Nexus 4 + 10 = same cost as iphone 5 32gb

[Vegastouch]

Shhhh.... Logic is not allowed on this forum, unless it is pro Apple. Really, the Nexus 4 is nice, but it is absolutely absurd that it doesn't include LTE support. Google could have sold far more had they included it.

It is going on sale all over the world next month. I think on the 14th. There was a reason why they didnt include LTE. Maybe you should search and find out why.
Maybe they will release a LTE version down the road but they are thinking of the world, not just a couple of USA carriers. I dont have LTE on T-Mobile but HSPA+ is pretty fast so i dont care that it dont have it.

----------

This spells trouble for Apple. You can get a Nexus 4 16gb + a Nexus 10 16gb - both products which have superior hardware specs than the iphone 5 and ipad - for the same price as an iphone 5 32gb.

Apple is pricing for profitability (i.e. leech the customers dry) while LG/Samsung/Google is pricing for market share.

Discuss.

Jon

Yep, i can get a N4 and a 32 GB N7 for $600.

 

[onthecouchagain]

It is going on sale all over the world next month. I think on the 14th. There was a reason why they didnt include LTE. Maybe you should search and find out why.
Maybe they will release a LTE version down the road but they are thinking of the world, not just a couple of USA carriers. I dont have LTE on T-Mobile but HSPA+ is pretty fast so i dont care that it dont have it.

Don't forget to add the 15+ hour talk time and 330 hours standby time you gain for losing LTE! Nearly double that of the iPhone's talk time.

 

[nickn]

I dont have LTE on T-Mobile but HSPA+ is pretty fast so i dont care that it dont have it.

The problem is that LTE is so fast, HSPA anything simply can't compare at this point. Take a look at the LTE Speedtest thread on the iPhone board. A good half of the people on there seem to be getting at least 40mbps down, with some getting even better. Can T go the speeds shown in the pics below?
https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=363250&d=1348637305
https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=366396&d=1349373005
https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=366374&d=1349369099

 

[onthecouchagain]

Well where is my freedom of choice to use all the awesome and productive apps i need and want to use on android then?

I'm not the Play Store. Research alternatives yourself or when developers will bring their apps to Android. Everywhere I read about this major disparity of apps, there are usually alternatives for them.

No one is knocking the one thing Apple happens to offer more choices in. But I think the tides are shifting very fast in terms of app selection and app quality (700,000 plus just announced, 75% marketshare just announced, Nexus line taking off). If freedom of apps trumps all the other freedoms Android offers you, it sounds like iOS is perfect for you.

I'm merely pointing out that all you were doing in the original post I quoted was demonstrating choice. You weren't making any points against it.

----------

The problem is that LTE is so fast, HSPA anything simply can't compare at this point. Take a look at the LTE Speedtest thread on the iPhone board. A good half of the people on there seem to be getting at least 40mbps down, with some getting even better. Can T go the speeds shown in the pics below?
https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=363250&d=1348637305
https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=366396&d=1349373005
https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=366374&d=1349369099

When a website loads in seconds on HSPA+ (and they do) the difference in speed will still be in seconds.

No one is denying LTE is faster. It's faster by a lot. But in real world use, webpages load in seconds anyway on HSPA+. How dramatic of a difference can those download speeds make in the span of a few seconds? What's the difference within those few seconds? The answer: seconds!

Same thing with streaming. You still listen to things at the same pace. If HSPA+ is loading it fast enough for you to watch or listen, that is more than sufficient. Even if you want to skip to another area, HSPA+ will simply load that area in seconds too.

Apps? Ditto. I pull download speeds of 6-9 MB/s on HSPA+. How many times will I download apps significantly larger than 6-9 MBs? And if I do, it's an additional few ... guess what?... seconds.

I understand that these differences are deal breakers for people. And I have said a number of times, Google should try to forge relations with carriers to release LTE and CDMA specific versions, especially in the years to come.

Personally, I'll take the difference of seconds for nearly double the battery life any day.

 

[nickn]

Personally, I'll take the difference of seconds for nearly double the battery life any day.

On my WiMax Evo 3D, the user can turn off the WiMax chipset and revert to CDMA Rev B comms for better battery life. Can other Android users not turn off LTE on their phones in the same fashion to save battery? Look, at this point, you are right. HSPA+ is acceptable, and pages do load fast. What i'm thinking though, is down the road. What about next year, or the year after? Around four or so years ago, I got a 3mbps DSL line installed to my home. While cable was faster, I didn't really see any problem with the slower speeds DSL had. Fast forward to 2012 with HD Netflix streams, 24MP photos that are near 20Mb a piece, and muti GB game downloads for my Xbox 360, and I had a problem. Technology changes! Who knows what bandwidth intensive applications will be around in a few years. I would rather have the LTE capability now than have to repurchase a new handset in a few years when I find everything to be unacceptably slow.

