My take on Global Warming

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by quruli, Aug 18, 2006.

  1. quruli macrumors regular

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    #1
    Call me a hippie or a Gorebot or whatever you like. But I challenge you to step outside of your political ties and/or extremeisms and think about what I have to say.

    I am no scientist. However, based on what I have read something is happening to the Earth. I know the arugment is "well you can't prove humans are causing it". Maybe not.

    But does it really matter? Let's say it is one of those natural warming phases. Things are going to change. And the fact is, while we have been around for times when the tempertures changed a little and threw us off. We haven't lived through an ice age, or any other extreme temperture changes.

    Regardless of what is causing it, we should try to learn as much as possible and not dismiss it as BS and take some action. I find it foolish that as far as we have come as a race we can't even step outside of ourselves and tackle this issue as a GLOBAL society.

    If we decide nothing needs to be done. SO be it. If we decide something should be. So be it.

    Sorry if I am going in circles. I just feel like nowadays instead of tackling the problem at hand. We would rather have a debate, full of name calling and what have you. Again, we come this far for what?

    So in summary, I would hope that we could all look at this as a real problem regardless of cause at this point. It could be natural it could be man made, we need to seek those answers through those who make these things their lives work and as a community decide the course of action.
     
  2. OnceUGoMac macrumors 6502a

    OnceUGoMac

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    #2
    I don't think it's a question of whether many of the contributers to global warming is man-made. The U.S. Congress know it is, but they get greased by special interest groups to ignore it. I'd like to be in the House of Representatives, just so I can yell at those idiots for selling out their constintuents, their states, their nation, and the world for their wallets. Granted, I would probbaly only be a one termer, but exposing those assclowns is well worth it.
     
  3. beatsme macrumors 65816

    beatsme

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    #3
    I would think the real issue is not who or what caused it but rather what we should be doing to adjust to it. You can't win the "global warming is man-made" argument, because for every scientist you produce who says it is there's another one who'll say it isn't.

    in another way, I think it'll be dead-issue soon enough. If the burning of hydrocarbons is indeed the cause of global warming, then from all available evidence we won't have to worry about that much longer. Within 150 years the US will have, out of necessity, switched to alternate sources of energy. Hydrogen is a pipe dream, but fusion may well be real possibility...
     
  4. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #4
    actually, i think it's more like for every 500 climatologists you produce who say it is, there's one who'll say it isn't. and then the MSM gives them equal coverage while the WH and oil industries promote the views of that one guy.

    no wonder there's confusion.
     
  5. someguy macrumors 68020

    someguy

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    #5
    Global warming is of no concern to me. Our planet will be blown to pieces as a result of us all trying to kill each other before the effects of global warming will be great enough to do any real damage. :eek:
     
  6. Timepass macrumors 65816

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    #6
    It not a question of we help cause global warming but it more to what degree we cause it. I think that part is blown out of propution. We could just be the cause of 1% of the raise in temp of the earth. Right people seem to act like we are the cause of 90% of it.

    I think it more natural and not human caused than humaned caused.


    Also I think we just need to clean up how much polution we are doing any way because we are just killing our selves in the processes.
     
  7. beatsme macrumors 65816

    beatsme

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    #7
    which is reflective of the poor state of education in this country. Most (well, maybe not most, but many) people aren't equipped to make an informed judgement about scientific matters. Which is why you can't ever win the argument. A lot of people, when presented with the evidence, just won't believe it.

    An illustration:
    back in 1999, the tshirt company I worked for was planning a line of Y2K/Millennium shirts. I said (quite rightly, you know) that we should avoid references to the new millennium because the new millennium would begin not in 2000 but rather in 2001. This rather innocuous remark made it's way to the company's owner, who responed thusly:

    "oh yea? How do you know?"

    the owner, by the way, is your typical ex-jock dumbass, the kind of guy who spent his school days stuffing the people who actually knew things into lockers. That, unfortunately, is the mentality you're dealing with when you try to talk about science...or damn near anything else, I'm beginning to think. "I may not know what's going on, but I know you sure as hell don't!"
     
  8. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #8
    that sums it up nicely.
     
