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New Apple TV DOES Handle 1080P

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by newagemac, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. macrumors 68020

    #1
    http://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=18102

    From the Handbrake Forum:


    So the old Apple TV would play 720p but would struggle if the bitrates and frame rates were too high (although it could handle higher than Apple's stated specs) and couldn't play any 1080p at all. The new one appears to handle any 720p video you can throw at it as well as 1080p up to a certain limit. So once again, Apple appears to be very conservative in its stated specs.

    This is excellent news for all those who want to keep their content in 1080p. I'm sticking with 720p as the storage/convenience/quality ratios work out better for me. The only 1080p I plan to use is Blu Ray discs until internet speeds, storage, and processor speeds improve drastically. I tried editing some 1080p video once and it was a pain in the butt on a Core 2 Duo processor and storing it would have required paying twice as much in hard drives.

    Still, I wonder what the 1080p limit is compared to the limit for other comparably priced boxes which claim to handle 1080p? Because as we all know, claiming to be able to handle 1080p and handling it well are two completely different things.
     
  2. macrumors 65816

    300D

    #2
    Its not displaying 1080p, its downscaling the picture like when you change a video's window size on your computer. Opposite of the gimmick used on DVD players.
     
  3. Moderator

    Hellhammer

    #3
    WD TV Live comes with 500MHz CPU, 333MHz coprocessor and 333MHz DSP.

    Boxee Box has 1.2GHz Intel Atom CE 4100.

    The new TV seems to be quite powerful if the A4 is running at full 1GHz. I don't know what bitrates the boxes above can handle but they claim themselves to be fully 1080p. It's also up to the software
     
  4. macrumors 65816

    300D

    #4
    CPU frequency has no connection to processing power across CPU brands.
     
  5. macrumors 601

    sammich

    #5
    The important finding here is that the A4 is capable of decoding 1080p. The actual decoding is the most intense part of playing a video. I can't make flash video play any smoother if I zoom out in the browser a couple of times.

    I know what you're saying, it's pointless if the output resolution of the Lowtide.app is 720p, but perhaps some hack or even Apple might enable (gasp!) proper 1080p output.
     
  6. macrumors 68020

    #6
    Where did I claim it displays 1080P? I said it plays 1080p video. You might want to reread my post.

    There are people with 1080P content and they just want to play that content on their Apple TV without having to reencode and/or store two different huge HD files. If the Apple TV does play the file, it makes it far more convenient for them.

    It also shows how capable the A4 processor is. Being able to decode 1080P is the hardest part. Whether or not content is displayed at that resolution is trivial in comparison technically.
     
  7. macrumors 68020

    #7
    To be honest, I'm more excited by the fact that this means I can create some super high quality 720p video using Handbrake now and not have to worry about whether the Apple TV can handle bitrates that large. I really see no point in 1080p if 720p bitrates can go over 30mbps average on the Apple TV's A4 processor like the people posting in the Handbrake forum are claiming.

    High bitrate 720p is indistinguishable to me from 1080 even on my 60" Sony DLP.
     
  8. macrumors 6502

    jeznav

    #8
  9. macrumors regular

    #9
    So you really can just add m4vs with 1080p h264 in them and the ATV plays them without any hassle? What bitrates have you tried so far?

    Damn...swore I wouldn't buy one :/
     
  10. macrumors 6502

    #10
    I second this it would be *awesome* to know what bitrates it could handle and with what codecs. While displaying a video in 1080p would be great, just playing them scaled down still makes the device much more appealing to me.
     
  11. macrumors regular

    #11
    That + jailbreak that brings your own TV Shows & movies back to the front of the menue and I'd be sold :)
     
  12. macrumors member

    #12
    Do you know that it downscales to 720p or are you just assuming? That's the question that Berylium raised on the Handbrake forums and I haven't seen anyone test and confirm it yet. I'll be able to test tonight when my Apple TV arrives.
     
  13. macrumors 65816

    #13
    Yeah, this is good news depending on the bitrates. I'll have to mess with this.

    I would say though the biggest advantage is you could do 1080p source material to future proof your library. I suppose though you'd still want to find a common denominator for iPad and perhaps iPhone 4.
     
  14. macrumors member

    #14
    I added two 1080p rips via iTunes and played them via shared library. Both played without issue.
     
  15. macrumors 6502

    #15
    I also haven't seen this confirmed and look forward to hearing from someone with a 1080p display that displays the input resolution. Someone did say that they couldn't find the place in the Settings where you select the output resolution (as in the old Apple TV, when 1080p was added eventually), but maybe it's hidden somewhere, or maybe the Apple TV does sync to the highest available resolution even if it's 1080p.

    I agree with the other comments that if the chip can decode 1080p H.264 then pushing the actual pixels to the screen should be well within capability.
     
  16. macrumors regular

    #16
    Could you please use the app MediaInfo on those files and copy&paste the infos here?
    Really appreciate it!
     
