No HL2 for us :-(

Discussion in 'Games' started by jadam, Nov 24, 2004.

  1. jadam macrumors 6502a

    jadam

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    #1
  2. neoelectronaut macrumors 68020

    neoelectronaut

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    #2
    Oh boo hoo. It's just a damn videogame. Get over it.
     
  3. Barham macrumors regular

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    Feb 5, 2004
    #3
    I don't consider it to be just a damn video game. Games are probably the most important market a computer manufacturer can corner. I'm sorry, but your sentiments aren't welcome.

    It is very dissappointing that Cyan's port team couldn't crack Havok. I don't agree that it means we won't get HL2. I think we wont get it because our market is too small for the cost to develop Havok for Mac. Valve or some other company with more resources than the heavily depleted Cyan could get it done. It's just a matter of cost.

    -Hasta
     
  4. applekid macrumors 68020

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    #4
    I, personally, won't care. I was disappointed by my review of Half Life 2 which you can read in the HL2 thread. I see Steam to be more of a obstacle than Havok. Steam is quite annoying. It checks your files and CD keys whenever you want to play Half Life 2 or CS:S. And besides the rumor that Valve wants (Link) big money for the license to port, I really don't like Valve's licensing tactics and its uptightness ever since the hacking incident.

    However, I think we need to see a port of the Havok SDK. Quite a few games using it now and in the future. MoH:pA and Ghost Recon 2 have predecessors on the Mac. Their popularity is definitely isn't anything that hasn't gone unnoticed. Those two games definitely warrant a port of the Havok engine.

    Wrong. Games only sell up to 8 million copies, but usually the hundred of thousands to a few million copies. That means if there's, at max, 8 million PC gamers out in the world, their population is smaller than the MacOS X population of 22 million. And, to add to that, business is still the number one reason computers are being bought.
     
  5. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #5
    Halflife2 is a great game and you can now play it off line. You just have to save your settings but what else is new in the Mac vs Pc world. There is allways one more step on the PC vs Mac but the truth is this games rocks if you have the muscle to turn it all the way up. I gIve it a 94 out of 100. It has a few minor faults but all in all its another Doom3 but instead of inside Mars you are driving dune buggys and airboats. I loved Doom3 and am loving HL2. Still wish i had a new Mac and though Gaming is superior on the PC (amd 3500+ 6800GT the OS on the Mac is far superior in my opinion and ilife seals the deal. Windows has gotten better but still is windows. Now if only they would give iMac a real videocard. :rolleyes: I just may let go this new Alienware machine for the next revision Mac.
     
  6. Barham macrumors regular

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    #6
    Alright then.

    Games are the most important consumer market that Apple can corner. I don't see Apple taking over the business market anytime soon, but they are very capable of adding the 8 million which is a bogus statistic anyway. Not to mention the fact that gamers spend the most on equipment. Gamers sell high end computers, that is a fact. It also cracks the key teenage market that Apple is starting to break into with iPod. The only thing that keeps these kids from begging (quite effectively) for a mac from mom and dad is that they (Macs) don't play games.

    -Hasta
     
  7. benpatient macrumors 68000

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    #7
    applekid, you didn't review HL2 you reviewed steam...and sorry your experience was so bad, but mine was literally picture perfect. I was playing HL2 at 12:32 AM on the 16th, pacific standard time (31 minutes after they unlocked it).

    I can honestly say that it's hands down the best FPS game I've ever played.
     
  8. vraxtus macrumors 65816

    vraxtus

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    #8
    Wait... you're SURPRISED?


    OK so why did you think that suddenly Valve would decide that a Mac port would be a GOOD idea when the original HL never came out for Mac and was cancelled very early on?

    Frankly I'm not surprised at all and I never expected it to come out for Mac.
     
  9. oingoboingo macrumors 6502a

    oingoboingo

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    #9
    That logic is completely broken. It would only be correct if only the 8 million people who bought whatever blockbuster title you are referring to were the only ones who ever bought games. That's not correct. The PC gaming population is much, much larger than 8 million.
     
  10. applekid macrumors 68020

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    #10
    benpatient, I did definitely only review Steam for a paragraph or two. Everything else was all HL2 or CS:S and there's a lot there. It was over hyped in my opinion or it was really rushed. It didn't feel like that next-generation game engine it was supposed to be. I blame the hacker that screwed things up more than Valve though. If there was more interactivity, I don't think there would be so much of a hit on gameplay. It just made it another shooter. There are a few creepy moments though, but it wasn't anything like Doom 3. But, like I said, I think HL and CS just wasn't my cup of tea in the first place, so it wasn't all that great to me. CS:S was pretty good though, but wouldn't be something I could stay addicted to long enough.

    oingoboingo & Barham, what I'm getting at is the PC gaming market is a niche market. There really aren't that many gamers when you look at the big picture.

