No President has ever done more for human rights than I have.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by SPG, Jan 17, 2004.

  1. SPG macrumors 65816

    SPG

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    #1
    Now who do you think said that?
    http://www.newyorker.com/press/content/

    Context:
    http://billmon.org/archives/000971.html
     
  2. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #2
    ****ing delusional, bush is.

    i'm now back on my 'bush is a sociopath' kick.
     
  3. yamabushi macrumors 65816

    yamabushi

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    #3
    Hunh? I can't see how he would really believe this.:confused:
     
  4. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #4
    which? the alleged quote? or the sociopath part? if the former, it was in the New Yorker...
     
  5. wwworry macrumors regular

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  6. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #6
    As near as I can tell, the Congress and the Administration all believe that the Patriot Act is a Good Thing. They also believe the present system of "airport security" is not only proper, but we're really, really safer without our fingernail clippers.

    I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that about all Dubya was thinking of is how Iraq will become a Truly Wonderful Place To Be, and in that context he's feeling all warm and snuggly about being a Good Guy.

    Scary.

    'Rat
     
  7. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #7
    a couple more beers and we'll be hearing "human rights has such a pretty face"
     
  8. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #8
    'Rat, I think you're right. Trouble is he has all these people around him puffing up his "High Noon" - Will Kane fantasy of his role in the world he is starting to believe it. Next thing you know he start really believing he's from Texas.
     
  9. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #9
    Or got elected.

    Or has a mandate.

    Or actually runs the show.
     
  10. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #10
    While there are exceptions, maybe, any president is pretty much at the mercy of his advisors. Witness Carter and Bert Lance and the horrible effects on the economy from policy decisions.

    That's why, to me, it's almost more important to consider who's coming into power WITH a presidential candidate than the particular candidate, his or her ownself. Same for governor, for that matter.

    I'm more familiar with this at the state level, insofar as any personal experience. For instance, I knew Ann Richards long before she became governor. Canoed a few river trips, BSed over a few beers; not close, but certainly acquainted. I also knew her as County Commissioner in my precinct. Ann would have been a much more effective governor, and probably could have beaten Dubya, had she not had the political debts from getting elected to her first term. She pretty much was forced to bring on board some real idiots, from a "political philosophy in Texas" standpoint.

    'Rat
     
  11. SPG thread starter macrumors 65816

    SPG

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    #11
    You could argue that everyone is then a product of their surroundings as well, but there is still a person inside of that influence.
    I've noticed that as many of the policies that come out of this administration are becoming harder and harder to defend in the light of reason and honesty, that many of the Bush supporters have started to make negative comments about the staff to try to maintain their belief in "the man".
    I am not so charitable to think that what is going on is solely the effect of advisors and cabinet members. If it is than this man has no business being president.
     
  12. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #12
    "I am not so charitable to think that what is going on is solely the effect of advisors and cabinet members."

    No argument. Still, it's a package deal, El Prez and his advisors. Sure, there's a predisposition to listen to the advisors' views, which is why they were selected in the first place. I just don't see various schemes springing fullblown from one man's brain...

    'Rat
     
  13. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #13
    Presidential advisors aren't born to the job, they are appointed by the President, so if he's surrounded with controlling/manipulative/dishonest advisors, that's his doing and nobody else's. Further, each and every president has their own management style -- some are far more engaged in policy-making then others. According to O'Neill at least, this president chooses to be disengaged.
     
  14. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #14
    an early entry for understatement of the year.

    good god, the man doesn't even read newspapers! many people (o'neill and ivins, off the top of my head) have described him as man lacking curiosity. for me, that's a certain kind of intellectual laziness that can't be tolerated in a leadership position.
     
  15. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #15
    Well, if Paul O'Neill is to be believed -- and personally, I do. On that front, I found this little piece in my daily paper this morning. I'm always amused by the use of the word "disappointing" to describe somebody who makes inconvenient or embarrassing statements, because it sounds so much like the disapproving parent who can't say why a child should not have said or done something, but would rather they hadn't just the same.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/whitehouse/la-na-oneill19jan19,1,7210402.story

    So little Paulie was a bad boy.
     
  16. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #16
    well that's a tad creepy.
     
  17. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #17
    That part about how he 'ended his career' sounds rather ominous. I thought lots of these type of people went on the even more lucrative private sector jobs, or the became lobbyists.
     
  18. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #18
    This White House has made if very clear that they punish those that don't do as they are told. It all is very creepy. How many remember Nixon's enemies list?
     
  19. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #19
    Well enough to recall Dan Schorr who worked for CBS news at the time (IRRC) breaking the story by reading the list of Nixon enemies. He hadn't reviewed the list before he was called upon to read it live on the air, so he didn't realize until that very moment that it included his own name, which he read without missing a beat. Beware the blowing of a chill wind.
     
  20. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #20
    Ok, here is a political trivia quiz for today. Which of the Democratic candidates was on Nixon's enemies list and why did he make it?
     
  21. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #21
    John Kerry for his anti-war activities during Vietnam? My best guess since I'm not old enough to remember firsthand. ;)
     
  22. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #22
    "Hindsight's 20/20", and it's looking to me like Dubya asked, "Daddy, who do you reckon would be good in the Cabinet?" And Daddy said...

    Anyhow, while I don't seem to have clearly stated what I was thinking,earlier, this comment from an above post seems illustrative: "O'Neill describes Vice President Dick Cheney as a leader of a "praetorian guard" around the president, cutting him off from dissenting opinions."

    And, of course, an absence of dissent or opposition is what leads to dat ol' debbil, unintended consequences.

    'Rat
     
  23. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #23
    i'm not going to cut bush any slack because his chosen-by-him or chosen-for-him advisors may have misadvised.

    if bush was a real leader, heads would have rolled and still be rolling for any number of things.

    i'm no fan of nixon, but didn't he go out to talk to protesters in front of the WH? are protesters even allowed there anymore?
     
  24. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #24
    Well, Paul O'Neil did get fired... ;)

    But I doubt that's what you were hoping for.
     
  25. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #25
    None, on the "top twenty" hit list, AFAIK. Nearly every prominent Democrat at the time was on the extended political enemies list, though -- including Kennedy, Mondale and McGovern.
     

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