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Boomchukalaka

macrumors regular
Jun 12, 2009
111
4
This all sounds good, forcing the carriers and the manufacturers to deal with this issue, but let me ask you: When your carrier bumps your cell bill $10 a month to manage this "service" that you all want, none of you are going to bitch right? And as for the manufacturers...can't wait for the first time a couple gets into a drunken fight over "that guy she was chatting up a little too much at that party", and he reports her cell phone as stolen to get back at her. She misses an important call from the babysitter about the kid having an allergic reaction to gawd knows what...and then the lawsuits start flying.

We need far less laws on the books folks, not more.
 

Huracan

macrumors 6502
Jan 9, 2007
336
281
Please Apple, do this. No reason why not to spend a bit of engineering money to solve this problem.
 

rei101

macrumors 6502a
Dec 24, 2011
976
1
It's not the manufacturer's job to combat theft of their devices.

So you do not need airbags in your car or locks, not even special tires for rain or snow.

It is part of being a developer.

In Venezuela (my home country) people get murder for any smart phone OR even when they do not have one "You do not have an smart phone? you are a loser, pum!".

I believe that rendering my iPhone useless would be a good idea and it would stop thieves from looking at it.
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,636
816
Los Angeles, CA
Uhhhhhhh, fingerprint sensor?

Still useless. Someone will figure out a way to hack it. Or they will still steal the phones and sell them to third party shops that will use them for parts so folks will keep coming for those $50 broken screen replacements without it being non Apple screen and voiding warranties.
 

gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,565
Good. Apple certainly has the ability to do this. It wouldn't be hard at all. To keep the kill switch process secure, they could simply require that the owner submit a police report before they disable the phone.

... or that the police ask for it to be blocked if the owner is in a state where he or she is not capable of submitting a police report anymore...
 

Earendil

macrumors 68000
Oct 27, 2003
1,567
25
Washington
And no, I'm not going to waste time finding the correct page. You're the one who wants to know the source....

You're the one that wants us to believe you, and not ignore you. The burden of proof is on you. Or, we can just dismiss "facts" that you provide without a source as gibberish made up on the spot.
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,636
816
Los Angeles, CA
Good. Apple certainly has the ability to do this. It wouldn't be hard at all. To keep the kill switch process secure, they could simply require that the owner submit a police report before they disable the phone. !

Still useless. Carriers kill the IMEI, thief sells it to someone who takes it overseas. Apple kills the serial or UDID, they figure out a way to hack phone to claim it has a known good number (which they can already do with the serial if not both).

This kind of thing is why Apple's response is a meh. They know that there is no foolproof way to achieve this goal.
 

gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,565
They can make it so if the device is blacklisted it cannot be used at all. For example, as soon as the device is turned on it shows an error message saying "the device has been marked as stolen". This way it can't be used for anything.

I'd say that should happen a month after it is stolen. That way they can make sure that a certain percentage of thieves will get beaten up by unhappy "customers". And it would not only affect thieves but also buyers; that's both ends that are responsible for the market in stolen goods.
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,636
816
Los Angeles, CA
May not be a responsibility; but as a good citizen they can do more to stop thefts and beatings that some thefts lead to.

Nothing they do will stop this. Folks will still steal them etc because there will be folks that don't read blogs etc to know that the tech exists or will figure out how to get around it.

Like restoring the phones and deactivating them before the police can get the report to Apple for the killswitch etc

----------

Didn't I read that most stolen phones just get exported overseas?

Unless the manufacturers implement a kill switch to completely disable the phones, this is pointless.

Even then it would likely be in the logic board so they will just swap the part etc

----------

No, but it's the carriers responsibility to make stolen devices worthless. Hard to register a stolen car, make it hard/impossible to activate a stolen phone.

The US can't make other countries blacklist the phones so they take them overseas. That's why they are saying Apple must be made to have to kill the hardware.

----------

This is the dumbest statement ever. It's not their job but it is their responsibility to prevent people from using stolen merchandise. Look at the car industry. They have anti-theft systems where you can't hot wire the cars anymore because of a computer chip in the key.

Until someone figures out how to copy those chips and keys etc

----------

UK mobile phone providers already do block stolen handsets, just needs the crime report number and the IMEI code.

And by the time you get that, the phone is in Asia, the US etc where there is no blacklist against it
 

gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,565
On the one hand, the police were able to use the phone to track down the murderers to their apartment. But on the other hand, the phone shouldn't have been so valuable to the thieves turned murderers.

"Thieves turned murderers" had nothing to do with the value of the phone. As you said, the guy had already handed over his wallet - surely he would have handed over his phone as well if the thieves just had asked nicely. There was no rational reason to kill the man. He wasn't killed for his phone, he was killed because some sick bastard wanted to see what it's like to kill a person.

(My personal opinion: When sentencing a criminal, it should be considered how likely it is that he would get into a similar situation again. Killing your wife/husband because she/he slept with your best friend - that's a situation that happens rarely; to many people it happens never. Even with no remorse and learning nothing from being in jail, that person is unlikely to get into the same situation and commit the same crime again. Killing a person for a phone that can be sold for $100 - I meet several people every day who carry that kind of phone. When that killer comes out of jail, he or she will be thousands of times a year in a situation where they previously turned to become a killer. )
 
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solamar

macrumors regular
Dec 30, 2008
179
72
Not Phone MFG job, though Apple does try.

