No more SaveAs?!?!?!

Discussion in 'Mac OS X Lion (10.7)' started by 2002cbr600f4i, Jul 31, 2011.

  1. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    #1
    So I was trying to do some stuff in Automator yesterday and realized that I wanted to change from saving the current workflow from a workflow to an application... In snow leopard and before, I'd just do a Save As and save the file as the different type...

    Nope! In lion there is no Save As option!!!! Once you save the file the first time, the only option you have is Save as version, which doesn't let you change the type or location or anything!!!

    Frickin brilliant!!! Argh!!! I had to remake my Automator workflows like 5 times to get things the way I wanted them...

    Give us back SaveAs!!!!!!
     
  2. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    #2
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    Calm down. The duplicate function in Lion is essentially the same as save as in Snow Leopard.
     
  3. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    #3
    I love how people whine, cry and bash before asking questions. It could have easily been stated. "Hey I'm trying to Save As in Automator under Lion and it's not there. Did they change the way it works?' It's shorter and sounds a lot less childish.
     
  4. macrumors 6502a

    #4
    Yes, the new standard way of doing things is to use save as your first opportunity to save a document and duplicate for subsequent "save as" operations. I've been playing with revert in Text Edit this afternoon....... Have Apple starting using their journaled file system in a vaguely journaled manner? Lots to get used to in Lion IMHO.
     
  5. thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    #5
    Ok, cool...

    BUT, SERIOUSLY??? They have to change the name of a STANDARD use paradigm that has been in play for, what, 30 years now??? REALLY???

    It's exactly for crazy changes like this that I gave up on Windows and went to Mac because of it's consistency, and here we go, changing stuff that's been the norm and expected for years...
     
  6. macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009
    #6
    And those darn kids and their loud music too, huh? And what is this Facebook? And these ridiculous things called... airplanes??

    If you don't want to change then stick with snow leopard. Otherwise, shut up and adapt like you have your entire life.
     
  7. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    #7
    If we didn't have massive shifts in computers we would still be using DOS and other archaic operating systems.

    You may be uncomfortable now, but you will get use to it and see that it makes more sense down the road :D
     
  8. macrumors 68000

    paulsalter

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2008
    Location:
    UK
    #8
    Sadly this is one of those features Apple has decided to do away with

    Why have the easy ability to save as on a file when you can click twice as many options to duplicate it

    at least some apps still work the sensible way
     
  9. macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Location:
    Canada
    #9
    And I love how people like you no matter how valid the criticism of the new "feature" will always put your two cents in telling the OP to suck it up and bend over and smile when Apple fsck's them..
     
  10. macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2010
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale
    #10
    It does seem stupid to change a function just for change sakes...or is duplicate better than save as?
     
  11. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Location:
    Miami, Florida
    #11
    Yes, but you have to allow that people get frustrated when something interrupts workflow, kind of like what Heidegger describes in Being and Time when things break down.
     
  12. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    #12
    If Apple had just simply renamed the feature that was "Save As..." to "Duplicate" then I doubt this conversation would be taking place. The problem (a very disturbing problem...but I do like some of the other things about Lion, so I'm stuck with it nevertheless) is that Lion automatically saves any and every operation made to a file, without your knowledge or consent. For an application like Preview and lossy-compressed files like JPGs--browsing through photos and rotating a few while looking at them will automatically save the changes (lowering the quality by recompressing them); if you want the original file back, you are forced to fishing for it through the little 3D time machine UI. So instead of you, the user, actively triggering a save on the computer, you the user must spend time trying to prevent the computer from automatically saving.

    If it isn't broken, then why fix it--and why replace it with a more complex method that feels backasswards?
     
  13. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    #13
    yeah its pretty ridiculous how apple just changed this standard at a whim, makes me appreciate windows all the more
     
  14. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Location:
    Northeast United States
  15. macrumors 68000

    paulsalter

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2008
    Location:
    UK
    #15
    I am holding out on this one for now, but might switch

    From what I have read, using the new features can be made optional in apps, there is already a graphic converter app that allows you to chose the new or old method for saving

    If word has it as an option (when MS get around to adding the feature), I will switch to Office, if office only allows the new features I will stick with iWork
     
  16. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Location:
    Northeast United States
    #16
    Everything works the way regular Word works.
     
