My thoughts of September 11th 2002...

Discussion in 'Community' started by LimeiBook86, Sep 11, 2002.

  1. LimeiBook86 macrumors 604

    LimeiBook86

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    #1
    Well I don't talk that well so why not express my thoughts in another way? ...Below is picture I have drawn (on paper), I hope you enjoy it. I must warn you the picture is pretty big. United We Stand, and God Bless America! :cool:

    [​IMG]
     
  2. vniow macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
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    I accidentally my whole location.
    #2
    Wow, not bad.:)
    How big is the canvas actually?


    Off-topic, how's your web comic going?
     
  3. LimeiBook86 thread starter macrumors 604

    LimeiBook86

    Joined:
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    #3
    The picture is 14 x 17 inches, the frame is bigger, I'm glad you like it! My comic is doing well, I'll release the first comic soon, wish me luck!
     
  4. Kethoticus macrumors 6502

    Kethoticus

    #4
    My thoughts...

    Nice illustration. I hope that what they build in place of it, though, is not only larger and more grand, but also more elegant visually.

    As for my personal thoughts, I shall list them.

    * I miss NYC. Lived in the area all my life until recently, and I feel like I should be there every time there's a ceremony or memorial thing of some kind. Just not enough time or money.

    * Anyone saying that we should pursue a peaceful solution is not living in the real world. I don't advocate nukes or anything crazy, but I do support the use of whatever force is necessary to bring my nation's enemies to extinction.

    * I wish Bush would stop playing politics are carry out his own "Bush Doctrine". Let's turn our backs on the Saudis and identify them as the enemy they are. I also hope that we go after Syria, Iran and anyone else involved with the support and aiding of terrorists.

    * My fear in all this though is that if we attack the Muslim world, albeit, in a piecemeal fashion--one nation at a time--we'll be perceived as enemies and haters of the Arab world and we could wind up getting caught in a genuine WWIII (which I'm sure was bin Laden's intention to begin with--the maniac thinks he can win). We need to mix brute force with subversive attacks and other kinds of pressure. Hopefully this will minimize the perception as the US as a bully to the Arab world by not bombing everyone in the area (regardless of how justified we might be).

    * I like to hear that people are asking God to bless America. But this is not a right we have. It is something that God gives out of His mercy. We should be thankful when He blesses and protects us (which I do every time we thwart an attack or catch another al Qaeda operative). We should also remind ourselves that any relationship is a two-way street. It isn't just about God blessing us, but about us blessing God.
     
  5. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

    Joined:
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    #5
    Re: My thoughts...

     
  6. Kethoticus macrumors 6502

    Kethoticus

    #6
    Bizarre...

    You misunderstood me. The extinction of our ENEMIES. Not all Arabs. There is a difference, no? At least I hope there is.


    Now I misunderstood you (I hope). Why would Himmler or Geuring say that about their leader? That doesn't make any sense. And how can you compare Hitler's ambitions for global domination with our right to self-defense? That's ridiculous. Unfortunately, our right to self defense involves many nations in the same region of the world. It looks bad when not looked at closely for what it is: self-reservation.


    Your definition of tyranny is different from mine, apparently. A man who gases his own people, jerks around the UN with broken promises for 10 years in order to construct a nuclear arsenal, a man who burnt the oil fields of Kuwait, a man who poisoned the seas around Kuwait, a man who... sheesh... I could go on and on. How are WE being tyrants? If tyranny is unacceptable, then why tolerate Saddam, the Saudi royalty, and others?

    WE were attacked. Brutally. I watched the plume of smoke from my apartment roof. Iran, Syria and others (possibly even China) are involved in trying to undermine my country. Why SHOULDN'T we defend ourselves?

    There's a time to be pacificistic and a time to attack. This is the time for the latter. Why? Because our enemies will not relent against us. If we lower our fists, they will raise theirs. We've seen what they're willing to do and the only reason it wasn't any worse a year ago was because they didn't have the capabilities. Anyone thinking that peaceful behavior on our parts will pacify these maniacs is in another world. All you need to do is look back 60s years for a great case in point. Anyone who feels that we need to cooperate with the world council in Manhattan should realize that the US first has a responsibility to itself. The UN is not a world government that we are subject to, but a council dedicated to world cooperation. And it is impotent even in that regard.

