Newly Released Drone Records Reveal Extensive Military Flights in US.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by MacNut, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #1
    It seems to get more disturbing everyday.
    http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/6/3735976/interactive-map-domestic-drones-eff
     
  2. macrumors 68000

    NickZac

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2010
    #2
    That's scary. Although what scares me most is that most people seem to have no issue with this. I see this as a slippery slope.
     
  3. macrumors P6

    Peace

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Location:
    Space--The ONLY Frontier
    #3
    Hell I can buy a remote controlled mini drone at the toy store and snoop around my neighborhood.

    But as far as military/local LEA doing this it IS a slippery slope.
     
  4. macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Location:
    On tenterhooks
    #4
    What could they see that would different from driving down a public street?

    But I accept your point, that given enough 'opportunity' they will run away with the store.
     
  5. thread starter macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
  6. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Location:
    FL
    #6
    I can wait for all the paparazzi drones buzzing around hollywood peaking inside peoples windows. You just know that will happen.
     
  7. macrumors G3

    rhett7660

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Location:
    Sunny, Southern California
    #7
    You beat me to it. It is ok to have a company drive down the street with cameras galore......or flying over head.

    Going to be interesting to say the least.
     
  8. macrumors 68000

    Happybunny

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Location:
    's-Hertogenbosch Netherlands
    #8
    The more that I read about this, the more that I know this is going to go terribly wrong, one day.
     
  9. macrumors 68000

    VulchR

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Location:
    Scotland
    #9
    There is an urgent need to regulate drone technology - it is not rocket science to realize that these things could be used against the US far more cheaply than the cost of defending against them.
     
  10. macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #10
    I see while some states are legalizing pot, other states are still aggressively fighting it. Losing battle my friends.
     
  11. macrumors 68030

    APlotdevice

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    #11
    You generally can't see someone's backyard from the street.
     
  12. macrumors 6502a

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2010
    #12
    I wonder what will happen when one of those mini-drones that law enforcement wants to use gets sucked into a jet engine and the plane crashes on a school? Or, with somewhat greater frequency, collides with a single-engine Cessna?

    Drones used in rural areas, around forest fires, and so on, are a very different thing than using them in crowded urban airspace.
     
  13. macrumors 68000

    NickZac

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2010
    #13
    That is an understatement. It will become a slippery slope very quickly, probably 'as matter of national security'. I do not think the government has a right to interfere with the private life of citizens, and this is a great way to do just that.
     
  14. thread starter macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #14
    The difference is the Google car driving down the street is not taking real time data.
     
  15. macrumors 68000

    hulugu

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Location:
    the faraway towns
    #15
    Generally speaking, the FAA's Certificates of Authorization (what EFF sued for to get this data) restrict when and where drones can fly. So, for the time being, a drone, especially the relatively large ones like the Predator/Reaper, are kept away from high-traffic flight areas.

    And, while a Predator can fly up to 30,000-feet, DHS currently uses them around 16,000 to 18,000 feet.
    The biggest problem with the technology is the potential loss-of-contact and what the drone does in response.

    The Predators used by DHS are set to return to base and then fly a racetrack overhead until contact is reestablished or it crashes. Moreover, in Arizona, the department has a list of airfields that should allow the Predator crash-land in the event of an engine or mechanical failure.

    The ones I would be worried about are groups like TMZ (it was once rumored they wanted one) getting a drone and flying it without any authorization or flight-plan. There, a LOC could be disastrous, since the drone would likely be flying over a highly-populated area or could collide with a manned helicopter.

    Ultimately, the drone is a technology that can only be regulated, not kept in the box. It's too easy to build one using off-the-shelf parts and open source software.

    ----------

    Why do you think this distinction is important?
     
  16. macrumors G3

    rhett7660

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Location:
    Sunny, Southern California
    #16
    Sure it is, it is not displaying it to world, but it is taking it, processing it, possible keeping it in a harddrive on the camera's mode of transportation, but it is taking it in real time, just not displaying it real time if that is what you mean.
     