  17. Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #17
    That's one of the features that really staggers the imagination. Why did apple even think that it was a good idea to remove "Save As"

    Sure there's work arounds, but they're more cumbersome. OSX has been an OS that allowed me to work the way I wanted to work, and doing it efficient. With the loss of "Save As" it creates a more of a headache then anything
     
  18. macrumors 68030

    baryon

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    #18
    Yes, now, instead of knowing that all applications have "Save As", you now have to be aware that some have "Save As", some have "Duplicate" and others have "Save Version". They all do the same things but are called differently, have different shortcuts and even behave slightly differently. It's a cool new trendy and user-friendly way to make your life just a little bit worse.

    And 10.8 introduces the new "Super Monkey Spider" function. It replaces the "File" menu and it's basically the same thing, but called differently. Oh, we forgot to say, it will only change in a few applications, others will still use "File", and others will adopt "Spider Duck Monkey". The difference between them is that they're all the same, especially the third one.
     
  19. macrumors Pentium

    KnightWRX

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    #19
    Is there really a need for Save As with Duplicate and Versions though ? I don't get why the OP couldn't make do with those and actually restarted his whole work 5 times... why not just jump to a previous version...
     
  20. Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #20
    Yes, there is a need. Duplicate and versions do not work as easily as "Save As"

    If there was just an easier way, we wouldn't be seeing these types of threads regarding save as.
     
  21. macrumors Pentium

    KnightWRX

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    #21
    Save As litters the file system with different versions of the same document. Versions stores it in a "meta database" (I'm betting some NetApp technology is at use here, allocating new blocks instead of overwriting existing blocks) and Duplicate lets you litter your filesystem too if that is what you liked doing...

    I played around with Textedit after reading this thread and posting, seems to work pretty good actually. Duplicate lets you have more than 1 version tree for a same document and versions lets you go back in time to a "snapshot", same as one created with Save As.

    New features require adaptation. Same with Mission Control. As a big spaces user, I find it has improved my workflow a lot. I never liked the old Expose at all, a big jumble of windows and I would always organize my workflow around spaces (1 space, 1 application) and find Mission Control and Application Expose are quite a good way to work with it.

    Really liking Lion, and the gestures to control it all will make me buy a magic trackpad to replace my Razer mouse.
     
  22. Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #22
    What you consider litter, I consider valued documents that I use. Clearly Save As has a use for many of us.
     
  23. macrumors 68030

    baryon

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    #23
    No it doesn't. First of all, it's just text. Second, I have to change my CV for each new job I apply for. I have 10 kinds of CVs, but one is not better than the other. There is no "current version" and they're all important, since I cannot know what my next job will be like, and which CV I will need to send them out of the 10 versions. I don't want to have to go back into the Versions Time Machine thing, to try to figure out which version was the one that I'm looking for. I want the 10 CVs to be in one folder, separate, and separately editable. Making a single CV and turning it into 10 slightly different versions has become very annoying and difficult with Lion.

    Not to mention the number of times I open a document, remove something from it so that it fits on a single page, print it, and then I want to QUIT WITHOUT saving since I need that line in the future. I DON'T want to save a version where I removed that line, I just wanted to quickly print it and then forget about it. But no, Versions remembers it, and better still, it thinks it's the "current version". If, say, 3 weeks later you open the file, having completely forgotten that last time you removed a line that you actually need, you'll be working with a document that's missing that line. Sure, you can go back in time and get it back, but what if you don't even remember that you removed that line, thus you don't go looking for it in the first place?

    I hate it when computers think for me and try to figure out what I want without asking me. I want to be able to quit and press either "Save" or "Don't Save" each time I work on something. What if I type some stuff that I end up not liking? I need to go through this stupid procedure of getting back the version before. Before I could just quit and "Don't Save".
     
  24. macrumors 601

    talmy

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Location:
    Oregon
    #24
    The change from SaveAs to Duplicate is basically a change in paradigm from application-centric to document-centric. Autosave and resume are also part of the document-centric thinking. Instead of a single document that gets modified and "saved as" different documents, you now make as many duplicates of the document as you need and then edit each of them. When you close or first save one of the duplicates it will ask for the document name. The original is basically a template and is not changed (in fact Lion will protect older documents against changing). If you do go ahead and change it and want to go back, you can revert to last opened or bring up the full Versions interface.

    This is not a new way of doing things. Aperture and iPhoto have done this as long as I can remember, as does iMovie. I've used programs with autosave since the 1980s. It tends to be more resource intensive, but modern computers have lots of CPU power, RAM, and disk capacity, so we might as well be using it to our advantage.

    If Apple can move everything to document-centric then the consistency across applications will be a great boon to ease of use.
     
  25. WSR
    macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    #25
    I agree.
    In trying to make things easier for those that have problems managing files, they've made it harder on the rest.

    "Save As..." and "Do You Want to Save?" NEEDS to return!
     

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