My very own teen angst thread!

Discussion in 'Community' started by themadchemist, Mar 8, 2004.

  1. themadchemist macrumors 68030

    themadchemist

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2003
    Location:
    Chi Town
    #1
    Yay! I can now join the ranks of esteemed members of this community and spill my guts before you guys. Sounds like fun...

    So, I've got this friend, for our purposes, Q. ;) Honestly, I'd give you a name, but we're both high profile enough on this campus that it would be easy enough to figure out who we are exactly if you go here (as some people do) and I don't yet want it getting back to her how I feel (or think I feel) yet.

    Well, I met her when I landed on the executive board of the student government. It's all great, you know, having been the first person (ever, I think) to land one of the vice presidencies as a freshman. However, it meant that the girls around were all in a higher class than me...And they were all incredibly attractive, but that's a plus!

    Anyway, for a long time I was never interested in Q. A lot of guys just can't get her out of their heads. She was voted hottest girl in the Senate last year, and for pretty good reason. I'm not usually attracted to East Asian girls, but I can acknowledge that she is very attractive.

    But we became good friends from studying in the student govt. office really late together during Spring Quarter of last year. We really got to know each other pretty well. Plus, she's just like me--Very idealistic, a populist, and really interested in fighting for students. If you knew me, you would know that that's outrageously attractive for me. She's also very smart--A Truman Fellowship finalist, in fact. So smart, pretty, passionate about things I care about, pretty good, huh? Better than ol' me could ever get, I'd argue.

    I would never have considered me having any kind of chance with her, but we flirt a lot. I mean, she flirts with everybody quite a bit, I'd say. I'm realistic about that. But the thing that surprises me is that I engage in this also instead of just feeling embarrassed and turning away--as I usually would. She's the first girl I can really feel comfortable doing that with. I don't know why.

    So the student govt. executive board went out to dinner at some swanky downtown chicago restaurant (N9NE?) on Friday to celebrate the birthdays of two of our own, including Q. It was fun, but afterwards, some of us went down to this bar for more laughs. It was a good time, Q continued to flirt with me and one of the other guys there. He's got a girlfriend, though, so he tried to keep it at a minimum ;)

    Then we got onto the uncomfortable topic of whom on the executive board each of us would most like to sleep with. We all passed around the topic, I got accused of sleeping with old administrators, and then we put it to bed, no one having answered the question. I honestly wouldn't have been able to give much of an answer, because I wasn't sure.

    After the bar, some of us from the bar headed over to a coffee shop. As we left the bar, I put my arm around Q and she put hers around me and we walked down the street together. Now, it's a huge deal for me to feel comfortable enough to do something like that, let me tell you. But we got to talking, and she asked me if she was the person I picked from the above conversation. I said, "Absolutely." And she responded that I was just saying that, and I would have said that to any of the girls on the board. I assured her that THAT wasn't true, and we dropped the subject (or it dropped itself, really). Then, at the coffee shop, I got into the booth next to her and she looked at me and said, "oh, I'm too high maintenance for you." I agreed with her enthusiastically and described how much MORE high maintenance she was than my means could allow for. Now she turned things around and tried to convince me that she wasn't high maintenance and she asked me if I felt any differently about her after tonight...I was a bit surprised at first, but then I realized she was asking whether I thought she was any more approachable...See, she always claims about being unapproachable in guys' eyes. I told her she was still as unapproachable as ever and laughed. Then we got to talking about other stuff. Now you have to keep in mind that this was her 21st birthday, so she'd had a "bit" to drink. I mean, she could still walk in a straight line and answer foreign policy questions (for her interview) about Iraq, India, Pakistan, and the United Nations, so she was relatively coherent.

    After this litany of questions, she started getting kind of tired, though. She kept putting her head on my shoulder and napping, which some have told me means that she feels safe around me. I don't know how to interpret it.

