Windows Next Computer Will Probably be Windows

Discussion in 'Mac and PC Games' started by Huntn, Sep 16, 2013.

  1. macrumors G3

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #1
    I have been a long time advocate of using a Mac, specifically a MacBookPro for mobile gaming, just because it's the only hardware that can do both Mac and PC gaming. Currently playing FFXIV and Wot on my 2011 MBP which does a fine job.

    However, I'm no longer traveling as much. The MacOS is important to me because I use it for everything important. And I just got to do a clean install of &@#!! Windows 7 running on my Mac, just because it's SUCKY Windows. :p But I'm the first to admit for me, Windows and it's headaches are a better avenue for gaming due to better performance and a wider selection of games.

    I've been looking at ibuypower.com and there is a very good chance the next computer I buy will be a $1000-1200 Gaming PC. No, this does not mean I'll abandon my Mac. I just won't upgrade it as often. I just don't need to spend $2100 when I can spend $1200.

    Counter points, anyone?
     
  2. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    #2
    Me too!

    Pretty much the same here. I've been on Macintosh since the 512KE in 1987 or 1988. No Windows machines until about six months ago. I built one solely for gaming. Here's what I put together, it looks like it's in the same price range you're interested in.


    CARD:
    SAPPHIRE 100352-2L Radeon HD 7950 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

    CPU:
    Intel Core i5-3570 Quad-Core Processor 3.4 GHz 6 MB Cache LGA 1155 - BX80637I53570

    MOTHERBOARD:
    AS Rock PRO4-M LGA1155 Intel H77 Quad CrossFireX SATA3 USB3.0 A V GbE MATX Motherboard H77

    RAM:
    Corsair Vengeance 8 GB ( 2 x 4 GB ) DDR3 1600 MHz (PC3 12800) 240-Pin DDR3 Memory Kit for Core i3, i5, i7 and Platforms SDRAM CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9

    MONITOR:
    ASUS VW246H Glossy Black 24" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 ASCR 20000:1 (1000:1) Built-in Speakers

    HARD DRIVE:
    Seagate Barracuda 7200 1 TB 7200RPM SATA 6 Gb/s NCQ 64MB Cache 3.5-Inch Internal Bare Drive ST1000DM003

    OPTICAL DRIVE:
    Lite-On Super AllWrite 24X SATA DVD+/-RW Dual Layer Drive - Bulk - IHAS124-04 Version C (Black)

    OS:
    Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit

    PERIPHERALS:
    Logitech G500 Programmable Gaming Mouse
    SHARKOON Skiller 000SKSK Black 104 Normal Keys 20 Function Keys USB Wired Gaming Keyboard

    CASE:
    Cooler Master Elite 430 - Mid Tower Computer Case with All-Black Interior (RC-430-KWN1)

    POWER SUPPLY:
    CORSAIR Builder Series CX600 600W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply
     
  3. macrumors 65816

    lunaoso

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2012
    Location:
    New England, USA
    #3
    I would even consider installing OSX on the gaming PC. Make it a good second option for using OSX. Use it as your sole gaming machine and have both PC and Mac games, and then use the iMac as a productivity machine.
     
  4. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    #4
    Make it a Hackintosh. I did that after years of owning iMacs and I don't regret it at all. Still have the MBP for 'real' Mac stuff, but the Hack is so much faster and better, it's a great machine to use in either OS.

    I've currently got:

    Gigabyte UD5H motherboard
    i7 3770K @ 4GHz
    big fat cpu cooler
    16 GB RAM
    2 x GTX 670 graphics cards
    2 x SSD for the OS
    3 x HDD for storage and Time Machine
    cheapo DVD drive
    750W power supply

    It blasts through pretty much any current game on ultra settings, boots into OSX or Windows 8 in around 10 seconds and it was easier to build than most Ikea furniture. Plug and play. Strip out one of the graphics cards and it's not far off your budget.
     
