Mountain Lion doesn't seem like a real 'OS' upgrade

Discussion in 'OS X Mountain Lion (10.8)' started by mrsir2009, May 21, 2012.

  1. macrumors 604

    Sep 17, 2009
    Melbourne, Australia
    I'm not usually one to complain, but a lot of the features that Apple has listed about Mountain Lion on their website don't seem much like 'real' operating system upgrades:

    iCloud - Personally I don't use iCloud much, but I was under the understanding that all that iCloud stuff was already available on Lion... I don't get what's been added to iCloud with ML.

    iMessage - It's a nice feature, but it's more like an IM client app rather than an operating system feature. You should really be able to get it on the app store in the form of a messages app.

    Reminders & Notes - These are really just apps, not OS features at all. You could download apps on the app store that could do exactly the same things as these apps branded as OS features.

    Share Sheets - Again, it's just a feature in many ML apps. Not really part of the OS.

    Gatekeeper - Seems to me like a way to try and start walling OSX off... Not sure how many people would find this useful, let alone it be an incentive to upgrade their OS.
  2. macrumors 68040


    Aug 28, 2009
    Your understanding of apps and features is a bit broken.
  3. macrumors 68020


    Feb 17, 2011
    Spokane, WA
    Just because those are the only things on the site, doesn't mean those are the only upgrades coming. And, iCloud, while not very useful for you, is very nice for some people.
  4. macrumors demi-god

    Aug 7, 2007
    Dallas, TX
    Don't think you fully understand the big picture.

    1. iCloud is supported from the start of the OS release, and the hooks for it are everywhere, beyond just key-store information that makes up the bulk of what we've seen so far on the desktop if any at all.

    2. Notes and Reminders are no longer crippled by their mediocre integration with mail and iCal. More likely then not there will probably be APIs that will be released that will allow developers to make calls to these system level features that are going to be deeply integrated with iCloud.

    3. Sharesheets is not just built into apple applications but is a system level call that any application can use. It is also extendable to support whatever third party applications that are installed that extend it.

    4. Gatekeeper is actually brilliant because it reinforces accountability for any misbehaving applications. Gatekeeper is also easily disabled for those who need that.

    5. Notification Center being in here actually makes a much bigger difference on a computer then anticipated allowing you to quickly preview what emails, and messages say without having to leave the application. The fact iCloud tracks whether or not you ackowledge notifications on other devices and clear repeated ones will be a subtle thing that will be a big deal going forward.

    There's other changes too, like the ability to launch launchpad, and just start typing to bring up a list of applications installed. The way video works under the hood has also been overhauled as well.

    You don't have to like it, but it seems a little naive to judge a product based that you may not have messed with yet, let alone not with any apps that fully exploit its new features.

    Personally, I'm eager to use an iCloud optimized version of iWork. Would be great to not have to go to the site anymore.

    As a laptop user I am actually far happier with Mountain Lion then I am with Windows 8.

  5. macrumors 6502a


    Mar 7, 2007
    I think OP is trying to say that ML is not a game changer and is closely similar to Lion and unlike Windows 8, which touts drastic changes from Windows 7. I agree with the OP that applications are not always great features. iMessage beta runs on Lion but it will be pulled later for ML only. This makes ML special I suppose? It just seems like a cheap trick.
  6. macrumors G3

    Jessica Lares

    Oct 31, 2009
    Near Dallas, Texas, USA
    I think once you use it in its official form, you'll be very grateful for the changes. It's going to be amazing when installed apps get to use the Share Sheets. It's going to be amazing to not lose your notes anymore, just like it's amazing that you don't have to backup contacts to a SIM card anymore because of iCloud.

    It's not the Windows 8 change, but why change something that has been working for you and your customers since the first Mac OS?
  7. macrumors 6502

    Nov 5, 2010
    Sea of Tranquility

    That's quite true, at least till WWDC. I frankly never imagined Apple would boast about a new Mac OS X with Twitter being the main feature. I mean it's true that the user never interacts with the OS, just with the installed apps. But none of the new/updated apps bundled with ML qualify for an OS update. So far, the biggest change is GateKeeper, which perhaps may be the only real thing we are getting with ML.
  8. macrumors Core

    Jan 6, 2004
    people have been saying this since Snow Leopard, but its just that Apple has changed their gears on the way they release updates to the OS. It used to be every couple of years would be a huge upgrade and tons of changes, but now everything is incremental and while the features may be fewer and less wow, they're building and building each year on a solid foundation and slowly improving rather than big "WOW" factor updates. I much prefer the lower price point and smaller updates which make the upgrades much smoother too
  9. macrumors 6502

    Sep 18, 2011
    Las Vegas, NV
    The biggest feature that Mountain Lion has going for it is that its not Lion. All the features most people here are most excited for are things that were given back to use that Lion took away.

