New 1.8GHz vs Old 1.8GHz

Discussion in 'Buying Tips, Advice and Discussion (archive)' started by aykew, Jun 9, 2004.

  1. aykew macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    #1
    I've got a dilemma to ponder. I think 1.8Ghz is going to be my magic number, but which configuration to get? Within the constrains of my budget, I can do either of the following (they are the same price +/- $3):

    Configuration 1:
    New 1.8GHz G5 (Low end motherboard, no PCI-X, 4 RAM slots)
    2.0GB RAM (4x512MB, with stock 256mb left over)
    450GB HD (Western Digital 200GB + 250GB, stock 80GB left over)

    Configuration 2:
    Old 1.8GHz G5 (High end motherboard with PCI-X and 8 RAM slots)
    2.5GB RAM (4x512MB + stock 512MB)
    360 HD (Western Digital 200GB + stock 160GB)

    I don't think I'll add more ram before I get my next upgrade after this, and I can't see myself needing PCI-X. I wouldn't mind the extra HD space, though. My big question is this: Configured identically, will the new 1.8 perform as well as the old 1.8 given it's new, cheaper design? The other question is if I'll miss the extra 512MB in config 2. (I routinely have Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Illustrator, Internet Explorer, Safari, some variant of mozilla, iTunes, Word, and Mail open at the same time)

    I hope to run some of my own benchmarks soon when the Tigard Apple Store gets their floor models in, but any speculation/insight/advice would be very much appreciated.
     
  2. adamcoop macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2002
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    #2
    Go for the old one - I mean it is a better machine.
     
  3. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    #3
    Go for an old one... the 4 extra DIMM slots are worth the money.

    Of course if the new ones are quiet, then are the DIMMs worth giving up for some peace.
     
  4. QCassidy352 macrumors G3

    QCassidy352

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Location:
    Bay Area
    #4
    the "stock 512" in your second config means 2x 256, right? 'cause you can't have an unpaired 512 chip.

    The new one does have an 8x superdrive, in case that matters to you.

    But the old one has a better graphics card, more RAM slots, and PCI-X. I think it's better in every way except the superdrive.
     
  5. adamjay macrumors 6502a

    adamjay

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    #5
    barefeats shows that the difference in performance between different RAM configurations above 2GB is miniscule.

    also, consider how much $$ you may get off ebay for selling the 80GB and 256MB ram.. maybe $100 total. use that toward apple care , or you could use it to also upgrade to ATI 9600, and Bluetooth which would up the resell value in 5 years when you want to sell it.
     
  6. Jo-Kun macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Location:
    Antwerp-Belgium
    #6
    I have the old one, and when I saw the new one now... I'm glad I have the old one ;-)

    maybe in the future I need PCI-X or more than 4GB of ram

    and since only the dual 2,5Ghz gets the water cooling... I think the other ones make the same noise and I even think the dual 2,5 makes the same noise since it needs more cooling wich is provided by the liquid cooling, but still get all the fans ;-)

    but If you don't need +4GB ram or PCI-X go for the new one since its cheaper and you can buy more extras for that money...

    if you get the old dual 1,8 one at the same price wich the new dual 2ghz has now and you're willing to pay that price, get the dual 2Ghz, its newer, has everything the 1,8ghz has but you get the newer superdrive and a little faster processing speed wich you won't notice anyway... I compared mine with a friends dual 2ghz and the differences were not really noticable.

    if you get the old dual 1,8 at a price wich gets near to the new one, get the old one ;-)

    and about the left-over hardware: put it on eBay, some one will buy it and you get a little money back...

    Toast tells me that my SuperDrive is a 8X but I haven't tested it yet... my G5 is 2months old now I couldn't wait for anything new to come since my Ti-Book got stolen :-S
     
  7. titaniumducky macrumors 6502a

    titaniumducky

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    #7
    Unless the new ones are quieter, get the old one.
     