  17. macrumors member

    #17
    V for Vendetta:
    ormat : MPEG-4
    Format profile : Base Media
    Codec ID : isom
    File size : 3.91 GiB
    Duration : 2h 12mn
    Overall bit rate : 4 223 Kbps
    Genre : Action Movies
    Encoded date : UTC 2009-02-13 05:51:08
    Tagged date : UTC 2009-02-13 05:51:08

    Video
    ID : 1
    Format : AVC
    Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
    Format profile : High@L4.0
    Format settings, CABAC : Yes
    Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
    Codec ID : avc1
    Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
    Duration : 2h 12mn
    Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 3 957 Kbps
    Maximum bit rate : 25.0 Mbps
    Width : 1 920 pixels
    Height : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate mode : Constant
    Frame rate : 23.976 fps
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.080
    Stream size : 3.67 GiB (94%)
    Writing library : x264 core 65 r1066M 045ae40
    Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=7 / psy_rd=1.0:0.0 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / wpredb=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40(pre) / rc=2pass / bitrate=3957 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=25000 / vbv_bufsize=25000 / ip_ratio=1.40 / pb_ratio=1.30 / aq=1:1.00
    Encoded date : UTC 2009-02-13 05:51:08
    Tagged date : UTC 2009-02-13 05:53:17

    Audio
    ID : 2
    Format : AAC
    Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
    Format version : Version 4
    Format profile : LC
    Format settings, SBR : No
    Codec ID : 40
    Duration : 2h 12mn
    Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 264.6 Kbps
    Maximum bit rate : 278 Kbps
    Channel(s) : 6 channels
    Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
    Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
    Stream size : 246 MiB (6%)
    Encoded date : UTC 2009-02-13 05:53:04
    Tagged date : UTC 2009-02-13 05:53:17





    The Bourne Ultimatum:
    Format : MPEG-4
    Format profile : Base Media
    Codec ID : isom
    File size : 3.92 GiB
    Duration : 1h 55mn
    Overall bit rate : 4 866 Kbps
    Genre : Action Movies
    Encoded date : UTC 2009-02-20 05:04:54
    Tagged date : UTC 2009-02-20 05:04:54

    Video
    ID : 1
    Format : AVC
    Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
    Format profile : High@L4.0
    Format settings, CABAC : Yes
    Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
    Codec ID : avc1
    Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
    Duration : 1h 55mn
    Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 4 604 Kbps
    Maximum bit rate : 9 603 Kbps
    Width : 1 920 pixels
    Height : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate mode : Constant
    Frame rate : 23.976 fps
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.093
    Stream size : 3.71 GiB (95%)
    Writing library : x264 core 66 r1109M 75b495f
    Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=7 / psy_rd=1.0:0.0 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=3 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / wpredb=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40(pre) / rc=2pass / bitrate=4604 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=25000 / vbv_bufsize=25000 / ip_ratio=1.40 / pb_ratio=1.30 / aq=1:1.00
    Encoded date : UTC 2009-02-20 05:04:54
    Tagged date : UTC 2009-02-20 05:09:40

    Audio
    ID : 2
    Format : AAC
    Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
    Format version : Version 4
    Format profile : LC
    Format settings, SBR : No
    Codec ID : 40
    Duration : 1h 55mn
    Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 264.6 Kbps
    Maximum bit rate : 275 Kbps
    Channel(s) : 6 channels
    Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
    Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
    Stream size : 214 MiB (5%)
    Encoded date : UTC 2009-02-20 05:09:19
    Tagged date : UTC 2009-02-20 05:09:40
     
  18. macrumors 6502a

    ssdeg7

    #18
    I just don't understand why can't it just display 1080p
     
  19. macrumors 65816

    #19
    Apple TV 3rd Gen.
    And iTunes Store is all 720p.
    Probably a cost savings also.
     
  20. macrumors regular

    #20
    Thanks a lot ;)
    Does anyone have some "high quality" encodes with bitrates around 10k and could test those?
     
  21. macrumors 6502

    #21
    This is fantastic news! I too could care less about 1080P, but the ability to run just about any 720P makes me very happy. Here's my setup:

    Apple TV (160 GB)
    Mac Mini
    EyeTV 250 Plus

    I bought all this mostly so I could get rid cable, which I did, but the recordings from the EyeTV never worked with the Apple TV making the EyeTV esentially useless for me. It would play for a while and then start stuttering on the Apple TV, while playing fine on the Mini. Getting out credit card...
     
  22. macrumors member

    #22
    I figured these were lower quality. My higher quality one's are in .mkv or other formats. I'll try and find one to test with.
     
  23. macrumors 601

    #23
    Yes, that's really what we need here. Someone with a really high quality render of 1080p video to test it. If it doesn't work, render it with a bit more compression until you find it's 1080p max specs. I'd love to learn that it can indeed handle 1080p files and that it has enough horsepower to play a pretty good level of quality.

    1080HD movie trailers might be a good, quick source.

    Or use Handbrake to convert just a minute or two of a highest-quality HD file you have on hand, and then test. If it doesn’t play, squeeze the compression a bit more and test again. This would be BIG to learn what the device can really handle, better than 720p30fps.

    Also, does your 1080p HDTV give you the ability to verify the resolution of the file it is playing. Vs. the second post in this thread, it would be good to definitively nail down if the :apple:TV is pushing out 1920 x 1080 instead of 720p. I would guess it does, because- as others have posted- the hard part is processing the file, not pushing the frames. If your HDTV can do that, you could put that one to bed too (try hitting the info button or similar, while the video is playing).
     
  24. macrumors 6502a

    #24
    My big hope is for a native AppleTV Air Video app that could do away with all of these concerns, including removing iTunes from the mix.
     
  25. macrumors member

    #25
    Both Harry Potter 7 trailers I have in 1080p .mov format played fine.
     

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