  17. macrumors 68000

    hulugu

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Location:
    the faraway towns
    #17
    I may be confused by your post, but many of the drones, such as the Predator, are capable of sending real-time video data to a remote location which has DVRs for keeping the video.

    The Google Maps cars don't do this, but there's no real reason they couldn't. Again, I'm not sure this distinction matters: photos are okay, but live video isn't?
     
  18. macrumors G3

    rhett7660

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Location:
    Sunny, Southern California
    #18
    All I was commenting on, was that when a google car travels by that has the camera, that data is going somewhere, still or video it is still going somewhere in a real time for that particular moment. That is all. It is not sending a live video stream, or is it, that is being captured, edited if need be and then sent to the web (process streamlined for sake of conversation).

    That is all I was saying. Whether good or bad, I don't know. I don't think it matters if it is video or still. It is still capturing data.

    This reminds me of the controversy over having cameras in big cities capturing and archiving video and still pictures.
     
  19. macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #19
    I'm hoping for a nice, shiny drone myself this Christmas. Those Parrot thingies would be great for surveying as well as surveillance.
     
  20. macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Location:
    On tenterhooks
    #20
    It really isn't, unless your backyard neighbour is miles away.

    Most neighbours around here have 2nd story windows looking over your pool, or whatever. ;)

    Nude swimming, on Moonless nights only, recommended.
     
  21. thread starter macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #21
    The google cars are just mapping streets and the front of a house. Plus you can see the car drive by. The drones are taking real time live data from up above, I doubt many people even know they are there. So they can actually spy where the car is just there for 5 seconds and gone.
     
  22. macrumors 68000

    hulugu

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Location:
    the faraway towns
    #22
    Yeah, we're supposed to take delivery of a drone from a NZ company to do ecology surveys. It has a couple of sensors and a camera with a 12mm lens, which is pretty cool. The software to fly it is a pain though.

    Sure, but a drone is just taking a picture of the roof.

    So, if the drone were obvious (blinking lights at night, bright colors in the day) would this change?

    Is it the time? What's the difference, do you think, between momentary surveillance and ubiquitous surveillance? Is there a difference between an unmarked car sitting on your street and a drone? Or a cruiser?

    Isn't it still someone watching you?
     
  23. MacNut, Dec 7, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012

    thread starter macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #23
    I doubt the Google car is able to sniff out pot or track a car's speed. I would gather that all the google car does is map out gps and document the surroundings. We don't know what the droids are capable of but I would bet they are of much higher surveillance quality.

    Maybe this will change your mind. http://www.impactlab.net/2011/07/12...ature-drones-that-resemble-birds-and-insects/
     
  24. macrumors 68000

    hulugu

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Location:
    the faraway towns
    #24
    Well, it could. Google could add an infrared camera and day/night television camera and they're close to the feature set of a Predator. You're moving your argument around.

    Why shouldn't police or other authorities have access to drones? What's the moral and legal argument against it?

    Sure, I can get a drone to do something rather similar from overhead.

    There's certainly some new SIGINT and nuclear detection sensors on drones run by the CIA (and other three-letter agencies) and possibly better cameras, but the general technology is fairly well-known.

    And, it's fairly easy to know what's in the models potentially used by police agencies.


    EDIT: On new drone models, including the small bird-like or insect-like drones, I'm well aware. At this point, I've been researching drones for months. What I'm looking for is your argument about why is is bad.

    Not that I think it's good, I'm just trying to refine the arguments about why drones are bad for society. Are airplanes and squad cars okay? Is it the time-scale? The secretiveness? Is it the intrusion of IR cameras and listening devices?

    Where do we draw the line and where do we cross it?
     
  25. thread starter macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #25
    The argument is should authorities have the right to spy on the public without warrants? Are we giving them too much power.

    Why are we being treated like criminals for no reason other than "for our own protection".
     

Share This Page