  8. dho macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2003
    Location:
    California
    #8
    If the volume level is very important to you, you may want to get the newers one. Otherwise the older one seems like a much better bet.

    I might suggest you wait until some people are able to test these out and compare the volume if that is a concern.

    I wish i was in a position of chosing between g5's. i currently have a 450 mhz machine :(
     
  9. svenr macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    #9
    That really depends on what projects you're working on in Photoshop / Illustrator. I routinely have all the other apps open on my iBook too with "only" 640MB RAM and it works very smoothly. So my take is, if you only do some "hobby photoshopping" (files <100MB) even 2GB will be overkill.
     
  10. aykew thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    #10
    Thanks for all the help! (Mac users are the best... so helpful!) Of course, as with most things, this actually brings up more questions than it answers. I didn't realize the superdrive was new... that has its appeal, but more for CD burning.

    Does anyone know if the 1.8GHz processor in the new G5s is the new 90nm (970fx, I think they call it) or the old 130nm? I just assumed it was the later, but I guess now that I think about it, I guess I shouldn't. Does a smaller die size run cooler, therefore quieter? If they are the same processor, why would the new ones be cooler?

    Also, QCassidy mentioned that the new ones had weaker video cards than the old ones, and I've read the opposite elsewhere. To me, it at least appears that the new and the old both use a (lame) NVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra.

    Oh, and yes I do occasionally work on files as large as 300MB (high res composites with lots of channels, masks, and layers) but I don't think any other program's docs are nearly that memory intensive, so I think I'll be able to get by on 2GB... maybe. ;)
     
  11. Jo-Kun macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Location:
    Antwerp-Belgium
    #11
    I just checked my dual 1.8Ghz SuperDrive... its the Pioneer DVR-107... wich according to Pioneer is a 8X... so they added a 8x without mentioning it... I bought it 2months ago... thinking I got the 4x :-D

    so I think the superdrive is not the issue to make a difference (but check before you buy :p) ;-)
     
  12. adamjay macrumors 6502a

    adamjay

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    #12
    only the new 2.5ghz utilizes the 90nm .
    it requires liquid cooling because a smaller die running FASTER needs to be cooled FASTER.
     
  13. MitchJi macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    #13
    Hi,

    Wasn't that just for FCP rendering?

    Might not apply for other programs.

    Definitely won't apply if you have a ton of apps open at the same time.

    Best Wishes,

    Mitch
     
  14. allroy macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    #14
    They all have the new 90nm G5 chips...

    State-of-the-Art Process Technology from IBM The PowerPC G5 is fabricated in one of IBM’s world-class semiconductor manufacturing facilities. It uses 90-nanometer circuitry with more than 400 meters (1300 feet) of ultrathin copper wiring—less than 1/1000 the width of a human hair.With more than 58 million transistors, a high-performance silicon-on-insulator (SOI) process for faster operation, and copper interconnects for improved conductivity, this scalable design contributes to clock speeds of up to 2.5GHz.

    Also the new g5's have an independant bus for each processor, I believe the rev a's had a single bus. Plus updated system / memory controllers, blah blah. I want to see a duel of the duals!
     
  15. adamjay macrumors 6502a

    adamjay

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Location:
    Indianapolis
  16. Rod Rod macrumors 68020

    Rod Rod

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    #16
    the version A G5s also have an independent bus for each processor. this is shown in the power mac g5 video shown at wwdc last year and subsequently on the web, as well as the diagram of the system architecture which has been on Apple's site since June 2003.
     
  17. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #17
    Not to hijack the thread, but still along the lines of new verses old G5 PM.

    The rev. B G5 PM site info make reference to:

    [qoute]

    new Mac OS X setup assistant helps you effortlessly move user accounts, system preferences, documents and applications from an old Mac to a new Power Mac G5 — and the transfer is FireWire fast.

    [/qoute]

    I take it this feature is not available on the older model? Been trying to search for info, and found nothing on it.

    Thanks for the help...
     
  18. aykew thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    #18
    Yep, it's new! Check out this MacFixIt article for details.
     