    If my house was robbed and my family raped and murdered, I would not wait for my neighbors to give me the permission to respond to the situation. They have nothing to say about it. If France or Germany or Iran or China or South Africa were attacked the way we were, do you think that they'd still be preaching restraint and peace and negotiation?


    I knew this would be misunderstood after I posted it. Badly worded. Let me clarify.

    We do have friends in the Arab world, or at least nations that tolerate us. I do not want to lose their aid or what limited trust they have in us by attacking their neighbors. But we still need to do something to stop those people who would knock down our buildings or poison our water supplies. It's a VERY difficult balance to achieve. That is what I meant to say.


    I believe that God has gone with us in our wars, the reason we've been successful most of the time. As a Bible-believing Christian, I do believe that God blesses some nations and knocks down others. I believe that if we continue to kick butt, it will be because God has gone out before us in battle. This is not about Christianity versus Islam. I believe the Lord has been with us in just about all of our wars, regardless of the religion of our enemy. Will He continue to do this? I hope so. If not, all of our military might will mean nothing.


    Look, I really resent these pacificist voices who say that the US has no right to wage war in its own self defense, and then totally twists what I'm saying. When someone stabs you and rapes your wife, reason with him, tell him that you can be friends, and don't seek justice for his crimes against you when he doesn't listen to you. That seems to be what you're advocating. Tell me I'm misunderstanding you.


    Bizarre interpretation of my call for self-defense. You're for taking out the terrorists but don't feel that we should attack those who support them? Just how do you propose that we do it? How do you reason with an enemy who has NO interest in reason and peace? How do you take someone out who has declared war on us WITHOUT taking the fight to him? Just how else are we supposed to do it? And please tell me how self-defense makes us an imperialist nation. And sorry if you don't like my mentioning God and saying that we need to thank Him for every victory we get, every disaster we manage to prevent. But people keep calling for God to bless America, and I felt a need to respond to that. Just how did you get "holy war" from that?


    Look, I appreciate what you're saying here. You don't want this to turn into a religious war. History has seen enough of those and that is exactly what it is to some of the maniacs we're fighting against. You don't want to see us go nuts and attack everybody in sight for the slightest provocation. Neither do I. I'd be ashamed to be an American if we started doing that.

    But, I do not see our current efforts as imperialist, but as fully understandable and justified. I really can not understand why you equate what we're doing with fascism (or are you saying only that my remarks sounded that way?). Please explain to me why you feel the way you do, why you seem to think we're crossing the line of self-defense to imperialism. Feel free to email me privately if you prefer.
     
  7. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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  8. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #8
    our acts of "self defense" were attacking the taliban/afghanistan. that's done (not entirely, but it's not the issue at hand for sure)... we're talking about attacking iraq when we have limited or no proof that he has anything to do with terrorism (at least specific to this case) or even that he has weapons of mass destruction

    i think most of the "pacifist" type voices here agree saddam is dangerous in general, and many might even agree that action could be taken if there were some specific reason (ie, not just oil) and all other diplomatic options were exhausted. do you really think that america's government is some special group of people who somehow know allllll sorts of things that the rest of the UN and allies don't know? i mean, that would have to be the case to explain why so very very few other folks support an attack on iraq.

    and sure, the gov't might not want to tell us specifics about what they know, but they'd have to tell other countries... and even still, other countries don't support it. do you really think bush is enlightened or something to the point that only he can see how dangerous saddam is yet everyone else is blind? hmmm

    as for how other countries would respond... yeah, they probably would do very little or nothing... at least france and germany.... the funny thing is, the US would probably be the ones telling them the loudest "don't retaliate, it's too dangerous" or something... and yet look at us now....

    remember in the gulf war when iraq missiled israel and we were all like 'hey, just suck it up israel'... well. they have already said they would retaliate if the same thing happens again, and with force.... that would get things going very very badly in that region. that would give other arab nations a "reason" to attack israel and then well... world war 3 type of situation.... i just don't see it unless we have large support and everything else has been exhausted.....

    good night. :)
     
  9. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

    Joined:
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    #9
    Two quick responses. First, the references to the Nazis and fascism is because you said that you though Bush should just ignore everyone and every other country, and just do what he wants. That sounds like a dictatorship.

    Second, if someone raped your wife and killed your kids, you have NO right to go hunt them down. Period. You have the right to seek justice through the criminal justice system. On the other hand, if you see someone attack your family, you respond with whatever force is necessary to stop them.

