here in the USA, but the judge threw it out due to it being a better idea to "sue in Canada."
     
  7. rickvanr macrumors 68040

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    #7
    You don't get it. Sakic and Blake have both said playing with Bertuzzi is a none issue to them, it's not a big deal.

    What happened was not good. Bertuzzi was suspended, he served it, and he's back now. End of story.
     
  8. killuminati macrumors 68020

    killuminati

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    #8
    I don't know if you can say that, he didn't exactly get a fair punishment in my opinion. Being a Canucks and a Bertuzzi fan, I still think he should be suspended this year. Getting suspended a year when there isn't hockey is just absurd.

    But back on the original topic, I was at the game and yes it was a horrible thing he did but it's over now. IMO, people blew it way out of proportion. There's only so much Bert can do now to apologize. People really need to put this behind them and let him just continue on with his life.

    I'm really starting to get tired of people talking about this. I hope Moore loses his case. Not that I don't respect him and sympathize with him, but aargh, I'm just so damn sick of this.
     
  9. rickvanr macrumors 68040

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    #9
    There was hockey, in Europe, which he was not eligible to compete in.
     
  10. killuminati macrumors 68020

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    #10
    I know, but I think he should have been suspended from the NHL for a year.
     
  11. rickvanr macrumors 68040

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    #11
    Hockey's hockey. The European leagues are very elite.

    He was not allowed to play for over a year. Everyone else was, end of story.
     
  12. dejo Moderator

    dejo

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    #12
    Yeah, and Moore will not be able to play hockey ever again. Doesn't seem to be enough compensation. I hope he wins this lawsuit.
     
  13. rickvanr macrumors 68040

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    #13
    Says who? Lots of players come back from broken backs and necks. He's not paralyzed.
     
  14. stonyc macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Lots? Have stats to back that up?

    In any case, for the sake of arguing let's take your blanket statement at face value... if what you say is true, then it also follows that the following statement is also true:

    Lots of players don't come back from broken backs and necks.

    Also, paralysis isn't the only condition that forces players to retire. Ligament tears, concussion(s)... who's to say that the effects that Moore is suffering aren't career threatening/ending? Are you a doctor?
     
  15. rickvanr macrumors 68040

    rickvanr

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    #15
    I was talking from personal experience. I know a couple people who have broken their backs and come back to play hockey. One guy I know broke his back twice and still plays.
     
  16. stonyc macrumors 65816

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    #16
    Are they playing professional hockey? I'm not denying your statement or experience, but I question..

    1) your implication that recovery from such injuries is a common occurence

    2) the severity of those injuries... not every knee injury and not every back/spinal injury is the same, some players suffer concussions, for example and are still able to have long successful careers (Lindros) and others are forced to retire from them.

    3) your knowledge of Moore's medical condition, you can't possibly know how severe his injuries are and whether or not they are career threatening or ending. that is why I asked about whether those people you knew play professionally... if Moore is unable to recover from his injuries to a point where he can be paid for his skills, then he has suffered not only physically but then financially as well.
     
  17. rickvanr macrumors 68040

    rickvanr

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    #17
    No, but they weren't before their accidents either.

    People recover from broken backs, and spinal injuries all the time. There is a Canadian in the moguls who broke her neck last year and is back and competing in Turino.

    I'm not arguing about Moore's injury. I just don't think Bertuzzi should be sued, but then again I don't come from the sue-happy US of A.
     
  18. Abstract macrumors Penryn

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    #18
    You're obviously not a doctor.

    Each case is different. You can also say that people survive car crashes all the time, but hey, some people simply don't.
     
  19. stonyc macrumors 65816

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    #19
    Point by point...

    Well, so they didn't rely on their skills in hockey for their livelihood then.

    Like Abstract said, every injury is different... do you have Moore's medical records in front of you now? Have you been trained in medicine such that you can provide your expert opinion on the likelihood that Moore will be able to play hockey again?

    That attitude right there is why hockey will never be more than a niche sport... "Oh you don't understand the game, go away." I love hockey, I've played hockey in the past (both ice and street), and I've followed hockey for as long as I can remember... so while I can understand WHY Bertuzzi did what he did, the fact of the matter remains that he injured someone to the point where their future career is in doubt. Whether or not Bertuzzi deserves to be sued is a matter for a judge to decide.
     
  20. rickvanr macrumors 68040

    rickvanr

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    #20
    I think you've misunderstood my feelings towards this.

    They relied on their back for their livelihood, so a broken back was jut a critical in their line of work.

    I know every injury is different. Which means he could be back on the ice in a few years, or he could be done for his career. Time will tell. I'm as much a doctor as you two, I've looked over the medical report as much as you two, and I'm just as much as an expert as you two are.

    Playing ball hockey, and shinny doesn't mean you know what happens in competitive hockey.

    That's your opinion. I see where it's coming from. I just don't agree with it.
     