    At the bar, she had also given me what seemed to have been a hint. She suddenly asked my friend and me whether we took looks into account when considering a person romantically. And obviously, we answered yes. She said she didn't...Which bodes well for someone like me. :D Then she mentioned that what really attracted her is someone who could challenge her intellectually. She followed this up with the fact that she had found no one at Northwestern who could do that. Of course, my buddy and I now made fun of her for thinking that everyone at this prestigious university was an idiot. However, I got to thinking about it...Guys, I'm a frikin' bio major. She's poli sci. Yet she was asking me for all this advice as to what she should write about in a paper about affirmative action. I gave her both sides, provided her sources, everything. She came back to me with her own arguments and I was able to debate it out with her, question her data, and show that it wasn't all that informative and explain why. I mean, I challenged her intellectually the very frikin' night before. So I don't know if she was trying to tell me something.

    So whatever, I figured it was in my head except that some of my friends to whom I described this said that I should go for it. Well, she was having another birthday party at the aforementioned friend's house that night. I decided I wouldn't go because I had to study and because I didn't have much by way of clean clothing at this point. From what I'm told, there were around fifty people there. I had told her earlier that I had some reading to do and I wouldn't be able to make it. Well, around 1 AM, when there were still some dozens of people there, she called me specifically and demanded that I show up. I thought it was interesting that she would remember me specifically.

    I don't know, maybe it's just that we're good friends and feel comfortable around each other. Maybe it doesn't mean anything more. I certainly wouldn't want to wreck our friendship or make things awkward by making a move. Maybe I'm not even interested her romantically--I dunno. I'm pretty sure I am, though, and I definitely think she's a really really great person. I'm really bad with all this crap. I've been on one date in my life and I have been in no relationships. That date wasn't really even a date, to tell you the truth. Only in the loosest sense that it was a girl and I doing something by ourselves...Dinner and a movie, but we were just friends.

    So, some advice for a stupid fart like me?
     
  2. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Yahooville S.C.
    #2
    What are you waiting for? a sign around her neck? Rejection can be tough but you have to be honest with her and yourself. Let her know how you feel about her and see what happens. Worst case scenario it dont work out, best case is you will have a Great Girl.
     
  3. Dippo macrumors 65816

    Dippo

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2003
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    #3
    Wow, she sounds like she is even out of my league.

    Word of advice:

    You must do one of two things...

    1..
    Tell her how you feel (you can do this with words or with a kiss)
    She with either slap you or return the affection.

    2..
    You can preserve your friendship and completely drop it.
    Just get rid of the feelings and totally forget about dating her.

    UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES..
    DO NOT continue to have "feelings" for her and do nothing about it. Trust me you will hate yourself for it. Either do (1) or (2).

    Any Questions?
     
  4. themadchemist thread starter macrumors 68030

    themadchemist

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2003
    Location:
    Chi Town
    #4
    Hey guys, yeah, yeah, I know, I know...You're right. Look, my biggest fear is that I wreck my friendship. If this was just some random chick, I think I'd feel better about it. But we're good friends, that's not something I want to screw up.

    Additionally, we'll probably both be on the executive board again next year. We're going to be the two most experienced people in non-parliamentary positions. She'll likely be President and I'm running for re-election. So I don't want to screw up the group dynamic on that board when the two of us should be the ones holding things together and providing experience. Awkwardness wouldn't be a good thing for anyone in that position.

    And Dippo, you're right, I could stifle myself here...But I don't know if that would be the right thing to do or me being honest with myself.
     
  5. Dippo macrumors 65816

    Dippo

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2003
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    #5

    Yea, I know how you feel. I had a good friend that I was "infatuated" with for years, and I am still pretty sure that she liked me...but alas I did nothing about it. Of course I did move on to bigger and better things and we are still friends (she's about to be married), but I still wonder "what if".

    Maybe you could give us a little more info on Q.
    Does she date alot?
    Has she had a lot of boyfriends?
    Does she flirt a lot with lots of guys?
     
  6. Powerbook G5 macrumors 68040

    Powerbook G5

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Location:
    St Augustine, FL
    #7
    Sounds like you are both really close and I doubt she'd reject you if you asked her out from the sound of things. Besides, if you cannot honestly feel comfortable enough to actually tell her how you feel and ask her out, then it will never work since you need to be able to feel able to communicate your feelings with her in a relationship and comfortable enough to make any sort of move.
     
