MS disappointing...

Discussion in 'Games' started by sikkinixx, May 13, 2006.

  1. sikkinixx macrumors 68020

    sikkinixx

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    #1
    Although at E3 I think the 360 did have some of the best looking games, overall i have to say I am disappointed with them. The 360 truly is Xbox 1.5. I mean yeah it has some pretty games, and it is in HD which is awesome but overall MS played it really safe. They already had xbox live and just tacked on a marketplace, some old arcade games, and a poorly done voice chat system (have you heard the quality of it? yuk). It's a good system, and I bought one at launch and have half a dozen games for it, but after seeing more of the same at E3 i kinda feel... blah with it.

    Nintendo took one HUGE chance with their controller. And so far byt the amount of Nintendo fanboy/fanaticism on all sorts of forums they did very well for themselves. I pre-ordered one (got a buddy from EB who made sure i will get #1 spot thwne it goes on preorder) and the Snes/genesis/N64/NES/GC stuff looks great, hopefully they won't charge too much for the darn games. BUt what sucks is no HD. A lot of people say "HD isnt all that great, you don't need it", these people need to play a 360 in HD then go play it on a regular tv and see the huge loss in clarity and overall sharpness of the picture. And the small jump in horsepower in the system kind of sucks because in 3 years when ps3/xbox are pumping out amazing looking games and Wii has maxed out what it can do since it is basically a turbo charged GC (they are using almost the same dev kit for the Wii as the GC). But, nintendo always finds a way to pull a miracle out of their butt so no doubt they will find a way to keep the system going. Plus, the wiimote looks rad for FPS games. :cool:

    Personally I think sony took the largest risk by taking a bunch of small ones. Its too bad they don't know how to do a PR show because E3 made them look like idiots. That guy who played Warhawk with the wiiDual Shock controller looked crazy but reading opinions on IGN and Gamespot the controller actually sounds easy to use and fun but in need of a bit of sensitivity tweeking. The bluray is a big risk because they charge more for it, but again, anyone who has an HD set will be stoked to have HD movies instead of 480i/480p ones with DVD's. I'm hoping Bluray wins VHS vs Beta round 2 (even though sony helped create VHS and made Beta) so then I won't have to buy a HD-DVD player ;) The bluetooth is great, the card readers are great, built in wifi is great, 60GB hdd is great, price is.. well not so great and the sneaky removal of HDMI from the "lower' priced model is a joke.

    Anyway, the point being is that 360 looks dull compared to the 100% games-nothing-else Wii and the computer..I mean Ps3. MS playing it safe kind of bums me out, even though I know that MS will probably end up ahead of everyone because their system will be cheap and has little new to add the market, just kind of added a fresh coat of paint to the old Xbox.
     
  2. mrgreen4242 macrumors 601

    mrgreen4242

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    #2
    See, I feel the opposite about MS and Sony. Sony didn't take any risk at all. They just made a faster, better looking PS2, period. They took the cord off the controller and said 'good enough'. They put every feature anyone might want and slapped it all together, then just put a price tag on that is a product of all those features. No risk at all. Either you are willing to spend $600 for a game system or not.

    MS on the other hand took a risk by releasing first, always a risky proposition, since mayne people are willing to 'wait and see'. They also decided to remove a feature which many thought would be a system maker, that is HD DVD movie support, out of the system to keep the price down; again a risk: will people buy this without HD DVD? They were the first to sell games as downloads, something which takes a significant investment not only in the network being in place to offer it, including the tech support and billing systems, but also the investment into the IP. Getting all these companies together and selling so many different products in a completely new form wasn't easy, I'm sure.

    In short, MS: risk with early release, with removing what many saw as a "killer feature" (HDDVD), risk with the Live Marketplace. Sony: wait and see before releasing, don't change the controller at all, offer every feature anyone could possibly want, so no one can complain about anything. The only risk they are taking is with the price.

    Nintendo, obviously went their own way, and while there is risk in that (it's a new paradigm, people might not like it, etc), there is also some risk removed from their market... they don't have to compete against MS and Sony, so they don't have to be worried about being compared to them [as much as they would otherwise].
     
