No Apple PDA

Discussion in 'MacRumors News Discussion (archive)' started by arn, Jul 20, 2002.

  1. arn
    macrumors god

    arn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2001
    #1
    Financial Analyst Meeting Webcast also provides more information about Steve Jobs' view of PDA's.

    (26m 25s) Steve Jobs speaks about how they decided about 3 years ago, they felt that PDAs would eventually evolve into next generation Cell Phones, and that PDA's will become a smaller market.

    This is not the first time that Apple/Jobs has downplayed the possiblity of an Apple PDA.
     
  2. macrumors 68000

    Joined:
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    Where am I???
    #2
    Hopefully, this will put the Apple PDA talk to rest for good...although I doubt it.
     
  3. macrumors 6502a

    drastik

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2002
    Location:
    Nashvegas
    #3
    oh, yeah, maybe we can finally put that one to rest, but now we're gonna get the phone rumors. Maye valid though, a sonyE made Apple Branded phone.
    ;)
     
  4. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2002
    #4
    As I've suspected for a while (since that Erikkson deal). They won't make the current form of PDA. I still think something is in the works in this market though. More cell phone related.
     
  5. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    #5
    PDA / Handheld

    Thankfully there is a big difference between a PDA and a handheld.
    The iPod is almost a PDA.
    But I still dream of the day Apple releases a handheld.
     
  6. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    #6
    See. Now this explanation makes sense. Frankly I agree - PDAs are too bulky (heck, lots of cell phones are too), but many of the things they do are still useful. The trick is figuring out how to put all that - the screen, the writing area - in such a tiny package. If anyone can do it, Apple can. I'm guessing we're waiting on effective voice recognition/reproduction and eye projections before this will be a reality.
     
  7. macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2002
    #7
    Heh heh....:p :p

    I wonder what people will talk about now??? :confused: :p

    Eye will be pleased though at the thought of no more Apple PDA threads...... :D


    I'd still like to see Apple make a portable media player........ like an iPod/Quicktime player combo....... that can stream content on the fly and store movies...... all in a svelte, clean, minimal case........ :)
     
  8. macrumors 6502a

    ShaolinMiddleFinger

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2001
    #8
    I hope more cell phones companies jump on the bandwagon because the Sony and Ericsson phones look ugly. I would really like it if Nokia joined the game. Nokia was the first cell phone company to allow consumers to customize their phone. They also have a pda/minicomputer phone, the 9290. Go to nokia.com to see it.
     
  9. macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2002
    #9
    I totally agree with you here....... the Sony/Ericsson look like those crazy i-mode phones in Japan..... any even worse is that they only look cool in Teletubby land..... It's a shame cos I love the Sony Z7 phone..... it's so cool looking and I'm sure that Sony/Ericsson could do better than what they're currently doing......

    Although I'm not really a fan of Nokia........ the last great fone they did was the 7110...... although there's a Nokia ad on UK tv at the mo.... advertising Minority Report and at the end there's a really cool Nokia fone, with a sliding keyboard, kind of like the reverse of the 7710........ gimmicks.... gotta love them...... :p
     
  10. macrumors 6502a

    ShaolinMiddleFinger

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2001
    #10
    You should go and look up the Nokia 8890. It's almost like 7100 series phones but smaller,built in antenna with world phone capabilities. That's the one I have. It's a great phone. There's also the 8910 but it doesn't work here in the states so looks like I have to wait for that one to come here
     
  11. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2001
    Location:
    boston
    #11
    nokia 9220 is nice, runs flash, wicked slow proc., limited RAM, etc. imagine a cellphone that:

    1. stored contact lists / dialed / stored messages
    2. had a didital camera that could send images via ftp or email
    3. had a flash-front end for the OS
    4. had a qwerty keyboard
    5. had 128M+ RAM
    6. had 60Gig drive
    7. could last 20 hrs. normal use
    8. could be switched to phone mode only to save power
    9. was always "on"
    10. doubled as a pager/messenger
    11. streaming video (ie. FoxNews mini-feed)
    12. gps built in

    i'm sure it's real close to becoming a reality. apple & macromedia could work with a Sony and Toshiba, etc. to make this a reality!!!

    i would love to see this.
     