    Apple is still doing great as a pro machine manufacturer and even pretty well as a consumer manufacturer. The gaming market isn't something Apple has to grab. People are migrating towards consoles more. Your regular teen that has an iPod is not going to have the ambition to build a gaming PC nor give the time and money for a regular PC and maintain it as a gaming rig. Looking around my computer science class (they have to be the nerdiest of the nerdy, right? ;) ), I think there's only one or two people that can be considered as gamers. The rest are either playing low system requirement games (such as games from Blizzard), consoles, or no games at all. Our class size is about 20-25 people. Okay, looking at the kids that have iPods, that I know of, I think only one of them can be considered a gamer out of about six people I know with iPods.

    8 million is not a bogus statistic. That's how many copies of Half Life was sold: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=33&threadid=1436283&enterthread=y . 8 million is more than generous considering the average PC game isn't even close to selling 8 million copies now. Alright, let's look at a game only the highest end computers can play that has sales numbers at the moment: Doom 3. 1 million copies as of early November. "Games are probably the most important market a computer manufacturer can corner?" Yeah, right. :D

    How can you prove to me the PC gaming population is greater than 8 million? Let me give you my reasoning why it's less than 8 million: I think it can be assumed almost everyone has Half Life. The PC gaming market as a whole is shrinking. Consoles are eating up video game profits, not PCs. PC gaming companies are barely making profits. Business doesn't seem all that great for a PC game developer, so how can the market be so big? Because it's not.
     
  11. Barham macrumors regular

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    #11
    Half-Life is the most pirated game of all time.

    Secondly, you ignored my alterations to my original statement. I said that Gamers are the most important consumer market that Apple can corner. I will assume that the reason you neglected this point is because you have no defense for it. My first statement was rushed and incorrect. The new one is much better and I know that you have no response other than your increasingly weak argument that there are only 8 million people that buy PC games. The actual number doesn't matter. If it is as "low" as 8 million and Apple could corner even 25% of the market (ones that own iPods perhaps?), they would add to their total users by 10% and that my friend is a big number for any computer manufacturer. I'm not saying apple should become a hack gaming rig manufacturer, I'm saying that if they could corner the "rich kid gamers" (they exist, my little brother and his friends all qualify), it would be very beneficial. The more markets you reach (teens, gamers, pro, consumer, senior), the more recognition you get, which means more computers sold. Though it may not be the most important market, it is a very important one for Apple.

    -Hasta
     
  12. applekid macrumors 68020

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    #12
    Do you not read? Why does Apple need to grab a dying market? Do you not see it? The PC gaming market is not seeing high profits. The PC gaming market is seeing profits slide. Consoles games are where the profits are, not PC games. Apple picks up gamers, then those gamers will eventually evaporate. Great waste of effort. Unless the PC gaming market sees improvements, Apple shouldn't waste any more effort than they are.

    What you're saying is since all of these teens are buying iPods, they probably are gamers, too. That's a bad assumption. I can name plenty of teens from my own school that do not game and have iPods. I can name plenty of teens from my own school that have PCs, but aren't using them for gaming. You're making assumptions that an iPod = teen = PC gamer. Horrible assumption. At best, you'll find a casual gamer, and they'll only be buying a few games a year, and even then, it's usually games that aren't latest and greatest. Or, you'll find a console gamer. These teen are usually not the ones to have the cash to buy/build a PC and probably saved up a lot of money for that iPod. If you're a gamer and building gaming rigs for well under $1,000, you're gonna have some trouble justifying that iPod or even iPod mini when you're busy buying more upgrades. iPod owners that have PCs aren't going to be gamers you may be looking for.

    The point is, the gaming market is nearly the last thing on Apple's list of things to take. People are emphasizing way too much on the dying PC gaming market.
     
  13. virividox macrumors 601

    virividox

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  14. Capt Underpants macrumors 68030

    Capt Underpants

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    #14
    Says the one that wants a PS2 for Katamari Damacy...

    edit: The same thing could be said about your favorite anime. Boo hoo, it's just a damn cartoon. Get over it.
     
  15. AppleMatt macrumors 68000

    AppleMatt

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    #15
    Woah this is really shaky maths...anyway...

    Games are considered one of the primary driving forces in computer development, both PC and console. You can't just negate them in one sentence.

    Businesses will buy machines to suit their needs, and typically for the most part this will be a contract bulk purchase of "just adequate" machines. Gamers will buy the latest X850/6800, fast RAM, etc etc which drives the cost of manufacture down and R&D budgets up, pushing innovation along.

    You can type and format a letter on a 486.