    Only time will tell if there are some unknown killer feature(s) in Mountain Lion, but the simple fact that it will include all the changes in Lion, but improves/fixes them might be enough for people to upgrade from Snow Leopard.
  10. macrumors 6502

    Dec 22, 2011
    10 pounds of sadness in a 5 pound bag.
  11. macrumors 603


    Oct 31, 2010
    Hamilton, Ontario
    well it wont have a real "OS" price tag either


    game changers like windows 8 will cost arond $300 not $29
  12. macrumors 6502a

    Oct 28, 2010
    Personally, I like what ML is bringing to the table. The integration with iOS is great for people like me who have both a Mac & 2 iOS devices (iPhone & iPad) having everything in sync across devices will be a really useful for me. There could still be some other standout features that haven't been announced yet, possibly iBooks for Mac or Siri, but that's just pure speculation.

    However, I can see what you mean about not seeing it as a "full" upgrade. I know it's easy to say this, but I feel (possibly) next year, if not definitely 2014 will yield the big "leap" you're looking for. After ML Apple will have completed the integration between devices that Lion started, leveraging iCloud. Then I think they can continue building upon those foundations and make breakthroughs that real "Tech people" want, such as a new File System, and possibly a new UI. I whole heartedly expect Apple already has a team busy at work on 10.9, if not the creation of it, at least the conceptualisation
  13. macrumors 68030

    Krazy Bill

    Dec 21, 2011
    On the contrary oh "misguided one"...

    Some here hail the reversion back to the old Expose as the second coming. :D. If the removal of a popular feature that wasn't broke, then adding it back in is part of Apple's strategy to keep you upgrading then it's really quite brilliant. :)
  14. macrumors 68000

    Jan 10, 2007
    I don't think that Mountain Lion is revolutionary in bringing any new startling eye-candy over its predecessor.

    However, I can assure you that there is vast improvement in speed and performance with Mountain Lion. It feels like a much smoother, refined operating system. The new Safari is soooo much snappier than the previous.

    There are little "tweaks" that I really love. One of my favorites is when downloading or transferring a file, there is a little status bar in the folder itself showing the amount of transfer time left. Also love the new notification center.

    No, not revolutionary at all, that is, until you see how much smoother things run. This is the best DP I have ever used. I can just imagine how much better the final version will be.
  15. macrumors member


    Nov 9, 2011
    Australia, Melbourne
    to the people saying it's not revolutinary

    go install 10.6 and ios 4 and then tell me how fun it is getting things across using itunes sync and a usb cable :rolleyes:

    If we were still on snow leopard and skipped lion and went straight to ML then it would be revolutionary. But we got lion inbetween because that's how apple do things now. Fast incremental upgrades. And really, that's a great thing!
  16. macrumors 603


    Jul 3, 2002
    Middle Earth
    OS X is now a mature operating system.

    You're simply not going to see huge groundbreaking technology added with every new version.

    And from now on the really groundbreaking stuff will be buried deep within the bowels of the OS. You're not going to get excited about OpenCL advancements or big changes to AVFoundation. They are too geeky. What you will get excited about is the ability to handle media in applications better without them crapping out.

    iCloud Documents in the Cloud in Lion doesn't work. None of Apple's OS X apps use it.

    iWork - nada
    FCPX - nada
    Logic Pro - nada
    Filemaker - nada
    Bento -nada
    iLife - nada

    That should tell you that Lion has a half-baked implementation and we're finally getting prepared to see what iCloud can do.

    I hope that a late seed of ML brings in Maps. I'm guessing that if ML is going to having mapping tech built in that info won't be divulged until iOS 6.0 is previewed.

    I think the future big stuff will be centered around a new filesystem and hopefully some sort of nextgen scripting that will be sandbox friendly and work across OS X and iOS.
  17. macrumors 68040

    Feb 13, 2012
    Perth, Western Australia
    Future OS X updates are likely to be more about internal refinement and providing new APIs for applications than new shiny interface features.

    the UI is mostly a solved problem.

    As far as Windows 8 goes, i have the beta here and i wouldn't call it an "upgrade" either.

    Its a half-baked, clumsy mish-mash of 2 different interfaces that no one wants for a desktop. If you think multi monitor support in OS X is bad (due to the way fullscreen works, which you can easily not use), try Windows 8. It feels very much like a crippled Windows 7 with marginally less RAM requirement. And RAM is about $10/gb these days, if you get ripped off.
  18. macrumors 601

    Nov 12, 2007
    Remember that Apple said that they are changing to yearly updates for OS X just like iOS.