  3. sikkinixx thread starter macrumors 68020

    sikkinixx

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    #3
    MS released first because they were done it first. PS3 wasnt even close to being done last year or else I'm sure they would have released it. MS wanted to get into the market first, like PS2 did last time around to build up a larger user base before the other players started. Thats not really risky. I dont't think MS supported HD-DVD early last year when they spec'd the system did they? I remember hearing about MS adopting it for Vista around the summer some time. But regardless, I think they played it safe because the majority of consumers are freaked out about new technology and like to keep what works (ie. they still make freakin VHS movies). I think sony took a chance by making a system that is ready for 2010 (with 1080p, Bluray, etc.) rather than one that is what we already have now.

    lol oh and you are dead on about Nintendo.
     
  4. Haoshiro macrumors 68000

    Haoshiro

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    #4
    I would disagree as well. Clearly Wii took the biggest risk and is the most innovative. But what is new for PS3 as far as games? MGS4, Tekken 6, Heavenly Sword (glorified brawler), Warhawk (fly plane, shoot stuff), Resistance (FPS, Humans vs Aliends + WWII?), GT4 HD (last gen racer?)

    Now I'm not saying 360 stuff is utterly fresh or on the innovation level of Wii, but several of the games seemed really impressive. BioShock looks fresh, Gears of War looks like a really refined 3rd person shooter - co-op play, solid cover mechanics - viceral presentation - it just looks fun, Viva Piñata - what the heck?, Mass Effect (Sci-Fi RPG by Bioware, looking very polished), and Too Human (an attempt at a sci-fi God of War? Silicon Knights makes some great games...)

    I was expecting to be REALLY UNimpressed by 360 this year and the opposite turned out true.
     
  5. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #5
    And that's where they screwed it all up. They are giving you features that most people are not ready for, if DVD only over took VHS rentals in 2003 and it had no competition at all, it's gonna take even longer for a new format with a competitor to get a foot hold in the market.

    The excuse then to use the PS3 to push BluRay onto consumers becomes redundant when they crippled its use in their $499 machine.

    By 2010 do you not think they'll be somthing offering better and cheaper alternative to BluRay or HD-DVD? Of course there will, possibly HVD which is due out in a few years time, will be cheaper have full manufacturer support and hold upto 3 TB of data..

    The biggest Risk sony took this year was announcing the price so soon, and crippling their v.expensive budget model.

    The games have been ok, but NOT living upto the standard of the videos shown last year at all. Motostorm was So FAR off the standard of the video is was appauling. Graphically it was average at best.

    Sony then stealing the wii remotes design was hillarious for the wrong reasons.

    Taking out Dual Shock, and putting in the gyro thing wasnt original, it was a desperate attempt to squeeze somthing into their controller to replace the Dual Shock which they LOST the PATENT dispute with the original designers and have subsequently decided to no longer pay royalties... They aren't being original at all...

    Microsoft had the nicest looking games overall at this years E3, and the Nintendo wii definetly had the biggest crowds, all the press have reported this.

    Sony's stand whilst busy was definetly trailing in third place at this years E3...
     
  6. sikkinixx thread starter macrumors 68020

    sikkinixx

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    #6
    I meant more along the lines of Hardware than games because the 360 games look good. But they are riding Halo 3 pretty hard, and Forza 2. Gears of War is old news but still got my preorder on it. What about Assassin's Creed for Ps3? that game stole the show for me, well reading about it anyway.
     
  7. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #7
    If your talking hardware, you only have to see the vast amount of interest and excitment in the Nintendo Wii after this years E3 to see that it clearly won the show.

    There's so much dissapointment in the Ps3. Dropping dual ethernet, dropping dual HDMI, dropping the usb sockets on the back, dropping the 7 controller support and then in the $500 version dropping HDMI entirly, dropping wifi, dropping mem card reader.....

    The sudden quietness and almost entire dissaperance of Linux? Is it even going to happen and if it is how crippled will it be?

    Really in all seriousness how can you say it won on the hardware front?

    Having more of somthing, or better this or that does not guarantee victory. Price, Reliability and Public willingness to accept do, Sony have not convinced any of the industry reporters if you read their blogs, that they will do this after their performance at E3....


    I accept some games looked good, The new naughty dog game looks nice, and yes assasins creed is interesting, but others like Warhawk just looked like Yager on PC/Xbox from a couple years back...
     
  8. sikkinixx thread starter macrumors 68020

    sikkinixx

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    #8
    im not saying it won on the hardware front, im saying MS lost on it. Wii was obviously the winner of the show.

    and PS3 still has 7 controller support... i think
     
  9. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #9
    Nope 4...

    Microsoft definetly beat Sony! Why? because they showed some nicer looking games that didnt require you to invest 500-600 to get them.