  12. macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    #12
    Certainly the iPod has become a lot cheaper, but I think adding on all these functions (cell phone, Internet, some wireless crap) would bring the price up on this PDA, especially if there was a lot of compressed and expensive hardware, such as the 1.8 inch Hard Drive. It wouldn't make sense, anyways. How many people are actually going to use all of the functions on the PDA? To name a few...
    Address Book
    mp3 player
    Portable Hard Drive
    Calendar
    Clock
    Breakout :)D)
    Phone
    Remote
    Pictures

    If you really need all these features for a cheap price from Apple, you are a total geek. :rolleyes: :D
     
  13. macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Location:
    Little Rock, AR
    #13
    That's too bad....

    Apple basically created the market with the revolutionary Newton - which is still the best PDA to date (I own a Newton Messagepad 2000 AND a Compaq iPaq 3835). The truth is, that Sculleys original vision for the Personal Digital Assistant (a quoin he termed) was that of a wireless communication device. That's why it prints, faxes, emails, and makes phone calls out of the box - features that neither Palm or Pocket PC have yet to totally integrate. It was just 10 years too early.

    It's a complete shame that Jobs didn't just let Newton Inc. sail on its own, as it may have evolved into the original "hybrid" communication device that Sculley envisioned and Jobs is now predicting. Hey Steve...newsflash: this is what the Newton was envisioned to become!

    Apple DID own this market, and abandon it just as it took off. It's now poised to explode as wireless connectivity becomes commonplace - resulting in hybrid communication devices. The market for desktops has matured, but wireless handhelds are the next wave. It will be huge.

    For all of you who abhore the idea of a handheld, so be it. But while you're shackeled to your desktop, a slave to your desk making fun of PDA's, I'll be travelling the world and the web all at once. Unfortunately, it won't be on Apple hardware.
     
  14. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2002
    #14
    While mobile phones are here to stay and their rise in popularity has been phenominal (particually in Europe, where I live), for Apple to jump on the mobile bandwagon and manufacture phones would be madness.

    The main reason why Motorola (and many other phone manufacturers) have hit financial rough water is because of their rush too make make newer phones and sell them at a loss. The mobile phone market is moving faster than the computer market at the moment. Only Nokia seem to doing OK financially.

    Apple are right to intergrate them into their operating system - even though there's no Apple Bluetooth hardware yet, but they should leave the phones themselves to others.
     
  15. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    #15
  16. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    #16
    Jobs does not equal God...

    Many of you think that if Master Jobs has spoken...the decision has been made. While this may have some practical merit...I still maintain that SJ is simply wrong on this issue.

    Unfortunately, by being wrong, Steve is hurting Apple with this short-sighted and visionless position.

    There is a need for ultra-portable computing solutions. Currently, the only options that exist suck; what's worse, none of them integrate with the Apple OS well.

    I'll never stop talking about PDAs and/or Ultra-portable solutions. It is a logical computing outlet. Just because Steve Jobs doesn't need it doesn't mean that there isn't a viable need for it. It just means that Steve fails to recognize such a need.

    It troubles me that so many of you are willing to surrender your decision on the topic based solely on the decision of Steve Jobs. We convert Steve to a God only to our detriment; at the point that the Apple community turns him into a religious icon...the future of Apple computing will look bleak indeed.

    Now...let's continue discussing PDAs.
     
  17. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2002
    #17
    I have an Ericsson T39 phone, one of the one's supported by iSync, and like all the Ericsson phones I know of, it comes in various colours. Mine is black, and certainly doesn't look like something from tellytubby land. :)

    And the big advantage over the Z7 (I had the Z5 before) is that it actually has a decent UI. The Sony Z5/Z7 have perhaps the worst interface ever put on a cellphone. The jog wheel is only the beginning, it's totally horrible. I don't like Nokia phones, but UI is one thing they do well.

    I recommend the T39 to anybody wanting a phone to work with iSync.
     
  18. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale, Florida
    #18
    For the most part, if Jobs has spoken, that is the decision.