  9. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #9
    There was an interesting article I read and quoted a long while back about this subj. We must be VERY careful about what ACTION we take. For a long time tree farms were said to be the answer, then it became known that it would reduce the CO2 level for a couple of decades then drastically increase it after that. It would actually make the situation worse.

    I am for a globally treated Kyoto accord. No one exempt. Regardless of the amount of man caused warming, pollution is not a positive thing.
     
  10. Timepass macrumors 65816

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    #10
    exactly. That is the easiest thing. It not a question of if we cause global warming. We know we help it. It a question of the degree. It going to happen. The history of the earth proves that the earth warms and cools off in long cycles. Saying other wise is just well plan stupid and one of the things that tick me off about people screaming GLOBAL WARMING.... They seem to forget the earth changest it average temp over time both warmer and cooler.

    Dino walk the earth during a long warm time on earth. Then you had an ice age then warm back up, ice age again.

    In record history we have a time where it was warmer than normal for a long while then it got colder than normal for a while. (read up on the mini ice age in eurp in I believe the 1500's or was it before the plague not imporant) before hand it was warmer than normal because of how crops where doing and heath was doing during that time plus just record history. Then the temp dropped. We know that stuff was not brought on by human activity but just natural cycle of the earth.

    Right now it could be argue that we are in a warming trend. And soon we could be going into a cooling trend.

    It a question of degree. Not a question if we are. It a question of how much of the warming of the earth is cause by humans and what is just natural trend. There no way in hell we are the cause of 90% of it or more. I believe most of the warming trend is natural.

    That all being said reducing pollution is a good thing and the more imporant thing. Even if it all 100% natural and none of it is caused by human action reducing polution is a GOOD THING. We dont need to help the cycle in any way let it all be natural.
     
  11. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #11
    [​IMG]

    from here.

    if that upward trend during the industrial revolution doesn't look statistically significant to you -- and cause for alarm -- i don't know what to tell you.
     
  12. aquajet macrumors 68020

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    #12
    The scientific evidence is very compelling. Basically, high CO2 levels, leading to increasing average global temperatures, starting at the time of the industrial revolution. What other plausible explanation do you have? Is it your gut that tells you that most of the warming trend is natural?
     
  13. thedude110 macrumors 68020

    thedude110

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    #13
    Which is also reflective of how few "serious" scientists attempt to make their findings accessible to a lay public. And how poorly the print and audio/visual media covers non-sensationalized news (such as research science).

    I believe this mode of argument is technically called "seeing your scapegoat and raising you one."
     
  14. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #14
    Instead of pointing to global warming as the main reason to adjust our habits, why can't we point to evidence that can't be denied. Just look at China and how poor their air is. Look at how contaminated their rivers are. Look at how poor our rivers in the U.S. are. Look at cancer rates. Wouldn't that win arguments more effectively than debating global warming time and again?

    Any thoughts?

    I know, for some it's either global warming or bust. Some people just won't be persuaded. But there are many compassionate, moderate individuals who genuinely care about the world.
     
  15. Mav451 macrumors 68000

    Mav451

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    #15
    In my Environmental Engineering classes, I've had to go over far too many case studies where power plants continually refuse to reduce pollution. They give any kind of excuse they can find--ultimately delaying and letting pollution continue unabated.

    With that in mind, I don't see how we will get anywhere in terms of making progress on Global Warming with that kind of forceful resistance already in place. It truly is sad...and scary.

    And with a GOP-dominated Congress & Senate...it doesn't look to get any better anytime soon. The election of W. Bush in 2000 set the US pretty far back in Energy Policy, and it is a damn shame.
     
  16. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #16
    Vote Kinky :D :p :cool:
     
  17. Mav451 macrumors 68000

    Mav451

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    #17
    Omg...I really can't believe my eyes. Don't take this the wrong way, but seeing an environmentally friendly platform from a Texas politician?

    I'm dreaming right?