    They also won be not saddling people with a core machine that could NEVER be upgraded....

    I wish they didnt bother with HD-DVD addon as I think it's not needed at all, at least in this generation of machines.

    But overall the Wii won the hardware by being more than people expectations, Sony simply didnt live up to people expectations of their new hardware and the only way to judge that is to look at the software and not the spec sheet.... Is it any wonder we didnt see Killzone this year, after the crapness of Motorstorm - Killzone is going to look pants next to the CGI movie of last year...
     
  10. sikkinixx thread starter macrumors 68020

    sikkinixx

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    #10
    bummer... the press conference says 7 wireless controllers.. did they change it again?? jerks...

    And MS would have better looking games! they have had the dev kit for longer, more time to make prettier games. I suppose I didnt get what I wanted to say out. What i meant overall is that Sony's hardware, for me, is more interesting and has more potential in the future than 360 will. Forget the 20GB model, its a stupid marketing idea. the real ps3 is the 600 dollar version. I'm not arguing that Nintendo's looks groovy and will be a blast to play. its a market on its own.

    Price wise, if you add the 100 buck wifi, 100-200 bucks HD-DVD player and a 40GB bigger Hard drive (if they ever make one) your 400 dollar 360 turns into a 600 dollar 360.
     
  11. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #11

    Well one other the main reason PS3 is so late is because sony had to wait for Blue-Ray prices to fall a little....i mean sony had much more time to work on the PS3 the MS did the 360.. Sony could have press forward with the PS3 with out Blue-Ray and it would already be in stores.. instead the waited and its still to much money, they either release it early losing blue-ray, wait and release it with Bl-Ray, and the picked the worst way. Wait a little to bring the price down but not long enought to make it cheap.

    Sony is using the PS3 as a tool so Bl-Ray will win and they make money from their format becoming the market's format. Really the PS3 could have been a good system with better specs, cheaper and much nicer looking then the 360 if SOny had droped Blue-Ray
     
  12. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #12

    But the point is some might not need all that stuff... i don't need HD-DVD, safiing me 200, and 20GB harddrive is more then i need for games. So i really only would buy Wi-Fi(which i would likly try and use a cord for). If sony had given the option to upgrade it over make all that stuff standard the PS3 would be much cheapers or they could have had Blue-Ray only as a upgrade and BAM the PS3 is pricey simlarly to 360
     
  13. sikkinixx thread starter macrumors 68020

    sikkinixx

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    #13
    *feels alone as the only one who thinks Sony can actually salvage their E3 breakdown* ;)


    I agree with making some stuff optional, but making Bluray optional would defeat the purpose. This way developers know they can use it. The reason the optional harddrive bugs me on 360 is that developers as much less likely to use the hard drive to its potential if they know people might not have it. Same deal with if only some people had Bluray, developers wouldnt be prone to take advantage of it because not everyone would have access to it.

    If you dont need the blue ray etc, they get to 500 dollar one without HDMI and without wifi. For you Americans it hurts more but in Canada the price difference is 50 bucks from a 360 to a PS3, no biggie of you want it to be like an Xbox.
     
  14. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #14
    No making BluRay movie playback only possible on half your consoles defeats the purpose. :)

    I was really looking forward to Sony at E3 this year and overall I'm v.dissapointed. I've always bought consoles on the day of release, and I would generally see myself as a very liberal unbiased gamer. I have had practically every console since the NES. My attic is like a console graveyard :) and I just felt the Sony have really missed the ball on this one.

    Adding more of somthing, and yet sacrificing other stuff is a bit pointless. Sony's imsitance on BluRay and then pissing on half of it's audience by taking out HDMI is really unjustifyable, and theres no point people insiting that 'hey well your not supposed to get the cheaper model anyway' is just silly. Its still a $499 console....

    Yes the hardware is cheap if you say, well the graphics cards would cost this and the processor that.. but at the end of the day the main importance is games and not hyperbole, this is where they failed the most this year.
     
  15. sikkinixx thread starter macrumors 68020

    sikkinixx

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    #15
    hey i agree, taking out the HDMI is a stupid move, a very stupid move. But life goes on. They still a while to change things up (ie. new controller....again lol) and TGS is in a bit so we will see then. MS has a crappy E3 last yar but rebounded nicely.
     
  16. XNine macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #16
    No risk? I'd call pushing a brand new technology (Bluray) into the market is a risk. As for the controller, why fix what's not broken. Pulling the rumble feature out is a great idea. Cos, rumble sucks.