  7. iGav macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2002
    #8
    :eek: :p :p :p :p
     
  8. MongoTheGeek macrumors 68040

    MongoTheGeek

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2003
    Location:
    Its not so much where you are as when you are.
    #9
    I will give you the same advice that I have given a number of people in the same situation but didn't learn to take until much much later in life.

    Go for it. Tell her she is hot, recite poetry. Be a man and stand up. She called you drunk at 1am to go to a party. She did everything but show up naked in your bed.
     
  9. Dros macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2003
    #10
    Ahh, excellent! I was going to have to fine you for having an "angst" thread without liberal use of ellipsis (...) to indicate confusion and doubt. Your first message was almost lacking them completely, but now you have a few! Keep going and soon we'll have the "return of g30ffr3y"!

    Listen, she "naps" on your shoulder? How frequently does someone fall asleep when in a group? Sure, it was late, but 100% of the time when that happens it is because the person is trying to initiate some bodily contact. That should tell you two things. 1) She likes you. 2) She is a little awkward herself in social situations to use a ploy like that. She may be a huge flirt, but it sounds like that is a surface mechanism she has developed to allay her own insecurities.

    Point two. You put your arm around her and she reciprocated. First, congratulations on making a move. That shows you actually have some guts. Second, how many signals do you need? If she didn't like you but didn't want to hurt your feelings, you would have been the subject of some obvious stunt like her suddenly wanting to talk to someone behind her and magically escaping from your perspiring armpit.

    Point three. She asks if she was the person you'd most want to sleep with? Of course she says you would say that anyone. But people don't bring up titillating topics for no reason.

    Point four. She calls you at 1 am to come to a party.

    What more can I say? You seem like a smart guy. Time to go study some Biology!

    If it helps, I was in your shoes. She was/is a beautiful, smart, Harvard educated girl... Guess what? Now we are married. So don't be intimidated. Feel lucky that even smart, pretty ones have bad taste and can pick a loser!
     
  10. themadchemist thread starter macrumors 68030

    themadchemist

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2003
    Location:
    Chi Town
    #11
    Does she date a lot?
    A little...She's very busy and I remember her saying once that she didn't date much partially because a less-busy romantic interest wouldn't be pleased with her over-packed schedule. As I said, she also complains about being considered unapproachable/unattainable, something her friends (including me) give her a lot of crap about.

    Has she had a lot of boyfriends?
    Not a one during her time at Northwestern.

    Does she flirt a lot with lots of guys?
    My impression is "Yes." I feel that in general, she's a pretty flirty girl and that she comes off as flirting even when she isn't. I mean, the flirting I described was pretty overt, but I've told her before that she probably sends signals to guys that could easily be misinterpreted. This, actually, has been my main cause of hesitation in moving forward. I do think that this flirtation, while more significant than that which she engages in with most guys, is not a precise signal. That much of it COULD have been alcohol-induced doesn't help either.

    And see, it's this core set of data (God, I'm reducing this to some sort of study; I've got to remind myself that this isn't dopamine modulation :p ) that gives me most pause...I keep coming back to this idea that I'm probably conforming the set of information to the findings I'd like to see. Of course, you guys have a more objective standpoint here and everybody seems to be telling me to go for it! But either way, it's a gamble and both a personal and professional relationship with a very good person are at stake, here.

    On an upside, we're going out to lunch sometime in the next week once she gets back from her Truman interview in Phoenix. It's not much of anything, but it's a start. All this stuff is very new to me, so don't crush me for moving too slowly.
     
  11. poopyhead macrumors 6502a

    poopyhead

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Location:
    in the toe-jam of greatness (Fort Worth)
    #12
    Just wanted to point out that alcohol simply helps people loose their inhibitions, it doesn't typically create emotions or affections that don't otherwise lie somewhere below the surface. While she may have been inebriated, the emotions and fondness she showed towards you were most likely real and not simply some reaction to the alcohol.