 

[onthecouchagain]

On my WiMax Evo 3D, the user can turn off the WiMax chipset and revert to CDMA Rev B comms for better battery life. Can other Android users not turn off LTE on their phones in the same fashion to save battery? Look, at this point, you are right. HSPA+ is acceptable, and pages do load fast. What i'm thinking though, is down the road. What about next year, or the year after? Around four or so years ago, I got a 3mbps DSL line installed to my home. While cable was faster, I didn't really see any problem with the slower speeds DSL had. Fast forward to 2012 with HD Netflix streams, 24MP photos that are near 20Mb a piece, and muti GB game downloads for my Xbox 360, and I had a problem. Technology changes! Who knows what bandwidth intensive applications will be around in a few years. I would rather have the LTE capability now than have to repurchase a new handset in a few years when I find everything to be unacceptably slow.

110% agree with you, as I said here:

I have said a number of times, Google should try to forge relations with carriers to release LTE and CDMA specific versions, especially in the years to come.

and here:

Google still has miles to pave. They need to forge better relations with the carriers so they can get LTE versions out to those who want that. And at this point and time, Google just doesn't have that sort of clout to put a device on a carrier and be in control of its software updates (the debacle with Verizon and the Galaxy Nexus, for example). For Google, if they can't control their own software and updates, there's almost no point in releasing a Nexus device to said carrier. It'll just make angry Nexus customers.

People ought to blame the carriers more than Google, but there's no shying away from the responsibilities; Google must forge relations.

And many times elsewhere on the forums. In agreement, mate.

 

[ixodes]

This spells trouble for Apple. You can get a Nexus 4 16gb + a Nexus 10 16gb - both products which have superior hardware specs than the iphone 5 and ipad - for the same price as an iphone 5 32gb.

Apple is pricing for profitability (i.e. leech the customers dry) while LG/Samsung/Google is pricing for market share.

Discuss.

Jon

It's just as you've stated. Apple values profits above all. Simply look at the massive revenue streams they have.

Google is more like other company's that strive to give value while also creating a revenue stream.

I was an Apple customer during their darkest days when it looked like they might fold, and _still_ they charged premium pricing. I give Apple credit even if I don't always agree with them. They've never wavered on their greed.

 

[jsw]

... Look, at this point, you are right. HSPA+ is acceptable, and pages do load fast. What i'm thinking though, is down the road. What about next year, or the year after?...

A couple of comments:

First, bear in mind that, unless Unlimited Data plans make a big comeback, faster access is simply going to allow you to hit those 3GB/5GB/whatever limits faster and then end up paying for more 1GB/etc chunks. Having slower (where "slower" is still many MB per second) connections aren't necessarily a bad thing in a world where you can hit your monthly cap and then exceed it in mere minutes with the faster speeds. This is very different than in the world of landline broadband, where caps are huge or nonexistent.

Second, mobile devices age quickly. Even if there's going to be a sea change a few years down the road, I don't think you'll be shooting yourself in the foot spending $300 now on an unlocked phone. I think the speed of the processor (or other features) will seem to be way more of an issue down the road than the download speeds, since 3G is fast enough for almost anything phone-based already (web/email/navigation/etc). Sure, HD movie streaming might (or might not) suffer, but who streams HD movies on their phones using their data plans, except those grandfathered into unlimited ones? I have an iPhone 3G. Its access speeds are comparable to those of my iPhone 4S (moderately slower, but not much in most areas). It's not the network speeds that make it seem old now - it's the screen, the processor, the memory capacity, and so on. That's going to be true of any device you buy now, and LTE won't make it take much (if any) longer to become obsolete.

 

[joshwithachance]

Too bad the Nexus 4 and 10 aren't as desirable as the iPhone 5 and iPad mini/4th Gen. This is Apple we're talking about here... Having cheaper products than their competitors was, and probably never will be, their game.

 

[sotorious]

I can not wait till nov 13 getting both of these and maybe a nexus 7 at the same time. Have apple for a shot for a year and a half and in bored of the OS already. Left android around gingerbread. Ever since jelly bean and project butter I been dying to get back. I'll prob try apple again around when iOS 7 comes out because I'm
Sure by then they will have revamped the OS as so many people are bitching about. Nov 13 couldn't come sooner.