  5. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2011
    Location:
    Rual NSW, Aus
    #5
    Don't forget an SSD, whilst it doesn't increase your FPS, it does make windows more bearable. The difference is massive!
     
  6. thread starter macrumors G3

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #6
    Is this hackintosh talk? Last time I looked into it (puttin MacOSX on Windows hardware), there seemed to be some issues.


    Are there any issues to building/owning a hackintosh? And are their any issues with dual booting it?

    ----------

    What did this ring up at? I realize you said it was about the price range I mentioned, just curious. What did you use for reference or build guides?
     
  7. macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2009
    #7
    I only recently became a Mac user in June 2011, before that I had been building/upgrading my own PCs (and friends and family) for about 12 years.

    I really like my iMac (currently a late 2012 27"), but I have considered running both a PC and Mac instead of just boot camping. What has stopped me is that I would really like to use my iMac as my PC monitor. I had considered using a Macbook or a Mac Mini with a third party monitor instead of an iMac, but neither option offer's enough on the spec side (except maybe the rMBP).

    If you can, I would recommend building a PC yourself as it can save you some $, and you have more control over which parts/manufacturers you use.
     
  8. macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    #8
    no reason to NOT go Hackintosh... if you build a Windows machine for gaming, just make sure to get Hackintosh compatible parts then dual boot it with OSX.

    All the info you need is at...

    http://www.tonymacx86.com/
     
  9. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    #9
    Honestly, it's extremely easy. If you can build a PC and install Windows on it, you have all the skills necessary to install OSX on it too.

    Just make sure you get a Gigabyte brand motherboard, as those ones are compatible with OSX out of the box. Other brands can require a bit of configuration. Nvidia graphics cards are usually preferred for ease of use.

    Possible issues - if you use the Apple OS updater, it might not boot properly afterwards, but as long as you have everything backed up on Time Machine, you can start again with a clean install. Happened to me once and I lost no data.

    Dual booting - it boots to a screen where you can choose OSX or Windows. I had to fiddle with the BIOS to stop Windows stealing boot priority all the time, but that's a one-off task.

    You've probably heard plenty of horror stories about Hackintoshes not working properly, but you can avoid all of that if you get a compatible motherboard. Most problems seem to be down to people trying to install OSX on any old PC.

    The tonymac forums are full of very helpful people who will walk you through any major issues. I'd never built a PC before I made this one, and I was surprised at just how simple it is.
     
  10. macrumors 68000

    phrehdd

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2008
    #10
    Skip the hackentosh nonsense and simply buy or make a good gaming PC. As you stated, you have your present system to run everything else in OSX. Apple insists on telling us what we want and misses the boat on a good market for gamers. I wont shed a tear for Apple and yes, I do too use OSX on a Mac.
     
  11. macrumors 65816

    lunaoso

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2012
    Location:
    New England, USA
    #11
    It's pretty easy now because of OSX being a digital download instead of being on a DVD. Dual booting is a little easier if you have two separate hard drives/SSDs, but yo can still do it with one.
     
  12. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    #12
    Alternatively, you could have a good gaming PC that's also a good Mac.

    It's not nonsense, it's adding value to your computer.
     
  13. mslide, Sep 17, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013

    macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    #13
    That's still a very good laptop. I'd build a gaming PC just for gaming and use your MBP for everything else. That's what I do. Just about any monitor supports multiple video inputs and switching. A $10 USB switch solves the keyboard/mouse part.

    I've done the hackintosh thing several times in the past on wide ranging hardware, including what sites like tonymac suggest. While it has gotten a lot easier, it's not the same as having a real mac and not worth it for me. I would only suggest it to people who really like to tinker and are ok with the idea of a software update breaking things. Even getting something as simple as dual monitors to work took me hours and this was with, I think, my 3rd hackintosh (and with a video card that was listed in tonymac's builds). If I didn't need my Mac to do my job I might feel differently but there's no way I'd rely on a hackintosh for professional use.