    Further, I've been in the exact situation as you. I was a biology major, she was polisci. Instead of Northwestern it was Emory but she was from Chicago. She was high maintenance: private schools, horsey and tennis lessons, and haircuts (or whatever women call them) that cost more per appointment (yes I said appointment) than I had ever spent in my life at Benny's Barber Shop. Anyways, to make a long story short, five years later I'm still with her. I'm exceedingly shy, not in most public situations but in situations such as you have mentioned with Q, I simply don't usually know what the proper response is. However, after my girlfriend kinda made the first move such as Q did in your story I moved back. What I did was I made small moves which could easily be retracted or laughed off if I viewed her reaction to such moves to be negative or uncomfortable, such as going with her to Little 5 Points and buying her flowers from a street guy. It was something endearing but at the same time retractable thus the friendship could be saved if her reaction wasn't what I expected.
     
  12. Stelliform macrumors 68000

    Stelliform

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    #13
    The way I see it she seems lonely (if she hasn't dated much), she just turned 21 so she is feeling old to be unattached, and that she likes you.

    You have been playing it cool, aloof, and hard to get.

    Just ask her on a date, see what happens. Don't make a big deal about it. Say you feel like catching a movie, and ask her if she would like to come. If she says sure then great, if she says lets also ask so and so, just say, well I was kind of thinking it could be just you and me....

    Then she will know your intentions and and she with either let you down and say she doesn't feel that way, (And you can still play it cool and said you were just curious that she might be interested) or she will say, about time!

    Give it a shot, from where I am sitting you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

    Edit: And Poopyhead seems to know what he is talking about. Listen to him. :) Except his name is something I call my 3 year old. :rolleyes: :D
     
  13. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    #14
    this can be two things here. either she is interested in you, or your becoming, as my friend calls it "the gay friend." just another term for a gal pal. if she is worth pursuing then do it, but remember if you get rejected it might be awkward and hard to go back to the way things are. just simply keep your pimp game on, get her number, call her a week later, set up a date and see how it goes. you will be able to tell alot from that first date. good luck. remember, if you are interested try not to make everytime you see her in a groupe activity or whatever it was you did. have fun. also remember, the worse she can say is "your like my brother, we can't date, can we be friends." that is when you say "peace, i already have enough friends."

    iJon
     
  14. darkblue macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #15
    Hmm in my opinion (as a girl), I think you should be very careful with what you decide to do. Sure you might end up with an awesome girlfriend who is everything that you would want in a girlfriend...or as time goes on, you may realise that you care about her friendship so much that you wouldn't want to risk it.

    I'm sure there's no rush, just wait and see how things go as time goes on. And iJon's right, don't get so caught up in it all that you don't end up having fun. :)

    Good luck!
     
  15. Capt Underpants macrumors 68030

    Capt Underpants

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2003
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    #16
    Well, if you wanted her to know your feelings without you telling her directly, you could just link her to this page ;)
     
  16. Opteron macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2004
    Location:
    South Australia
    #17
    Go in guns blazing:p

    If you get shot down at least you know you gave it your best shot.
     
  17. Stelliform macrumors 68000

    Stelliform

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    #18
    What ever happened to marrying your best friend? ;) (Uhh, in the non San Francisco way. ;))
     
  18. Daveman Deluxe macrumors 68000

    Daveman Deluxe

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2003
    Location:
    Corvallis, Oregon
    #19
    How interesting. This sounds so much like what I went through last term, only we're both music majors. She's the only girl I've ever met I can honestly say I completely fell head over heels for. She is sweet, funny, beautiful, intelligent, and I could tell she really cared about me. A month or so after I met her, I knew I was in love with her, and I thought maybe she was interested in me too.

    I shortly got up the balls to ask her out. The first couple of times I asked her out, she had family things going on and couldn't go (she wasn't lying), but the third time I asked, it finally came to it and she told me she wasn't interested. I was disappointed but not heartbroken (that came later and is beyond the scope of this post). She was very kind about it, thankfully--she didn't try to make excuses or belittle me, she just said "I'm not interested."

    We've become the most amazing friends since then, though. I love her and she loves me. I say that not to imply that there's romance between us, but to say that our bond is that strong. The other day we were talking about when I asked her out, and she told me that she remembers telling her friend "I don't want to go out with him. I want to know him." She knew that she just wanted to be an amazing friend, and that if we were dating, it probably wouldn't have worked out that way. Of course, she was right. :D There is no way we would be this great of friends if we were dating. Maybe someday we'll fall in love romantically, but for now, I'm not really concerned with that.

