Never In America

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by chanoc, Oct 24, 2004.

  1. chanoc macrumors 6502

    chanoc

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    #1
  2. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

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    #2
    That link didn't work for me, but this CNN one does.

    Edit: your link has invisible extra characters at the end; remove them, and the link works.
     
  3. chanoc thread starter macrumors 6502

    chanoc

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    #3
    Thank you! It is fixed now, caused by a space in the URL's end. :)
     
  4. JLS macrumors 6502

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    #4
    Well.. having the powers of the mighty dark side might come in handy...
     
  5. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    So England, which the puritans fled because of religious intolerance, is now more tolerant than the US. hmm.

    I think it's great. He should have just as much right as anyone else to follow his own spiritual path. Of course, which particular sect of Satanism it is would affect my personal opinion of him... If it's the atheist group that uses Satan as an opposing icon to Christianity, more power to him. If it's the (really tiny) group that believes in the biblical Satan, he's an idiot. But a free idiot, nonetheless...

    paul
     
  6. brap macrumors 68000

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    Land of the free, home of the brave, where freedom of speech and worship rule supreme. Nah, me either.
     
  7. Mr_Ed macrumors 6502

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    Actually, I think satanists would be allowed to pursue their religion, even in the military in the U.S. If they were not, I believe any court in the country would uphold their constitutional right to do so. I could be wrong, but I don't believe the U.S. military forces any religious doctrine on anyone, so it probably isn't even an issue. As long as an individual can practice (engage in prayer or other rituals) his religion and can provide instructions about what kind of funeral he wants or does not want, I suspect most people (of whatever religion) simply don't make an issue out of it.
     
  8. JRam macrumors member

    JRam

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    #8
    Don't ask don't tell is somehow going through my mind right now... I imagine that would be about the US's stance on that.

    JRam
     
  9. Mechcozmo macrumors 603

    Mechcozmo

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    Honestly, if we don't allow a gay or lesbian to fight we should allow a Satanist because it is more right...

    Sometimes the US of A is just plain wackko, to the 10th power. I can't say I am a fan of that religion but hey, so long as he doesn't hurt anyone and doesn't encourage others to hurt...I guess I am fine with it.
     
  10. garybUK Guest

    garybUK

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    He's probably there on orders of 'the dark side' aka Microsoft to stop the windows 2000 controlled ship from BSOD(ing) :p
     
  11. combatcolin macrumors 68020

    combatcolin

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    #11
    If you had an image of what a satanist is, i bet this bloke is about a millon miles away from it and moans that his team get beat every saturday like the rest of us.

    And, and you lot had Waco so don't get all uppity.

    (On a last note, wonder if he does listen to Judas Priest backwards? :) )
     
  12. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    #12
    I wouldn't be so sure, evil is a very strong force. At least the way American beliefs are at the moment we are safe from that practice. In the future I'm not so sure. Such a sad thing to happen. :(
     
  13. rueyeet macrumors 65816

    rueyeet

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    I dunno; pagans are allowed to have their rituals on military bases, and there's at least one practicing Wiccan coven I've heard of on a base in Texas.

    Not that Wicca and Satanism are at all the same thing, of course.

    From what I understand, the tenets of the Church of Satan basically reverse the Christian teachings that place the spiritual over the wordly, and the idea that physical deprivation--fasting, chastity, etc--are paths to greater holiness. I've never given much credit to that idea, either, but the complete self-gratification advocated by La Vey's brand of Satanism is, in my opinion, repellent.

    Still, as long as Cranmer's not causing anyone harm, freedom of religion applies. From the article:

    Doesn't sound like he's one of the Biblically-oriented Satanists, either:

     
  14. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    #14
    Such a sad thing that a man should be able to believe in what he chooses, but still be able to serve his country?

    Honestly, religion already causes enough divides in the world, no matter what your beliefs, if you believe in your country you should be able to fight for it should you want to.
     
  15. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

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    #15
    Well, since the primary focus of his religion is that one's ultimate goal should be self gratification, it seems like that might conflict somewhat with serving any other person or state....
     
  16. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    OK, so should I be worried about all those pesky christians and their goody goody morals, their beliefs say that it is wrong to kill another man, and that you should forgive. Should I worry about some nut having a sudden attack of consciousness and not pulling the trigger at that vital moment?
     
  17. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

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    #17
    Sorry, my comment was intended to be followed by a ' ;) '.... In fact, I think that someone acting purely with their own best interests in mind is at least as likely to follow orders as someone with concerns about the morality of shooting the person who is trying to kill them.
     
  18. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    #18
    Exactly, it makes no difference. Both should either be as trusted or not trusted as one another (though maybe for different reasons), and have equal right to serve their county for whatever reason, so long as they pass recruitment/induction etc.
     
  19. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

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    #19
    We agree. Upstanding Christian soldiers could fight to defend the virtues of fine lasses like Keira from the godless heathens. Satanists could fight to protect hot chicks like Keira so they might have a chance with them later. And the rest could fight so they could just make it back home to see Keira in her next movie.
     
  20. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    #20
    Now we're on the same page ;) :D
     
  21. zelmo macrumors 603

    zelmo

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    #21
    Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Satanist....an individual's religion (or sexual pref or hair color, for that matter) should have nothing to do with whether or not they can or should be allowed to serve their country. As long as his rituals do not pose a threat to anyone else, and he is capable of/willing to follow the orders of his commanding officer, who cares?
     
  22. Mr_Ed macrumors 6502

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    #22
    Absolutely right! 'Religion' should not be a measure of an individual's sense of patriotism, or his morals, or the more I think about it, pretty much anything else.
     
  23. VIREBEL661 macrumors regular

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    I'm kind of an expert on this :)... Satanism, as in the Church of Satan, as in Anton LaVey, is more akin to a form of humanism. The individual is all powerful - question all things - live in the here and now, etc. It uses the imagery to kind of represent that it is the polar opposite of a typical organized religion where you worship a god, gods, etc. Again, in this respect the individual is all powerful - and for the record animals (and even children also) are sacred. No harm should ever come to an innocent person, animal etc. The imagery is actually kind of the 'fun' part. It's just fun acting out rituals, etc - something that human beings need - a kind of dogma. But the reality is, it's a 'religion' of complete freedom, total tolerance, total expression, and indulgence.

    I think this is what the person in the article practices. However, there are many misguided people that use the christian version of the devil to do horrible things. To somebody from the Church of Satan, these people are really just christians in disguise, as a 'real' Satanist would never live up to a christian explanation of what they believe. Am I making myself clear? It's basically saying that kids who do this stuff in the name of their favorite metal band or whatever are really doing what the christians say they should to be a devil worshipper, thereby being totally influenced and controlled by the christian church, which is the opposit of Satanism (there's no worship in Satanism - the individual is the highest power). Just my two cents. I want to say that these kinds of discussions end up with a lot of misinformation - and I'm so far impressed with everyone on this group not rushing to judgement. Live and let live I say!
     
  24. VIREBEL661 macrumors regular

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    Keira is red hot. I would like to see a LOT more of her....;)
     
  25. MarkCollette macrumors 68000

    MarkCollette

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    #25
    Lucky for him, that the pesky duty of self-sacrifice is offset by the glorious joy of killing others. :rolleyes:
     

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