    This means that each OS X update is going to be smaller in terms of major features but it'll be more refined versions of previous update rather than a major overhaul like Leopard.

    Also, everybody's moving toward smaller multiple dedicated apps rather than suite apps that has everything in it (iLife, iWork, etc). In addition to this, Apple is slowly building a powerful integrated ecosystem for those smaller apps by providing iCloud to sync data effortless between all of your devices, Share Sheets to send data between apps, and so on.

    The move toward MAS and GateKeeper ensure the safety of the interactions by restricting them to apps that are reviewed at the MAS.
  19. TennisandMusic

    Aug 26, 2008
    Share sheets need to come to iOS 6, badly. This functionality already exists in Android and Windows 8 ("contracts"). Adding this to iOS 6 would be one thing that brings it's own functionality up several notches IMO. My guess is we will see it though.
  20. macrumors 68020

    May 1, 2009
    I'm surprised no one mentioned Airplay Mirroring, that's a huge feature in ML imo.

    Also, HiDPI mode will allow newer macs to use pretty much any resolution you might want, another huge advance imo.

    I think ML will be rather impressive, though it's subtlety is not fully appreciated yet.
  21. macrumors 6502

    Dec 22, 2011
    Because people just like to run with some idiotic idea they heard somewhere. Just because you don't see much change on the surface doesn't mean it's not changing.

    I started with Tiger 10.4.8 on a plastic MacBook. OS X made a huge leap forward since then. Old farts can shove it.
  22. macrumors 65816

    May 1, 2005
    I kind of agree with the OP in a way; the API for iCloud is already in Lion, so what Mountain Lion so far seems to add is better integration for Apple's apps, not really an OS level change. That may well not be entirely the case, but iCloud doesn't seem a strong enough incentive to replace the OS version when Lion's iCloud integration doesn't really seem any worse.

    Notes and Reminders are definitely not OS-level features and I agree with the OP completely on this one; they're just apps, pushing them as a Mountain Lion feature does more to highlight how badly implemented they are at the moment. There's no reason why Lion users couldn't benefit from those apps.
    Likewise, Messages is just a weak update to iChat. While iMessage support is nice, it's still a pretty poor IM client compared to much easier to use apps like Adium.

    Share Sheets are a bit of a weak one too; as it's something a third party developer could just as easily create as a library for app-makers to include (or have their apps look for). If anything I'd rather have less social networking integration in my apps, but maybe that's just me.

    Gate Keeper however I disagree with; I think it's a much more important feature than it seems at first glance. For one thing it's just deliciously simple, and yet in that simplicity suddenly your average user is no longer as likely to install apps from malicious sources or, more crucially, apps pretending to be genuine. While there's still a question as to how quickly Apple will revoke a malicious developer's signature, it's a far more elegant solution than built-in anti-virus (which requires a lot more work to maintain) or dynamic sandboxing etc.

    Airplay Mirroring is a nice feature, though with Lion/Mountain Lion's still fundamentally broken multi-monitor support the shine kind of wears off pretty quick, plus it's not going to be of use to a huge number of people.

    I do also agree with those waiting with baited breath for WWDC, as I've always been more interested in an OSes behind-the-scenes features, which we haven't heard a great deal about yet, so I'm still hopeful that Mountain Lion will have something of real interest to me. Currently the only feature I'm looking forward to is GUI support for multiple time machine targets, but when a simple script can do that on Lion I'm not too sure about upgrading just for that :)
  23. macrumors 601

    Nov 12, 2007
    Remember guys, there's a reason it is called Mountain Lion. It is not a major change over Lion, it's a refined version of Lion, so almost everything will be the same but just refined. It's only going to be a year since Lion was released (July 19, 2011). You can't change much in one year.

    The basic implementation is already in iOS 5, the "Open in" sheet. iOS 6 will likely improve on this by providing more APIs for it.
  24. macrumors G4

    Small White Car

    Aug 29, 2006
    Washington DC
    We all used to pay hundreds of dollars to upgrade our OS every 3 or 4 years.

    Apple is shifting to a new world where we all pay $30 every year. Yeah, it's gonna be different than it used to be. And that's a good thing.
  25. macrumors 6502

    Feb 12, 2009
    I'm pretty excited about Mountain Lion. For those of us who refused to upgrade to 10.7 there are now valid arguments for making the jump to 10.8, especially the improved battery life and refinements of Lion's features.

    Of course, if you choose to take the plunge when the new MacBook Pros arrive next month you won't have any choice...

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