Apple does offer some options for tracking and wiping phone. However, the 'kill switch' is NOT something Apple can, or SHOULD do.. thats the CARRIERS job..

Thats what the T-mo and ATT black list project is about. Killing stolen phones.. This Attorney General is most likely just using Apple as a platform to get Blogs like MacRumers to write about them..

Great job MR, you just were lead by the nose.. again..

He should be 'Supporting' T-Mobile and ATT on the blacklist effort, not yelling at companies that have NO control over carrier networks..
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,636
816
Los Angeles, CA
Here in Baltimore, we had a similarly brutal and senseless mugging turned into a murder only three years ago. Stephen Pitcairn handed over his wallet and then was stabbed for his phone.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...ug-related-arrests-and-convictions-detectives

On the one hand, the police were able to use the phone to track down the murderers to their apartment. But on the other hand, the phone shouldn't have been so valuable to the thieves turned murderers.

The manufacturers need to step it up and help wipe out the marketplace for stolen phones just like the car manufacturers did.

Read the article, sounds like they would have stabbed him no matter what. NOT as you make it sound, for his iPhone specifically.

This is the same FUD behind all these articles. Yes there have been some violent robberies but most were likely grabbed off tables, found and not returned etc.
 

FuriousGreg

macrumors member
Nov 11, 2011
90
0
I had my phone slip out in a cab ride home (sober but tired) and someone decided not to turn it in, or maybe it was the cabby who knows. The end result was it's gone and whoever found it pulled the card and reset the phone before I could use the phone finder. Even if I did use it what am I going to do, go all Rambo on the f%&#er?

It's a phone locked to Fido (Toronto, Canada) and I have the box with the serial number etc.. Even if you unlock the phone there is no reason other than a cash grab by manufacturers and carriers why that phone can't be blocked against further use by at least my carrier if not all carriers. As for phones going over seas, well then I guess that particular one got away, but the truth is a majority of stolen iPhones stay near where they were lost/stolen so even if only half get blocked it's a pretty good deterrent from casual theft. You can't use it, you can't sell it to be used, you might as well leave it or turn it in so it can be recovered.

Is it the responsibility of Apple? Not really but they are in the unique position to do something about it and as an individual consumer we can't. Government, our elected officials and those appointed or hired by them, however does represent us and they are in a position to do something about it. As our representatives it is within their mandate to represent us in trying to get better anti-theft protection.

I can't understand why so called "conservatives" and "libertarians" don't get this. We are, through our representatives, the government, and we have every right to use our elected officials to protect us.
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,636
816
Los Angeles, CA
Use your head. Cell phones are traceable and can be deactivated remotely. If it's possible to do that then why not do it?

Because they would need a way to make sure it should be done and its not me reporting the iPhone I bought you as a gift as stolen cause I'm pissed at you etc.

And there is no 100% foolproof way to truly deactivate the phones plus most violent crimes are done fast so the offender isn't going to check that it's an iPhone and then say 'oh never mind I'm not going to take your phone cause its worthless'. They take first, then sort it out. If it can't be activated they find another way to profit from it
 

solamar

macrumors regular
Dec 30, 2008
179
72
"Thieves turned murderers" had nothing to do with the value of the phone. As you said, the guy had already handed over his wallet - surely he would have handed over his phone as well if the thieves just had asked nicely. There was no rational reason to kill the man. He wasn't killed for his phone, he was killed because some sick bastard wanted to see what it's like to kill a person.

Most likely correct.. It's the media and NYC Attorney General using Apple and others as a platform to push their agenda. They are acting almost as pathetic as the bastard that killed him really.

They should stop soapboxing and help those like ATT, T-mobile, finish their blacklist project and get Sprint, Verizon and regional carriers on board.
 

maxosx

macrumors 68020
Dec 13, 2012
2,385
1
Southern California
New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman, and San Francisco district attorney Georce Gascón, are politicians. They would be best spending a little more time playing golf and less time creating more laws or regulations.
 

wizard

macrumors 68040
May 29, 2003
3,854
571
Just another sign indicating just how corrupt the government of NY is.

For those that don't follow what is going on in NY, we have the most corrupt state government in the nation. This is just part of an attempts to take focus off that fact and harass a company that has nothing to do with the crime problem in NY. To put it as bluntly as possible the crime problem in NY and especially in New York City, is directly related to the liberal mentality of those governments. If you have a policy of tolerating and encouraging the criminal element then what you will get is a lot of violence against the innocent.

If the attorney general really wanted to do something about this sort of crime they would demand that the laws be put in place to allow the arrest and execution of these criminals. The problem, as recent news reports detail, is that these governments are over running with criminals themselves. So instead of enacting laws that would impact criminals, which of course means the government themselves, they harass big companies like Apple so that we have this nice news byte to digest. Beautiful.
 

