New graphics card for Quartz Extreme?

Discussion in 'Mac Help/Tips' started by eudemon, Jul 1, 2002.

  1. eudemon macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Location:
    Durham, NC
    #1
    I have a dual 500mhz G4 i bought in August of 2000, and it has (i believe) an ATI 16mb vram graphics card. As far as I understand, this card will not support Quartz Extreme--is this correct? And, if so, would it be worth my money to put in a new QE-compatible 32mb vram graphics card? Is that possible, and how much would it cost?
    Thanks for the help.
     
  2. Solipsys macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2001
    #2
    Quartz Extreme

    Another attempt Apple made to revolutionize the graphics system on personal computers... Unfortunately no other company would cooperate by implementing Quartz acceleraters into their graphics cards so Apple now decided to dump all Quarts operations into the OpenGl pipeline. In OSX.2 Quartz will be pumped through OpenGl onto your graphics card thus speeding it up considerably.

    It's too bad Apple doesn't have the marketing clout to push standards the way Microsoft can. Two great examples are USB vs. Firewire and Microsoft's new programming language C# which is their attempt to abolish Java by Sun. Microsoft has the power to bend other companies to their will on any standard while Apple has to prove beyond reasonable doubt that their technology is worth standardizing before any other company will even take notice.

    It's very sad because Quartz would have been an unbelievable standard if other companies would listen to great ideas instead of just money. Now with Quartz relying on OpenGl, 3D apps will suffer from the weight they have to carry supporting both the interface and the 3D environment you are creating within the application. It will be an unfortunate decline in the performance of all 3D apps.
     
  3. wsteineker macrumors 6502a

    wsteineker

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2001
    Location:
    Montgomery, AL
    #3
    Ok, to answer the posters question...

    YES!!!!!!!!!!

    Now as for your options. There are a few excellent choices here. A GeForce2MX or a Radeon will get the job done, but I'd suggest a GeForce3. There is always the Radeon Family (7500, 8500) and the GeForce4 family if you want to go even more high end. As for price, it's not as bad as you might think. GeFroce2 and Radeon cards are generally in the $150 neighborhood and offer acceptable performance. A GeForce3 will run closer to $225 with the extra money being well spent. As for installation, it's a snap. Pop the old card out of the AGP slot and put the new one in. It takes about 2 minutes in a tower.

    I would agree with Solipsys that QE could potentially hurt 3D performance, but only in those rare instances where a 3D gamer is running the game in a window on the desktop and not in full screen mode. This RARELY happens, and shouldn't be considered an issue.
     
  4. eudemon thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Location:
    Durham, NC
    #4
    Special card?

    wsteineker--
    thanks for the tip, it definitely sounds like i should put a new card in. My only other question would be: Do I need to get a special mac-only graphics card? I'm using a 15" flat panel, and based on my limited understanding of my hardware, the ADC out on my tower is connected to my current ATI card. Would any new card I bought have to be one with an ADC output, or is this not an issue?
    Thanks again.
     
  5. mc68k macrumors 68000

    mc68k

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2002
    #5
    Re: Special card?

    Make sure that your 15" FP (I'm assuming it's made by Apple) is not DVI-I. Their original series of Studio FPs were DVI, and your mac is a few years old. If your display is in fact ADC, then you will have to get a special card that is specifically made for a mac since ADC is a proprietary spec and PC manufacturers do not support ADC. Make sure that the card you buy supports Macs, not every card does.

    I would go ATI with macs, a 7500 or 8500 will speed up your comp in Jaguar most definitely.
     
  6. Choppaface macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Location:
    SFBA
    #6
    I've got the same model comp (I think) but I got whichever radeon card they were offering when it came out. it has 32 megs of vram. anybody know what model it is, and if the newer cards would have any advantage to them (I do only 2D work)
     
  7. mc68k macrumors 68000

    mc68k

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2002
    #7
    I don't think you do. He has a DP 500 and here are the specs (attached picture). Those only came w/Rage cards. If you have a Radeon AGP w/32MB, you're set for 2D work. You'll get a boost w/QE too.