    Thats funny though. Most people like to believe that Steve Jobs is the absolute authority. It allows them to believe that Apple is a person, not a business. Then we can get whatever products we want because Steve's a nice guy. In your case, when Steve says no to something you've set your heart on, now we have to realize that Steve is not the Absolute Authority.

    Just because you need an ultra-portable computer solution doesn't mean sufficiently profitable market exists. That's what business is about. Steve could give a dam about our needs unless those needs can be met for a profit. PDA's or UPCS's if you want, are not profitable right now. Infact, they're dying. Handspring's Treo's are closer to the next gen of PDA's. Apple is not just gonna jump into that market when they know its bleeding left and right.

    You dont ever have to stop talking about PDA's. But keep ranting about an Apple-branded one and you'll just be embarrasing yourself. This is a legitimate need for you. But don't expect Apple to meet it. Cause they aint interested.



    Truth Hertz....
     
  19. Moderator emeritus

    AmbitiousLemon

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2001
    Location:
    down in Fraggle Rock
    #19
    Re: That's too bad....

    i think these were the best couple of comments ive seen posted here. and although they seem to be of different opinions, i have to agree with both of them. apple is writing off the pda/cell concept because they do not feel they can enter the market in a profitable or competitive manner.

    that being said we must remember that the ipod has been stated to be a 'testing the waters' device and has been a huge sucess. apple is not blind. they will enter markets where they can find profitability. still i think many who oppose a pda are simply opposed because they lack imagination and have the image of a current palm handheld in mind. i do not think any of us believe apple should enter the handheld market in any manner that can be likened to current handheld options.

    apple is right that pda functionality can be easily and appropriatly incorporated into cell phones. this is a good place for thsi functionality since it does not require much processor power and everyone carries a cellphone already.

    but what apple has not discussed in any of these statements and what most people here seem to miss is that when the few apple pda faithful discuss what they want they are not describing machineschines that can be thought of as modern pdas. what we are describing is largely a wireless termainal for controling our desktops remotely, relaying information, providinga wireless synching terminal for other devices (like steve's uber-phone), and doing this all not by giving us all the components of a desktop miniturized (as handheld peecees do) but by providing the minimal amount of hardware needed to properly use the power built-in to our other devices (desktop, cellphone, etc). bluetooth, airport, rendezvous, inkwell these are the technologies that bring the power of our other devices together. all we need is something portable taht allows us to use that monster desktop processor wherever we go. this is not a smaller laptop, merely a portable terminal for all our devices. this is not what is ever discussed in these jobsian quotes.
     
  20. macrumors 65816

    Nipsy

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2002
    #20
    I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

    A device (be it Apple or otherwise) needs to exist which combines the pocket luggage.

    I carry an iPod, a Palm, a digital camera, and a cell phone. This is too much. Others carry the above, plus a pager (or even two).

    The technologies in these items are too closely related not to be combined.

    The iPod has a 20gb drive as of Aug. 1. This is enough space to run 15GB of music, 4GB of photos, and 1 GB of PDA OS & soft telephony (um, 3G. Okay, install the 3G software, Pager? Okay, install the pager software, You need GPS? Here's the package. IM? Web? Mail?...etc.).

    You won't complain about outdated phones, because you'll dl the new package to take advantage. It can work with any network which develops a software package.

    Tie in a nice, but not pro level, ccd via a card slot, and you've got a mid-range camera. GPS may require its own hardware as well. You get the idea...

    Danger is close (I've used their device), but lack in the storage area.

    Treo/Samsung/etc have integrated PDA/Phone.

    iPod is PDA sans input.

    It doesn't take rocket science to KNOW that this product will exist, but the question is who will make it, and when will it arrive.

    To succeed it needs to be:
    a) functional across all target arenas
    b) elegant enough to justify a $5-600 price
    c) robust enough to make redundant its competition

    Without speculating on Apple's foray into this market, I can tell you that they have the IP & R & D to do it better than Danger. Previous to the iPod, no-one thought Apple was going to target the already saturated MP3 market. I would go so far as to say that Apple spends more on R & D annually than Danger has been given by VCs.