    If you really want to try the hackintosh thing, then I suggest building your own PC using parts from tonymacx86.com. Pay particular attention to the motherboard as that's by far the most important part. Video card is 2nd most important. Everything else doesn't matter as far as OSX is concerned. Look through their forums and read threads from people who used your exact same parts so you know what issues you're going to be running into. I'd still keep your MBP though.

    Most definitely yes to the first question. It depends on the parts you pick and what bells and whistles you want to work. For dualbooting, I suggest using 2 different hard drives, one for OSX and one for windows. I used 2 SSDs. Use your BIOS' boot menu to boot into one vs the other. It's a lot easier that way.
     
  14. thread starter macrumors G3

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #14
    There is no doubt for general computing duty, the MacOS is sweet. It's just not that good as a first choice for gaming.

    doh123, thanks for the link! There seems to be some real limits building a hackintosh. For example if I build a straight PC I can but a SAPPHIRE 100352-3L Radeon HD 7950 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card in it for $200. The 3GB card on Tony's list is $660.

    This was my original plan, but if I can put MacOS on another newer hardware, I'd consider it if it's not too much of a compromise, and there seems to be some compromises.

    For this case can you explain the difference between easier and harder? Thanks!
     
  15. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    #15
    Putting OSX and Windows on separate drives makes sense because if something goes wrong with one of them you can erase it without affecting the other. As long as you have a Time Machine drive in there too, you won't lose any of your OSX data.

    There's no compromise to the hardware. The Gigabyte boards are very good, you're not getting something sub-standard just so it runs OSX. I don't know what I could have done to get a higher spec gaming PC, other than go for better graphics cards.

    btw, the 3GB card you were looking at on tonymac's list is a GTX780, which wipes the floor with a 7950 - they're not even remotely comparable, hence much more expensive. There are cheaper Nvidia cards available (the 670 is great, just one of them runs World of Tanks at 60+ on ultra)
     
  16. thread starter macrumors G3

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #16
    Is the 670 a 2GB card and performance wise, I'm wondering if it is in the same ball park as the 7950? More research is in order. Thanks for the info!
     
  17. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Location:
    The Garden State
    #17
    I agree with the OP, if you like to game, just build a Windows gaming rig, it will beat any MacBook or iMac for the costs involved. I have a Windows PC which I use for gaming and even though it's about 2 years old, it still plays everything wonderfully. I do have bootcamp on my Mac, but that's just for on the go stuff when I need Windows.

    I thought about doing a Hackintosh, but I never had all the OSX friendly parts to do so. I actually like Apple's hardware, so I use my MBP/OSX for everything I do - except gaming.
     
  18. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    #18
    Those two cards are pretty similar - 670 gets slightly better benchmarks but only has 2GB, which might be a factor if you're using a huge monitor.

    Stick with Nvidia if you're going to run OSX on it - the 670 requires less (no) configuration.
     
  19. thread starter macrumors G3

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #19
    Thanks for the advice! One of the issues I was thinking about is that the PC I originally considered building had a 120GB SSD drive plus a 1TB drive. Originally I was going to put Windows on the SSD drive, but I don't want to mess up the 1TB drive for Windows. With considering OSX, it's probably better to get two 1 TB drives, one for Windows and one for Mac.
     
  20. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    #20
    Just wanted to add, that theres no point getting a nvidia 6xx series card now that the 7xx's are out. They use the same chipset (except for the 780), are better priced, and have higher clocked parts (including memory). Consider the 760 (equivalent/better alternative to the 670) or 770 (equivalent/better alternative to the 680).

    I'm going to be replacing a 680 in my desktop with a 770, and moving the 680 over to a htpc (which currently has an underpforming 6870). Both dual boot OS X and win7 without issues.

    And to the person above who said forget the hackintosh nonsense. I too have a relatively maxed out MBP (512mb ssd, high res screen, increased ram etc). But I do all my "real" mac work on my desktop hackintosh, which literally slaughters the MBP in terms of performance. It is hassle free, and in every which way a smoother osx experience than the "real" mac. But like the OP, I can reboot and play the latest games without thinking twice. Its win win (excuse the pun).
     