 

[marc11]

Too bad the Nexus 4 and 10 aren't as desirable as the iPhone 5 and iPad mini/4th Gen. This is Apple we're talking about here... Having cheaper products than their competitors was, and probably never will be, their game.

According to who? I purchased a Nexus 7 after waiting for the iPad mini event and found the Nexus 7 to be more desirable...to that end, if I wanted a 10 inch tablet, the Nexus 10 is far more desirable to me than an iPad 4...I know because my wife has the iPad 3.

And define "cheap"...people have a problem with associating the word cheap with poor quality as opposed to inexpensive. And what is cheap? Clearly the stuff that matters, the processor, memory, screen and OS in the Nexus line are far from cheap, in fact they beat the best Apple is offering now.

Apple can still make the iPhone 5 and iPad and sell them for far less than they do and they would be no less "cheap" than they are now.

Imagine that? Imagine if the iPad 4 16 GB was sold for $399 or $349? Apple would still make a decent profit and sell tons of them. That is not what Apple does, Apple creates the feeling of quality and the feeling of exclusivity through price. It is a joke really.

The problem for Apple is that it has no where to go but down. When you are the leader the hardest thing to do is to remain the leader, while the runners up, the easiest thing to do is to work hard to try and catch the leader, see the leaders missteps and take advantage of them.

IMHO Apple has made several flaws in its business plan recently...despite the sales numbers short, term, long term these will hurt them:

1) OSX Lion/Mountain Lion, bugs, changes and the overall rapid deployment of OS upgrades.
2) iOS 6
3) Price/value of the iPad mini
4) Short life cycle of the iPad 3
5) Move away from user upgradable laptops and desktops
6) Pure lack of proffesional support
7) Device support feature deletion through OS upgrades

Google and MS see this, they hear the market and are bringing it to Apples front door. Apple must now react.

 

[Sensamic]

You know...


We should actually thank Apple for their overpriced products and how many Apple fans don't care to pay whatever they ask.

It is thanks to this that companies like Google are so desperate to gain attention and market share that they lower the price so much.

So, in the end, we customers win, specially those of us who like Android or WP8, because we get amazing products at an even more amazing price!

So thanks Apple. It is thanks to you that I will save a lot of bucks when buying the nexus 7 or 10 and maybe the 4.

It's just nuts that the nexus 7 32GB is only 249$!! Let the iPad mini be 329$ or 499$ if it wants. The more expensive it becomes the more cheap the nexus line will become

 

[roxxette]

Desperate ?

 

[Purant]

Too bad the Nexus 4 and 10 aren't as desirable as the iPhone 5 and iPad mini/4th Gen. This is Apple we're talking about here... Having cheaper products than their competitors was, and probably never will be, their game.

Hmm... Actually, my desire for an iPad died when I saw the Nexus 10. I can't find anything wrong with it and the price is very good.

I still want an iPhone 5 though.

 

[onthecouchagain]

A couple of comments:

First, bear in mind that, unless Unlimited Data plans make a big comeback, faster access is simply going to allow you to hit those 3GB/5GB/whatever limits faster and then end up paying for more 1GB/etc chunks. Having slower (where "slower" is still many MB per second) connections aren't necessarily a bad thing in a world where you can hit your monthly cap and then exceed it in mere minutes with the faster speeds. This is very different than in the world of landline broadband, where caps are huge or nonexistent.

Second, mobile devices age quickly. Even if there's going to be a sea change a few years down the road, I don't think you'll be shooting yourself in the foot spending $300 now on an unlocked phone. I think the speed of the processor (or other features) will seem to be way more of an issue down the road than the download speeds, since 3G is fast enough for almost anything phone-based already (web/email/navigation/etc). Sure, HD movie streaming might (or might not) suffer, but who streams HD movies on their phones using their data plans, except those grandfathered into unlimited ones? I have an iPhone 3G. Its access speeds are comparable to those of my iPhone 4S (moderately slower, but not much in most areas). It's not the network speeds that make it seem old now - it's the screen, the processor, the memory capacity, and so on. That's going to be true of any device you buy now, and LTE won't make it take much (if any) longer to become obsolete.

Excellent points regarding LTE that I didn't even consider.

HSPA+ is a great balance of speed, battery life, and managing data usage.