    I guess the moral of my story is that it's not really worth fretting over. If you really like her that much, just ask her to go do something like have coffee or ice cream or something. It's low pressure and it's a good way to get a feel for what your relationship is like. Just keep on doing low pressure things together and see where things go. Have fun, and don't get too deep into it for awhile. If things start to get deeper, they should get deeper because that's where things are going, not because you have to make it happen.
     
  19. Awimoway macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2002
    Location:
    at the edge
    #20
    I heard recently that kids these days just aren't the same as those of a generation or two ago. They rarely date. Mostly they just hang out together. "Dating" sounds so damn formal. It makes a tense situation even worse. Who the hell wants the stress of having to call someone up and ask them on a date? It makes it sound like something that requires formals and a corsage. Sheesh.

    I heard another interesting stat--I even remember the source for this one: Dr. Drew Pinsky. He said that college men get liquored up to work up the courage to get girls in bed. Girls get liquored up to be able to endure being another man's meat for the night. His point is that girls want more than a physical relationship, but they feel like that's what they have to settle for. They want someone to talk to, to spend time with, to be with. Guys tend to think of things on a strictly physical level. I don't know if becoming "the gay friend" is a real problem or a myth propagated by men who don't realize that being a good friend in addition to being a lover is the right thing to do (and the tasty way to do it :D).

    My point? You're putting too much pressure on yourself. Just hang out with her. Don't think of it as some formal process where you have to ask her out. Just do stuff with her. She called you over to a party. Do the same. See where it leads. It's low pressure and you'll both be happy. Be as flirtatious as you dare and I'm pretty sure she'll get the hint. And if it leads to more, I guarantee that will come naturally. The only danger is if she's someone who needs to know where she stands, who wants you to "be the man" and declare your love for her or something. And I can't answer that. But if she is that type, then just hanging out with her will start to annoy her after a while. But that's a risk you take. Better to straddle the fence on this and do things carefully since you'll have to be around her for another year in a more professional setting.
     
  20. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    #21
    oh i completly agree, you should be great friends when going out as well, or else its going to be a crappy relationship. its just the problem many guys make (many of my friends) is they become the "gay friend" before making a move and then the girls loose romantic and physical interest in them. the girl I am with now is a great example. she had a boyfriend and sometimes talked to me about his flaws, i listened but didnt get to involved. i asked her to go the film festival with me weeks later and she had just broken up with her guy that day. so after the festival i made my move and it went on from there. we tell each other many things, and are great close friends, but the attraction is still there. a bad example would be my friend kash (if you remember from my thread from the wreck). he has a back brace on and gets lots of attention from girls, he talks to them about their problems and things like that. he thinks they like him, but he is just their gay friend. this is why he has been rejected for prom 3 times and i am going with the first girl i asked, and ive had other girls come out and say they want to go with me. its all how you play your cards, but your right, times have changed.

    iJon
     
  21. tpjunkie macrumors 65816

    tpjunkie

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2002
    Location:
    NYC
    #22
    That statement about guys getting liquored up to get the balls to approach the girls is so true.

    (see my entries on pages 20-91 of the drunk thread) ;)
     
  22. agreenster macrumors 68000

    agreenster

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2001
    Location:
    Walt Disney Animation Studios
    #23
    Dude. She wanted you. That night. Take my word for it.

    Might've missed your chance...
     
  23. Dippo macrumors 65816

    Dippo

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2003
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    #24
    Yea, this would give me pause as well. She might just be a very friendly person to everyone...

    All of that flirting with you might be exactly what she does with every guy "friend"...Girls (women) are so confusing...

    But since she doesn't date much and hasn't had a boyfriend lately, you might be safe just being friends for awhile. I would suggest spending LOTS of time with her getting to really know her and letting her get to really know you.

    I don't think that there is anything that requires rushing into, because getting to know her on a mental level before getting physical... will have a lot of benefits.

    EDIT: (w00t! 500th post)
     
  24. codycartoon macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2002
    #25
    Ignore her, she will want you 10x more.

    What ever you do, don't be overbearing.

    -cody
     

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