    *pinch*
     
  18. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #18
    about the degree of influence: 35-45% according to computer simulations by cooperation of german max planck institutes and some US universities .. at least around that degree their model fits the statistical data from the last 150 years or so (as far as i remember)

    the problem with global warming is that we might be helping in pushing the natural cooling and heating up cycle over the edge
    after all the most common ozone layer destroying gas is in fact H20 .. and the more the earth is heat up the more H20 gets into the air ..

    you only have to look at Venus where most scientists believe that exactly that happened .. i think it's called a run-away process .. once ignited not really possible to stop it...
     
  19. Queso macrumors G4

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    #19
    Yeah, we're in the process of making life on this rock impossible for all land based mammals. As a species we don't deserve to survive, so if we don't it's no big deal.

    Let the insects have a go. They can't do any worse than us.
     
  20. ZoomZoomZoom macrumors 6502a

    ZoomZoomZoom

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    #20
    Looks like the MBPs are heatings things up a little more than we thought...


    On a more serious note, how can global warming be stopped? Not only are most people ignorant (not stupid, just misinformed) about the seriousness and immediacy of the issue, but do people really care that much about the environment anyways? Money makes the world go 'round. When you have people complaining about inflation, job growth, taxes, etc. it's hard to pour cash towards an issue you might as well leave on the table for the next politician.. and next politician... By the time people try to take action, it'll be when there are significant, visible consequences from the mistakes done today.
     
  21. Timepass macrumors 65816

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    #21

    Good question. As a whole it more about the econmony on when people start caring. And keeping everything clean is good for the econmony.
    The first enviomental laws past where clean river way acts I believe (sorry my notes from my Enviomental Engineering class are 600 miles away and buried in a milk creat with a bunch of other notes and papers). And those laws where passed so shipping lanes in the rivers didnt get messed up. It was later on the heath reason where added. But a lot of them keep us from having to pay for it later to clean it up.

    Mess up the land cannt grow crops on it, cannt grow crops cannt sell crops or anything thing like that. Plus it makes it harder to ship.

    Also a lot of heath reasons as well. But when money gets in volved and it starts hurting income people will get behind it.

    One thing I would like seen passed is the ablillity to used recycled waste water for drinking. We can and do clean it back up to safety standard of drinking water. Heck most city surface water is just recycled waste water from a city father upstream. In the highest point in the summer 95% of houston surface water is waste water from dallas area. Just people dont seem to want to know that or even know it. It all the mental thing.
     
  22. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #22
    If they're right, we could stop the destruction of mankind, if not the Earth. If wrong, we still clean up the environment. Like, you know, the air we breathe and the water we drink and bathe in. I like breathing, and water, and not being destroyed. I don't like being hot. Of course, it's not just Global Warming either. There's also an increase in cooling in some areas.

    But hey, I'm sure the people against Global Warming research have our best interests at heart and not that of Big Business who don't want to spend the extra couple of bucks to stop polluting because it cuts into their profits.
     
  23. aquajet macrumors 68020

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  24. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #24
    You wouldn't have anyway. ;)
     
  25. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #25
    One problem is the lack of perspective on some issues: For instance, the air and the rivers of the US are generally cleaner now than when Nixon signed the NEPA 1969 into law.

    Since then: Lake Erie is no longer "dead". The Cuyahoga River won't again catch fire and melt a bridge. You can see downtown Houston from the edge of town. The LA Basin is no longer invisible behind a brown dome-like smog-cloud.

    But, more people, more cars, more trucks, planes and trains; more electrical demand. And, worldwide, add also more economic activity, which means even more grunge.

    For all that people love to beat on the US, I've run across a few data points that seem to indicate we're not all that bad. I don't have a cite, but I read that a NOAA funded study that was done by NASA found that there was more CO2 in the air coming in from the Pacific than in the air leaving to the Atlantic. A possible cause lies in the datum that the total estimate of trees in the US is greater than in the first years of European settlement. Plus, crops. Young and early-growth vegetation takes up more CO2 than mature plants, "old growth" forests.

    Separately: That one is against such things as the Kyoto Accords doesn't mean a disbelief in global warming. For me, it means that as a society, we cannot meet the requirements and maintain any sort of healthy economy--and our present economical situation is at its own tipping point toward Bad Things. If the NOAA study is true, we have time to make changes without doing them hastily...

    'Rat
     

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