    They're also the only ones to incorporate bluetooth. There's lots of risk by Sony. But I'm not the only one who sees that Sony will once again trump all the other consoles.
     
  17. mrgreen4242 macrumors 601

    mrgreen4242

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    #17
    Dreamcast was first to market last time around not the PS2, and look what happened to it. No one bought it because they were waiting for Sony to deliver them real time Toy Story (which they promised, and never delivered).

    You're kidding, right? Rumble sucks? One, they dropped it because they got sued by the company who owns the patent on it (which Nintendo apparantly owns part of). Two, it's a feature that everyone has been holding their breath to get onto wireless controllers for years. It doesn't suck, according to the vast majority of gamers.

    There are a LOT of people who do not like the Dual Shock. The analog sticks are extremely uncomfortable for a huge number of people, especially when you have to use them both at once. The only reason they are where are is it was the only place they had space to tack them on after the N64 controller proved to be so good.

    Wii uses BT for it's controllers, see http://wii.nintendo.com/hardware.html, not that I can see how adopting an industry standard wireless protocal is a risk.
     
  18. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #18
    Agree with that 150%

    **Up to four Wii Remotes can be connected at once using wireless Bluetooth technology**
     
  19. sikkinixx thread starter macrumors 68020

    sikkinixx

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  20. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #20

    LOL! Not hate, mutual contempt. Sony have contempt for the consumer (proof the 499 console), and we have contempt at Sony for trying to pull a fast one (CGI movies looking nothing like final product)... :) :) :D :D
     
  21. sikkinixx thread starter macrumors 68020

    sikkinixx

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    #21

    lol did you see the FFXIII trailer? the actual gameplay part looks almost as good as the movie part. I can see the anger towards the price but whatcha gonna do? It's still gonna sell a bucket load of systems and will get good support so it'll all even itself out in the end. :cool: well i hope anyway.. already got a spot for my Wii and my PS3 alongside my 360 :cool:
     
  22. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #22
    Yeah FF series has always been pretty, but never really blown me away. I did like FF9 though, my favourite of the series. I have no doubt there will be some fantastic exclusive titles on the PS3, just as there currently is for the PS2. As it stands I've seen no exclusive title that would pursude me to part with the money Sony are asking.

    In Ireland we get all our prices in comparison to sterling - even though we are in the Euro zone. So in reality we will see a price tag of €620 rather than €599. When you convert that to Dollars - we are paying just over $800 USD or $890 CAD

    You can see why it's gonna take somthing MAJOR for me to spend that kind of money...
     
  23. Haoshiro macrumors 68000

    Haoshiro

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    #23
    I really didn't think that was true. The trailer cut in and out of game/FMV so quickly it didn't give you much time to catch it. It was noticable to me when enough motion could really be seen and tons of HUD wasn't obscuring the view.

    It obviously will look good, better then FFX, but I thought it was definitely noticable difference... just the cut of the trailer went from game to FMV so fast it was hard to pick out.
     
  24. Jovian9 macrumors 68000

    Jovian9

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    #24
    I agree with all of that :)

    The PS controllers are horrible. I cannot stand using them to play games. Worst of all time! ....and trying to pull a fast-one on consumers with no HDMI output on the $499 model (which will also probably be in lesser supply than the $599 model forcing people to pay more to get one at Christmas). What is the point of paying so much more for a blu-ray drive in your console if it has no HDMI output? Bigger disks for games....yeah right!
    My original intention was to get a Wii on launch and get a PS3 when the price dropped the first time.....and to not get an Xbox 360 b/c I spent too much time looking for one for my nephews for Christmas and could never find one. But now I will be getting 360 instead of a PS3. The add on HD-DVD drive doesn't bother me.......if HD-DVD's take off in the next year or so I can then spend less on a drive that will play them than the current $499 price tag for an HD-DVD player.....and if by chance I buy a core-360 I can add a hard drive later. Therefore spreading out expenses over time instead of buying a dead-end $499 PS3 or an overpriced $599 PS3.

    ....and I'll still be getting a Wii.....no doubt about that..........
     
  25. mrgreen4242 macrumors 601

    mrgreen4242

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    #25
    Besides that, after the pre-PS2 hype I won't believe anything that Sony shows or claims about a game until it's in the demo kiosk of a store. I'm not saying the I don't think PS3 games will look good, but I just don't trust Sony to show me reality.
     

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