    But anyway, your opinion is your opinion. Let me just highlight some other facts for you though, the software used by businesses will not be pirated, because they just can't afford the risk. Games will. So what if Half-Life sold 8m boxes, I'm positive since it's been released it's been downloaded far more times than that. You can't pirate hardware.

    AppleMatt
     
  16. mattmack macrumors 6502a

    mattmack

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    #16
    I agree with this but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to see more games for the mac.
    It is obvious that Apple marketing considers a casual gamer to be more important than a hardcore gamer. Otherwise they would push for faster ports or offer more competively priced gaming solutions (tower not all in one)
    The imac is a perfectly acceptable casual gamer solution as well as a fine machine for the casual user, but as you have pointed out to really go after the hardcore gamers Apple would have to sacrifice on some levels to lure those people from PC's and with consoles already drawing heavily away from the PC market there is really no point to throwing their hat in that ring.
    Apples marketing push recently has been directed towards the consumer market and will continue to go that way because that is where the majority of the money is and with more of the hardcore pc users going towards consoles and with more casual users becoming frustrated with windows we might see a maket increase, but who knows.

    I am just happy to be able to play BF 1942 and edit my movies and pictures on the best computer in the world. If I have to wait for years to play HL 2 I will and I won't be terribly dissappointed if I never play it on a mac. Some developer will see a market for a game similar to it in the mac arena and chances are we will see omething comprable

    :)
     
  17. applekid macrumors 68020

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    #17
    The hardware you are naming are not completely just for gaming. A graphics card is definitely something pro users will need (i.e.: video editing, graphics, page layouts, etc.). Fast RAM and HD are not only for gamers and pros.

    If anything, I find games to be pushing computer technology the wrong way, but that's just my opinion.

    Anyways, I'm not pushing that whole 8-million-copies-so-8-million-gamers reason around currently since I don't see anymore hard facts I can give, and the reasons against it aren't completely sound either. I may be wrong about the number, but I don't think 8 million is too far, considering how many low-end machines people played Half Life on. But, as you said, what we're getting into is pretty much opinion, especially since I doubt anybody can say for sure how many gamers are out there. So, I'll just let it go. :)
     
  18. Dr. Dastardly macrumors 65816

    Dr. Dastardly

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    #18
    Some would say (me included) that it probably would be a great game if we could play it. This is the stupidist, buggiest, and flat out wort installation of software I have ever come across. And I have installed ALOT of software. Corrupted files, memory read errors, steam network crashes, the works. I know people were it works fine. I also know people where it just bombs over and over again. And beleive me I have gone from just a simple reinstall to returning my computer to the factory settings! It is a complete and absolute joke.

    This isn't a game, its a beta test! :mad: :eek:
     
  19. Phat_Pat macrumors 68000

    Phat_Pat

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    #19
    wasn't the problem they couldn't port it was because of havock?

    if this is true then wouldn't halo 2 be in jeopardy too because it is also powered by havock? we may never get either aaaaaahhhh :(
     
  20. benpatient macrumors 68000

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    #20
    i had a flawless experience from start to finish. a beta test it isn't.
     
  21. applekid macrumors 68020

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    #21
    What are your specs and settings?

    I'm surprised Steam has gone well for you. My friend still has moments where Steam will take 5-10 minutes verifying.

    However, I know there's some computers that suffered from stuttering sound, but Valve has acknowledged the problem and is about to patch it, just as I suspected. As far as performance goes, that's all there's to complain about.
     
  22. ZildjianKX macrumors 68000

    ZildjianKX

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    #22
    To all the whiners, just wait a year and buy an Xbox 2 with HL2. Both will be available next December for sure... and will look a lot better than any mac port ever could. It's public that HL2 is in the works for the Xbox and that Xbox 2 will be out next year... but they haven't mentioned if HL2 will be on xbox 1 or 2... and most people (myself included) believe it will be on Xbox 2.
     
  23. Barham macrumors regular

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    Feb 5, 2004
    #23
    Actually Valve has stated publicly that it is in development for Xbox, and not for Xbox 2. That's also a pretty optimistic (though not totally unrealistic) release date for Xbox 2.

    -Hasta
     
  24. Ninja_Turtle macrumors 6502

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    #24
    party

    see...i knew this along time ago....every popular game thats released never or gets terribly ported to the mac...i mean come on people...macs arent for games, get over it...theyve never been and will never be...face the facts...sorry to say that, but its the truth...
     
  25. Capt Underpants macrumors 68030

    Capt Underpants

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    #25
    Next Christmas is definitely realistic. Heck, rumors are the the xbox will be showed off at CES in January '05. And do you have a link to where valve has said that? It seems like the xbox 2 would be better suited for HL2, hardware wise.
     

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