    Applying your analogy, you advocate that we not only hunt down and kill the people who attacked your family, but their co-workers, employers, family members, etc... merely because they might have supported that person.

    I'm not a pacifist, and I'm all for bombing the crap out of the people responsible for 9/11. I'm also all for preventing dangrous regimes from having the capability to kill millions and millions of people with one attack.

    However, I'm not for unilaterally, and merely on a hunch, starting wars against other nations.
     
  10. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #10
    On the level of pure technical skill, I would have to say that Eric Clapton is the best guitarist of all time. His ability to construct a lengthy, winding solo building up to a dramatic climax is unsurpassed.

    But Hendrix was more dynamic - he was the master of effects pedals and had a more bombastic style. He was unafraid to make mistakes, and although he was technically great, his early death fueled the myth that he was much greater than he really was.

    If I were stuck on a desert island and had the choice of having all of Clapton's albums and all of Hendrix's albums with me, I would choose Hendrix's. Unlike Clapton, he actually knew how to make a really good song. And although not quite as "good" a guitarist, the impact of his playing is more profound.

    Alex
     
  11. zorglub macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    Location:
    Paris France
    #11
    hi jello

    again in trouble with France...
    hope you're talking about French gov not about French peop...
    do u really think we have only wine and cheese ???

    look all the places in the world where u can find French troops under UNO mission or not... a lot...

    thats not so simple with 60 millions only country... cost a lot...
    of course we support u with this saddam affair, just be patient and give the gov some proofs... so he can justify to us. We are republic and democracy too, with no patriot act but with millions of musulmans... some heritage of the old colonial time...and, probably, with big experience and accurate perception of all the consequence.

    But we are not " traitres" and a long and deep friendship since your independance war is a reality. We don't forget what your country made for us, don't forget the reverse: it was a long time ago... but it was crucial.

    USA made Lafayette "Honor Citizen of United States" (1 of the only 4 aliens to be). We are all very honored with that.Thx...

    z
     
  12. krossfyter macrumors 601

    krossfyter

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    #12

    I have no frekin Idea where this came from and how it pertains to the topic but I definitly agree with this post. Hendrix is the god of all guitar greats.
     
  13. Kethoticus macrumors 6502

    Kethoticus

    #13
    Interesting responses...

    ...I don't agree with everything said, but I can see some of you guys are pretty thoughtful types. And I appreciate the flamelessness of the posts.

    The gentleman who said that Bush doesn't know everything, you are right. There's a claim made by Oliver North that the reason many do not want to see us attack Iraq is because they have a vested interest in it economically. But he provided no proof or specifics, just made the general comment.

    I don't know what else to say on this. I could try to address each point and counter-argument, but that just creates long, tiresome threads. I'll conclude by saying this: I'm praying that God leads our leaders to do the right thing, whatever that is, and that He will see to it that justice is done, ultimately. For those of you who believe as well, you might want to do the same (not to mention contacting your local reps to let them know how you feel and why).
     
  14. LimeiBook86 thread starter macrumors 604

    LimeiBook86

    Joined:
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    #14
    UPDATE!

    So do you guys like my picture, one, no like two of you said so, well do yah!? Answer me.

    And who is that person that wrote somethign about Guitar skills! WHA! Where did that come from!!!???:rolleyes:

    Nice conbersations, but since I have an attention spand of a 2 year old I can't sit here and read them, maybe I'll make Speech read it to me :)
     
  15. ejb190 macrumors 65816

    ejb190

    #15
    I like it! I like the use of the monochrome buildings versus the color flag. Keep drawing! You have some real talent there!
     
  16. King Cobra macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    #16
    >So do you guys like my picture, one, no like two of you said so, well do yah!? Answer me.

    The correct way of putting that is:
    "Now I just have one qustion...do you like my picture? Well, do yah, punks?" :eek:

    On all serious, I created some spectacular sh** in my elementary, that went beyond what I was taught in art class. And considering you are nearing 16, you sure have some drawing talent, as ejb pointed out.

    It's definately worth the look. I waited for the whole picture to load for a solid 4 minutes on dial-up, and it was well worth the wait. Keep drawin'. [​IMG]
     
  17. LimeiBook86 thread starter macrumors 604

    LimeiBook86

    Joined:
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    #17
    Thanks, I think I do draw very well, since I was younger I could draw great! Thanks for the feedback! :D
     

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