  21. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    #21
    Here's the straigt dope

    Here are the various sites I found and used. I was starting from zero in knowledge of building a PC. The elitegamingcomputers site was the most helpful, I basically picked one of their builds and ordered with few slight modifications suggested by my daughter.

    Below the sites I've listed the parts from the various shipping emails from amazon and newegg.

    http://pcpartpicker.com/p/tcYw

    http://elitegamingcomputers.com/buy/budget-builds/

    http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2012/12/gift-guide-build-a-custom-gaming-pc/

    http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html

    http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/the-geek-blog/building-a-new-computer-part-3-setting-it-up/

    http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/the-...art-4-installing-windows-and-loading-drivers/

    1 x ($299.99) SAPPHIRE 100352-2L Radeon HD 7950 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
    $299.99

    1 x ($199.99) ASUS VW246H Glossy Black 24" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 ASCR 20000:1 (1000:1) Built-in Speakers
    $199.99

    1 x ($99.99) Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - OEM
    $99.99

    1 x ($69.99) CORSAIR Builder Series CX600 600W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply
    $69.99

    1 x ($27.99) SHARKOON Skiller 000SKSK Black 104 Normal Keys 20 Function Keys USB Wired Gaming Keyboard
    $27.99

    Cooler Master Elite 430 - Mid Tower Computer Case with All-Black Interior (RC-430-KWN1) $41.98

    Logitech G500 Programmable Gaming Mouse
    Sold by Amazon.com LLC $56.12

    Corsair Vengeance 8 GB ( 2 x 4 GB ) DDR3 1600 MHz (PC3 12800) 240-Pin DDR3 Memory Kit ... $45.42

    Seagate Barracuda 7200 1 TB 7200RPM SATA 6 Gb/s NCQ 64MB Cache 3.5-Inch Internal Bare ... $79.23

    Intel Core i5-3570 Quad-Core Processor 3.4 GHz 6 MB Cache LGA 1155 - BX80637I53570 $212.99

    Lite-On Super AllWrite 24X SATA DVD+/-RW Dual Layer Drive - Bulk - IHAS124-04 Version ...$23.86
     
  22. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    #22
    I can think of a couple of good reasons. The low-end 7-series cards aren't that much better than the equivalent 6-series (same architecture) and a 670 is actually higher spec than a 760 anyway. Unless you go for a 780 or above, there's not a lot of difference.

    Also, price - I got a 670 for normal price a while ago, looked on Amazon recently and it was almost 50% off, so I got another. They're selling off last year's models cheap now, you can get a bargain.

    I had Windows on a 1TB drive initially but decided to get another SSD and move it over when I saw how fast OSX was booting on SSD. Had to buy a program to do the transfer, as my Windows skills are weak.

    SSD really unlocks the performance of the computer, it's worth having one for each OS.
     
  23. macrumors 65816

    lunaoso

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2012
    Location:
    New England, USA
    #23
    It's pretty basic as long as you follow directions. Here's the link to the guide for ML:
    http://www.tonymacx86.com/61-unibeast-install-os-x-mountain-lion-any-supported-intel-based-pc.html

    You can most likely find a guide for your specific motherboard to adjust your bios a little too, but nothing is necessary, other than setting the hard drive mode to AHCI mode and hitting optimize settings.

    Basically 2 or 3 hours of some decent research and following directions and you'll be up and running. :)
     
  24. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    #24
    Ah I didnt even think of that, good point. All the local stores here are holding the old prices. Obviously a 6xx series with prices slashed is a great way to go.
     
  25. macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    #25
    some of the prices seem slightly higher than they should... but what did you get for a motherboard, I don't see it listed. Unlikely you'd get that to Hackintosh well just because of the GPU though... but should be a decent gaming machine if you only want to run Windows.

    oh.. also, why a i5-3570 ? Thats an Ivy Bridge (older gen)... for the price you should go for a Haswell system.
     

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