 

[Vegastouch]

Too bad the Nexus 4 and 10 aren't as desirable as the iPhone 5 and iPad mini/4th Gen. This is Apple we're talking about here... Having cheaper products than their competitors was, and probably never will be, their game.

They are selling 1 million Nexus 7's a month...and thats before the 32GB version. And who said the iPad mini is desirable? It doesnt even have a HD screen and it is more money. Price matters whether you think it does or not.

 

[onthecouchagain]

And who said the iPad mini is desirable?

I'm going to go with "Millions of Apple fans" for $200, Alex.

 

[cynics]

Nexus is really expensive over here in Scandinavia :/


If you open a PDF in Safari on iOS you have the option to send it to Dropbox. In Dropbox you can mark it as a "favourite" which downloads it locally. If you don't have Dropbox you can save it locally to any other PDF viewer, e.g. iBooks.

No it doesn't.

I need to open it in a view first. Then as soon as I try to open in Dropbox from adobe it crashes adobe.

I'm going to try to do a soft reboot to see if that fixes the crashing. I'll post back.

EDIT: still crashes. I looked up reviews of Adobe Reader and other people were reporting the same crashing problem. I did find it saving the PDF's I viewed locally though! In the recent section. However I refuse to pay for a PDF reader to avoid the crashing issue. Android does this perfectly for free.

 

[Sugadaddy]

I'm going to go with "Millions of Apple fans" for $200, Alex.

You know what you can buy with that $200?


A 16GB Nexus 7!

 

[hot spare]

I am going bit off-topic here. There was a discussion on Android customization. I would like to share a video on how you can make a Android phone look and feel the way you exactly want. This is a Note2 review video, but just check how he set-up the phone he wanted.

 

[sineplex]

This spells trouble for Apple. You can get a Nexus 4 16gb + a Nexus 10 16gb - both products which have superior hardware specs than the iphone 5 and ipad - for the same price as an iphone 5 32gb.

Apple is pricing for profitability (i.e. leech the customers dry) while LG/Samsung/Google is pricing for market share.

Discuss.

Jon

for the price of a farrari, i can buy a few houses and an apartment.
apples and oranges. get what i'm say'n?

 

[RetepNamenots]

Shhhh.... Logic is not allowed on this forum, unless it is pro Apple. Really, the Nexus 4 is nice, but it is absolutely absurd that it doesn't include LTE support. Google could have sold far more had they included it.

There are plenty of markets where LTE still isn't relevant. I'm in the UK, and there is one network offering LTE, at absurd prices.

Why should I pay more for hardware that I'll never use?

Much like the Galaxy Nexus, they can also release an LTE version later for the markets that want it.

 

[Jibbajabba]

What surprises me more is that people keep open the same threads and people keep discussing the same topic over and over and ........ out

 

[cynics]

It is KIND OF funny. Although I was never a huge advocate of LTE due to battery drain but a lot of people bashed the iPhone so hard for not having it. Now they have a power efficient LTE system and the N4 doesn't have it and its no big deal.

Since a non LTE version will never be on Verizon I also don't think it's a huge deal (Verizon's 3G is horrible) I don't think it's a big deal either really. Just an observation of the irony.

I understand for people that don't live in the USA it's never been a big deal.

 

[onthecouchagain]

No it doesn't.

Image

I need to open it in a view first. Then as soon as I try to open in Dropbox from adobe it crashes adobe.

Image

I'm going to try to do a soft reboot to see if that fixes the crashing. I'll post back.

EDIT: still crashes. I looked up reviews of Adobe Reader and other people were reporting the same crashing problem. I did find it saving the PDF's I viewed locally though! In the recent section. However I refuse to pay for a PDF reader to avoid the crashing issue. Android does this perfectly for free.

Indeed. I frequently use DropBox and it's a pain to see it not supported via sharing through iOS.

I don't get why Apple doesn't just let people share with whatever apps they want.

People keep making this big fuss about how the App Store has apparently infinitely more and better apps, but what's the point when you can't even set them as a default browser or launcher or keyboard or share to it easily? iOS is such a gimped system, it's amazing people tolerate it. I suspect many iOS users who love their device are becoming fed up with the lack of customization, or have been silently frustrated. I can't imagine anyone who wants to do more than just liesure activities have not met some sort of obstacle due to iOS' limitations.

As I've said before, customization is far more than aesthetics. It's customizing function and controls too and it goes a long way in making a device usable.

It's so easy on the Android to do things. It should be just as easy on such a simple and superior OS, but it's not the case with iOS.