  19. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #19
    Many thanks to a newbie!

    Bummer that it is first and only offered on the new systems. If the older models had it, I might just jump on the closeouts.

    Not sure if an install of my Carbon Copy Cloner backup of my PB 12" rev B with all the updates to 10.3.4 would work on the G5 PM's.
     
  20. neonart macrumors 65816

    neonart

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Location:
    Near a Mac since 1993.
    #20
    Im in exactly the same dilemma. The Old Dual 1.8's are available refurb for $1799 while the new ones BOT without a Superdrive are $1899. I have an 8X superdrive, a 10K Raptor and 1GB of Ram waiting for whatever machine I get...

    The real questions are is the new chip an FX or not? Is it any faster?

    In reality, for the masses 8 or 4 RAM slots and PCI or PCI-X are not major concerns.
     
  21. Jovian9 macrumors 68000

    Jovian9

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Location:
    Planet Zebes
    #21
    Is it just me or does it seem like the 1.8 and 2.0 PowerMacs were kept here only so that in a few months they could add either a 2.2/2.3/2.4 into the lineup? That way they could have another upgrade since they do not expect the 3GHz models anytime soon but maxed out the speed with the 2.5 to promote sales. Just a curious move to not include something in b/t 2 & 2.5.
     
  22. neonart macrumors 65816

    neonart

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Location:
    Near a Mac since 1993.
    #22
    Just ordered mine!

    Well after searching I bought an open box return of the old DP 1.8 for $1950 shipped. The box was damaged, but the machine is 100% ok and carries a full warranty. It's not a spectacular deal, but it's pretty good.

    So by next week sometime I'll end up with a DP 1.8 with 1.5GB RAM, 1-36GB 10K Raptor, 1-160GB HD, and a Radeon 9800 (128MB retail 4X). Im exited. :D
     
  23. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Yahooville S.C.
    #23
    Congrats you have a very nice machine, im still torn on what to do so ill do nothing at the moment but Jovian 9 makes a very interesting observation and i also wnder what happened to all those chips between 2.0 and 2.5 maybe imac? maybe next revision powermac
     
  24. allroy macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    #24
    I agree...

    it is a more than a little deceiving, looked like the new 1.8 and 2.0's were the new 90nm chips, but it doesn't look that way after a lot more research. If they were new chips, I would be fine with the other downgrades from the previous models, but the fact it's the same 130nm chip, is a bit... :rolleyes:

    I think if Apple would have had the lowend be 2, they could at least have an all 2 and higher lineup. at this point I doubt they will release an inbetween model for the 2 and 2.5. It looks like the next will be a 2.8, then 3.

    This is definently a curious time, we shall see I guess.
     
  25. aykew thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    #25
    After getting to play with one of the new 1.8 today at my friendly local retailer (an Apple reseller, but not an official store), I think I've finally made a firm decision... the new one it is!

    It's pretty unlikely I'll ever need more than 2GB of RAM or the PCI-X slots. I'm upgrading the drives (I'm using the money I saved by going with the old model to do a .5TB Raid 0 :eek: ) so that doesn't bother me. The big deciding factor was always performance. My big question was "did Apple cripple the performance on the new 1.8 vs the old one?" I'm happy to say, the answer appears to be "no".

    I ran XBench (I know, not the best benchmarking tool ever, but when comparing apples to apples [literally!] any significant differences should be apparent) and compared it to a stock old G5. You can check out the results here.

    As you can see, the systems ran neck and neck all the way down the page. The total scores were less than 1% apart! Some interesting things to note:
    • Processors now identify themselves as "PowerPC G5x2 @ 1.80 GHz" instead of "PowerPC 970x2 @ 1.80 GHz"
    • The computer is QUIET! I don't have enough experience to say if it's quieter than the old 1.8, but it sure will be nice to have such a quiet machine!
    • The motherboard looks just like any other G5's. There are even solder points for the extra memory banks.
     

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