    BTW, the ceo of Danger is a former Apple employee (Andy Rubin), and Woz does sit on their board.

    The usual suspects (eye, Alpha...) will argue against this, or at least against it being made by Apple, but there are many companies who realize that people will pay to integrate their 'devices'. While it will not be the best at all intended tasks, it could fill a major void for those who need a good 'everything' device. No-one wants to be walking down the street with a tool belt full of pack 'o smokes size gadgets when one will do.

    Save for policemen, and über geek elitists...
     
  21. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    #21
    It truly depends on what it is. I seem to recall him announcing the death of the CRT with the introduction of the lcd iMac. Sure people pointed out that the original crt iMac was still available so we figured well that will be just to clear stock. What did Apple do? Come out with the eMac to the education market and then the consumer market. So quite frankly I think we're starting to see that Jobs isn't as much of the tunnel vision tyrant that many used to see him as. Don't get me wrong as he is the boss afterall so him speaking should be the decision but it's open to review and change it seems now where it may not have been before.
     
  22. macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2002
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    #22
    Newton is still king

    I have to agree with the above poster. I have owned a slew of Newton devices, Windows CE devices and am eyeing the new PocketPC devices. Newton, even today, is far more powerful than these devices. The *only* reason Apple killed the Newton was Steve's ego. Actually, they had broken away from Apple and formed Newton Inc right before Steve came back in. Steve yanked Newton back into Apple and then killed them. There was no financial reason to do this, unless it was an ego thing.

    The Newton was designed to be fully expandable. It prints, faxes, e-mails, surfs the web, I have mine on my 802.11 network, has the worlds best handwriting recognition, and thinks like you do. I can use it to take notes on the fly and not have to learn graffiti... Actually, it does not matter. Steve's ego killed the Newton.

    Steve is 100% correct. The PDA will become the all in one device, just like what the Newton was. Apple owned this market, and rather than capitalize on their extreme lead in market, they killed the project. Were there problems with the Newton? Yes, but had Apple listened to their customers they could have worked it all out.

    The point is that this is not a Steve is right thing. Apple already had and sold this technology. Even to this day it's better than most devices out there. But I think early next year the tables will turn, PocketPC will have caught up and I'll buy a Pocket PC device. Since they only really sync to a PC, I guess I'll be buying a PC too. I use 2000 and XP all day at work, and it's not that bad. OS X is better, but if I can't sync my PDA then I don't want it.

    I think Apple is doing anything it can do keep its market share down. Why listen to your customers when you have a vision and it *has* to be right. I will wait 1 year. I *MAY* get the Sony/Ericsson P800 w/ bluetooth. That might fit the bill, but I will be giving up a lot to get that functionality (at the same time, it will be more convenient.)

    Anyhow, that's just my $5.75. I have been wrong many times before and please remember that it's just my opinion. Some of this may be dead on, other stuff may be wrong. Take any post with a grain of salt.

    -SD
     
  23. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    Location:
    :: sfbay.ca :: All bay, all day.
    #23
    Please, read this carefully

    A handheld computer is different from a PDA. Apple was careful not to call the Newton 2x00 series a PDA, which it isn't. It includes those functions, but the final Newtons were very small computers, plain and simple.

    Jobs is right. The PDA is going away. He's right, 3G cell phones are going to move into the contact management space.

    But I think Jobs knows the difference between a PDA and a handheld, and what's more is he knows his competitors listen carefully to these analyst meetings. The smoke put off by his rant against 'PDAs' could be enough to cover Apple's tracks in the handheld direction.

    Any handheld from Apple won't be a 'PDA'; it will be a full-functioned, scaled-down Macintosh with a new set of functions tailored to extreme portability. And I still expect to see that, when the time is right, which, right now, it isn't.
     
  24. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    Location:
    :: sfbay.ca :: All bay, all day.
    #24
    One more thing

    Any Apple nut should absolutely listen to the entire meeting re-broadcast. Fascinating stuff directly from Jobs and crew.
     
  25. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2002
    #25
    iSync?

    Wasn't there a software demonstration using iSync to sync a cell phone and os x during the macworld keynote?
     

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