    You can find out what your comp is in the Apple System Profiler— Apple Menu in 9, Applications->Utilities in X.
     
  8. eudemon thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Location:
    Durham, NC
    #8
    I think he's right, actually; when I bought my machine I had the choice of a Radeon card instead of a Rage, but I stupidly thought it wouldn't matter and went with the Rage. Not sure which model though.
     
  9. mc68k macrumors 68000

    mc68k

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2002
    #9
    I'm sure he might, I was just quoting the specs off everymac for the DP500. But the Sawtooth and Digital Audio machines of that time definitely had 2x AGP Radeons and Rages. It was all ATI back then— they seem to have leaned more towards nvidia for whatever reason.

    The basic idea behind QE is that it will dump OpenGL code onto the GPU instaed of the CPU, thus freeing more cycles for system work, rather than displaying Aqua. The problem is that there is a barrier where if you have too little VRAM or not enough support, then you would see more of an increase with just your CPU doing all the work. QE is mostly for higher end machines so that Apple can make their OS seem faster on the same hardware, since it is somewhat bloated.

    But I do have 10.2 running on a B&W G3 OC'd to 500MHz and it's a good ~50% faster at most tasks, and looks better to boot.

    So if you have the capability to support QE, get on that ship! (I wish I could :()
     
  10. firewire2001 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2002
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    #10
    explain to me your reasoning... there arent even GAMES out there (ferr mac) that support all the capabilities of the GeForce 2 -- while Quartz would run just fine with one... i think that the GeForce 3 is pushing it while the GeForce 4 is just going too far...

    i dont think quartz will be much better with a g2 vs a g3 cause it can only take advantage of sooo much...
     
  11. billiam0878 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Location:
    Winter Park, FL
    #11
    Hey eudemon, I've been running an early version of Jaguar on my TiBook 500 and it is quite impressive. I have an 8MB ATI (with 512MB RAM) and even with my tiny GPU I have noticed a significant speed enhancement. I too was considering upgrading my Cube (which only has 16MB) but having played with Jaguar I'm reconsidering. My suggestion: When Jaguar comes out see how it runs, and if performance does not meet (and surpass) you expectations then upgrade. Just my 2 cents,

    Bill
     
  12. Promostyle macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #12
    Hey man....

    I have the same G4 dual 500 with the 16MB Rage Pro card. I thought Quartz X supported 16MB VRAM? I'm ditching (iTunes server) this machine anyway. As soon as the dual 1.4GHZ comes out in July, I'M ON IT!

    You can always get an upgrade, even if you're planning to upgrade soon, just shell out US$200 and grab a Radeaon card.
     
  13. wsteineker macrumors 6502a

    wsteineker

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2001
    Location:
    Montgomery, AL
    #13
    My reasoning is quite simple, actually. The GeForce3 for the Mac (ADC model) has 64 MB VRAM, whereas the GeForce2 MX for the Mac (ADC model) only has 32 MB VRAM. Apple recommends the GeForce2 MX and the Radeon as the MINIMUM cards for QE compatibility. It's safe to say that with the higher core clockspeed of the Geforce3 and the added VRAM, the Geforce3 will smoke the GeForce2 MX in day to day QE functionality. The more VRAM and higher clockspeed the card has, the higher the overall performance boost yield will be. I don't think I'm out of line saying this, but there's always the possiblity that I could be wrong. This will be of even more added value when CPU speed is lacking (as it is in the Cube), as it decreases the potential for a VRAM underrun, forcing OpenGL operations back onto the CPU. Dig?
     
  14. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    #14
    This is the display compatibility document for G4s

    http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58692

    The only actual problem ADC monitor on that page is the Studio Display 17 (the CRT version). It requires an analog signal and is most likely only supported by the ADC video cards that shipped before it was canceled. Seems a lot of the newer cards only support digital ADC.

    Which is most likely why it died after so short a market life.
     

Share This Page