  21. mrgreen4242 macrumors 601

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    #21
    It wasn't an unfortunate incident. It was an unfortunate and unnecessary attack. If he wanted to fight him, then go for it; it's hockey. But jumping him from behind makes him, in my opinion, the baby.

    You should read this.

    Regardless of whether you think someone doesn't "know hockey" doesn't change the facts:

    1) Bertuzzi is a goon, always has been.
    2) He sucker punched someone, FROM BEHIND, and the preceded to tackle him onto the ice, head first.
    3) That persons career was ended as a direct result of the attack. No matter what you think he's not going to be playing pro hockey ever again. If he recovers completely and is given the OK to play he's going to be older, out of practice, and not a desirable employee for a pro hockey club.

    If I were Todd Bertuzzi I would have voluntarily retired and payed for all of Moore's expenses. I would be to embarrassed and ashamed of my behavior to do otherwise.

    I would also be embarrassed to play hockey with him, I was pretty disappointed to see him picked for the Olympic team; I don't feel like he is the kind of representative a country would want to send to an international competition of that scale.
     
  22. rickvanr macrumors 68040

    rickvanr

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    #22
    1) How has Bertuzzi always been a goon? Aside from this one incident, I can't think of any other reason to call him a goon.

    He's a big, strong and talented player. He's averaging around 100 PM a season (~ 50 penalties in a 82 game season), which means he's an aggressive player, getting a penalty maybe every other game, but he is a power forward after all.

    Bertuzzi's Stats

    Now, he's getting around the same amount of penalties as year as Joe Thornton. Is Joe a goon too?

    Thorton's Stats

    2) It's regrettable Moore was seriously hurt. It was bad luck. Still after seeing it replayed numerous times I still don't think he intentionally pushed him face first onto the ice.

    3) No one knows if his career is over. He's 27 right now. Even if it takes him 3 years to get back to the level he once was at he'll be 30. There are many players in the NHL over 40. Not to mention the countless other European elite leagues he could play in if he so desires.

    Well I'm glad you aren't Todd Bertuzzi because that would be a shame, and I'm glad there are level headed Canadians picking the olympic team and not you.

    Again, I don't think what Bertuzzi did is excusable. However, he has been suspended, and tried in criminal court. I don't blame Moore for suing him, I just feel very uneasy about the timing of him suing him. It's obvious that he picked this time because he and his lawyers felt it would garner the most media attention.
     
  23. mrgreen4242 macrumors 601

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    #23
    You say that what he did is not excusable, yet you make excuse after excuse for him.

    1) The last three seasons he's averaged about 1.75 PM per game played, btw, not "about one [2 minute] penalty every other game". Thornton, incidentally, averages about 1.2 PM per game over the last 3 years. Pull out the calculator and open up the pages you linked. That's something like 40% more penalties.

    2) It's not bad luck. Bad luck would have been an errant puck flying into his face, or a falling and hit his head funny. This was bad JUDGEMENT by Bertuzzi. Even if he didn't intentionally push his face to the ice (which I don't agree with) do you think that punching him and colliding with him from behind was an accident? Regardless of what happened after that point HE INITIATED the contact with an intent to injure Moore, even if he accidentally hurt him more than he meant to it's his fault.

    3) Give me a break. It's over for him. He may play hockey again, but it'll never be at a professional level.

    This is the second time that Moore has tried to press civil charges; the first time he was told to take it to Canada. Maybe it's timed to get more publicity, maybe it's just the statute of limitations for this charge like the lawyers claim. Doesn't change the facts of the incident, and I don't see why it should matter that much.

    Im glad I'm not Bertuzzi, too.
     
  24. rickvanr macrumors 68040

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    #24
    I'm not making excuses for him. What he did was 100% wrong.

    1) He's an aggressive player, not a goon. Aggressive players work hard in the corners, they take penalties. This doesn't make them a goon. Would you call Scott Stevens a goon? He averaged far more penalties then Bertuzzi, but he's not a goon. He's a competitor.

    2) It was bad judgement, and I bet he won't do it again. He was wrong, something had to be done in the situation, and he chose badly. Again, he was 100% wrong.

    3) With an attitude like that you're right.

    He had two years to file a civil lawsuit, how coincidental he waited until the first week of the olympics when all the press would be on the Canadian mens hockey team.
     
  25. XNine thread starter macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #25
    Rick, quit coming to the Goon's defense. He screwed another player out of ever playing again. Bertuzzi is a bitch. That's all he is now, and all he ever will be until he dies.

    It's not just Denver fans that hate him either. When playing in NY he was booed just as much as when he's in Denver. I watched the game where's Moore's brother, who plays for NY, gave Bertuzzi a good solid hit and knocked him on his ass. EVERYONE cheered. Lots of people have disdain for him.

    I think if YOU really understood the game, you wouldn't be giving him such a break. You NEVER, EVER intentionally hurt someone like that. Moore's hit was bad, and cheap, but it wasn't a bitch shot. Bertuzzi's was.

    Aren't you supposed to be done in this thread? :p
     

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