Cubytus

macrumors 65816
Mar 2, 2007
1,436
18
Vote with your wallets. If you dont like it don't buy it. You can buy a $100 smart phone that wont be a target.
There is no such thing as a $100 smartphone, except maybe a 3 or 4 years old one.

Still useless. Carriers kill the IMEI, thief sells it to someone who takes it overseas. Apple kills the serial or UDID, they figure out a way to hack phone to claim it has a known good number (which they can already do with the serial if not both).

This kind of thing is why Apple's response is a meh. They know that there is no foolproof way to achieve this goal.
I can't quite understand why you (I assume mostly) Americans have so much of a Manichean view of the world around you. Either the goal is achieved in a perfect and foolproof way, either it is complete failure?

I understand that your country is prone to extreme violence (as showed by people getting killed or amputated to steal from them), but discouraging theft is a more subtle animal.

It is NOT the manufacturer's responsibility to prevent theft.
It is NOT the police's job to track down the thieves.
It is NOT the carrier's job to disable stolen mobile devices.

Then whose job is it? The greedy insurance companies' ?

First, one can't simply stop thefts from happening. Even in Japan where petty theft is widely reported as extremely low, it still does happen.

Second, different actors have different roles. The manufacturers could indeed install technical ways of disabling a device if it gets stolen, and as much ways technically possible to identify the thief. That is NOT to say they should manage the process from A to Z, but leave its controls to the rightful registered user, and the police.

If it is not the police's job to force users to register and lock their phones, they have the duty to use their power to find thieves and punish them when given the tools and keys to do so. Why would a victim be turned down when it comes with IMEI, serial number, phone number and Apple ID, approximate geolocation, date and place of theft?

And finally, why would a carrier refuse to flag the device to a worldwide database if ordered so by the rightful owner or police dept?

The more roadblocks are set to discourage theft, the less attractive theft will be. Much as in cars: a chipped key won't prevent the car to be dismantled, or getting its ECU reflashed to get rid of the block, or some parts replaced for non-disabled ones, but it makes stealing sufficiently unattractive to move on to the next target. Same goes for bike theft, that is rampant here. If you have a great bike, many solutions: spend a few hundreds on the lock itself, never leave your bike, take in into the office. Bike thieves now work with battery-operated circular saws. What would be the defense against that?

Just imagine this situation, if locks manufacturer dumped the responsibility of preventing forced entry on the door manufacturer, and vice-versa. That wouldn't make any sense.
 

repoman27

macrumors 6502
May 13, 2011
485
167
I think part of the reason the New York AG is involved in this is due to iOS device thefts driving an increase in the overall crime rate in New York as per these stats. Furthermore, some of the biggest dollar heists were pre-sale devices stolen from Apple Stores or other retail outlets. In these cases, biometric data and remote wiping are totally irrelevant. Unless the retailer could identify the IMEI numbers of the stolen devices, even blacklisting the them with the network operators would be difficult.

That being said, what would public opinion be if an AG demanded that big content implement some way to prevent the theft of high definition content? Now I know some of you are saying to yourselves, "But isn't pirating content a victimless crime?" Thank goodness the industry was responsible enough to implement DRM on it's own without the government having to step in. Bottom line, we'd definitely all pay for it if handset OEMs were forced to introduce anti-theft measures, but I'm not sure how many of us would actually benefit from it.

Basically, HTC should just take all the Firsts that AT&T is returning, take the innards out and re-sell them as iPhone cases. The ultimate theft deterrent.
 

Yvan256

macrumors 603
Jul 5, 2004
5,081
998
Canada
You're the one that wants us to believe you, and not ignore you. The burden of proof is on you. Or, we can just dismiss "facts" that you provide without a source as gibberish made up on the spot.

I don't want anyone to believe me, my original comment was that I read that somewhere, which I think was right here on MacRumors.

I'm not a journalist, you can ignore my comments and "sources" if you want.
 

engbjm

macrumors newbie
Jul 20, 2012
19
1
iCrime database?! - A stolen iPhone should be WORTHLESS.

Just FYI: I was mugged for my iPhone. I feel lucky that I didn't get hurt.

No matter what bright idea anyone comes up with...

No one should be mugged / killed for their iPhone. EVER.

Currently thieves and murderers are providing Apple and wireless companies with a service. They are creating new customers by getting iPhones to new customers, and victims go out and buy new iPhones.

The device should be WORTHLESS. Absolutely WORTHLESS.

Whenever it is plugged into a computer or simply connects to the internet, it should automatically flag the device as stolen and erase all data, or give it a virus with location information, etc.

The true owner could still transfer the title of the iPhone to anyone they wish by stopping in any Apple store.

We can sync with iCloud wirelessly, right?! Where is the iCrime database?

I don't believe that cops should be spending a ton of manpower on this to recover one iPhone at a time, but I do like that they are across the board putting pressure on Apple. Makes me very happy.

I believe that the family of someone who is killed for their iPhone would have a pretty good lawsuit for Apple. A case could be made that Apple is actually encouraging theft by making it so ridiculously easy.

If something is WORTHLESS and a HASTLE, theives and crimminals will move on. Right now they are encouraged to hurt people for an easy $200.

Shame on you, Apple.
 
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