Northern California Judge Gives Green Light to Monopolizatio...

Discussion in 'MacBytes.com News Discussion' started by MacBytes, Feb 8, 2006.

  1. macrumors bot

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    #1

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    Category: News and Press Releases
    Link: Northern California Judge Gives Green Light to Monopolization Suit Against Apple
    Description:: Judge James Ware, of the U.S. District Court of Northern California, has found the plaintiff, Thomas Slattery, as having "met all requirements for asserting [Apple's iTunes + iPod] tying claim... noting that the complaint alleges Apple has an 80 percent share of the market for legal digital music files and more than 90 percent of the market for portable hard-drive digital music players." Moreover, Judge Ware has given the green light to Slattery to proceed with his monopolization claim under the federal Sherman Antitrust Act.

    Posted on MacBytes.com
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  2. macrumors 68040

    dornoforpyros

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    #2
    I don't understand the US legal system at all
     
  3. Moderator

    Nermal

    Staff Member

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    #3
    Good on them, hopefully we'll see more competition and therefore lower prices :)
     
  4. macrumors G3

    QCassidy352

    Joined:
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    Location:
    San Francisco
    #4
    this is so stupid. Monopoly is bad when a company (e.g. Microsoft) exerts unfair pressure on competitors and basically dominates the market not due to having better products but due to manipulating the supply, slashing profits below profitable levels, etc.

    if other companies can't compete not because of unfair business practices but because their products and business models SUCK then monopoly is a good thing. Apple is not doing anything that would prevent another mp3 player or music service from breaking in if it was any good - i mean they're going against Sony, Google, Napster, and other giants of the tech industry, not exactly people you can push around. The reason they aren't breaking apple's grip on the market is because their goods aren't as good. That's (real) capitalism.
     
  5. macrumors member

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  6. macrumors 68040

    California

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2004
    #6
    Hey. What are you talking about "lower prices?"

    On what?

    99 cent songs?

    69 USD iPods? Your statement is nuts.

    Slattery WORKED FOR MICROSOFT AS A LAWYER. THIS IS A SET UP. THE JUDGE MUST BE ON THE M$ TAKE.
     
  7. Moderator

    Nermal

    Staff Member

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    #7
    Yep, lower prices. I have to pay $26.95 for a CD regardless of whether I want all the songs or not. If I had a WMA-based player, I'd be able to buy just the tracks I want for $1.69 each. But since I have an iPod, I'm forced to buy the entire CD since Apple are refusing to add WMA support, and are also refusing to license out Fairplay. On the other hand, if the system was "opened", then I'd be able to get just the songs I want, at a better price.
     
  8. macrumors 6502a

    chewbaccapits

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2001
    Location:
    Torrance, Californizzel
    #8
    Why not buy your crappy WMA songs and convert them into mp3s? And BTW, you have to pay 26 dollars for a CD? A. what band is worth 26 dollars a cd and B. no one is forcing you to buy anything.....You must have known what format was played on the iPod or else you did not do your DD.....Also, isn't this the same as buying a PS2 system and then complaining it cannot run your future purchases of XBOX games...This lawsuit is ass...
     
  9. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    #9
    If you look at "Location:" you'll notice this guy/gal is from New Zealand.
    1 NZD = 0.68 USD
    26 NZD = 17.64 USD
    Not the whole world calculates with US dollars...
     
  10. macrumors 68000

    Joined:
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    afk
    #10
    I thought this is the purpose of DRM? to prevent others from playing on unauthorised equipments? If Apple own the production of the iPod and the iTunes store, why can't they create a unique synergy between these 2?
     
  11. macrumors G3

    bigandy

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    Location:
    Murka
    #11
    a bunch of american students came to my university here in scotland, the other day, for the semester, and asked why our currency, the pound, wasn't called dollars, like in england.

    :eek:

    people should remember that thinking before they speak is not a bad idea! ;)
     
  12. macrumors G5

    gnasher729

    Joined:
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    #12
    A good reason to _always_ include the country when you use dollars. It avoids confusion.
     
  13. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    May 13, 2002
    #13
    I'd really like to know what CD this is. I buy a lot of music from the iTMS, and I've never run into a CD that required me to buy the whole thing. Besides, I'm pretty sure "they" stated a while back that this was not Apple's choice, but the choice of the artist's label.

    As an aside, no one is *forcing* you to do anything. The iTMS is only one of many ways to acquire music. You could always wait for a local store to put the CD on sale and buy it for cheaper than the current price, for example.
     
  14. macrumors G5

    gnasher729

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    #14
    Having a monopoly is in itself not bad and not illegal. Using a monopoly to get unfair advantages and limit competition in other areas is illegal.

    However, Apple doesn't have a monopoly at all. Not only are there plenty of competitors, these competitors are also highly successful (if I gave you sales statistics about portable music players with Apple players not mentioned anywhere, you would see that other players actually have considerable growth, just not anywhere near Apple's growth).

    Most important, the customer has unlimited choice of what to buy. If you want to listen to Britney Spears on a portable music player, you are absolutely free to buy an iPod and a CD and download the CD to the iPod, or buy a Creative player and a CD and download the CD to the Zen, or buy an iPod and download the song from iTunes Music Store, or buy a Creative player and download the song from Napster. You are absolutely free to choose. The fact that iPod and iTMS sell more doesn't affect you in any way if you choose to use different products.

    Now if Apple told a music company that they can't sell songs on iTMS if they sell them on Napster, or if Microsoft told you that Office stops working if you connect an iPod to your computer instead of a Microsoft approved music player, _that_ would be a case of monopoly abuse. They both don't do that.
     
  15. macrumors 65816

    Photorun

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    Location:
    NYC
    #15
    Um, okay, so Apple has a monopoly because nobody has come out with a better player or music system though there has been actually a LOT of competition but Microsoft has used unethical contracts with peecee manufactures and strongarm tactics in it's OS but it's NOT a monopoly.

    Say what?!?
     
  16. macrumors 65816

    Photorun

    Joined:
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    Location:
    NYC
    #16
    Dude, go get a Dull and a Dull DJ, go through Rhapsody or Napster and stop yer freakin' whining! You have options, if you don't like them that's you're effin' problem.
     
  17. macrumors 601

    Yvan256

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Canada
    #17
    Not, but there's quite a lot of countries that uses "$"...

    Also, I don't get his arguments... The same could be said of people without ANY MP3 player. They're "forced" to buy complete CDs just like him... :confused:
     
  18. macrumors 601

    Yvan256

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    Canada
    #18
    "Welcome to the USA, where crooks win and good guys lose."? :confused:
     
  19. macrumors 6502a

    #19
    This what the complaints are about. Apple has a near monopoly in the digital music player market. They use this to prevent competition in the online music sales market.

    At the risk of duplicating my post from the other thread, swap iPod for Windows and iTMS for office suite or media player.

    If MS changed Windows every time someone tried to release a competitor to MS Office or Window's Media Player so that those products broke or became otherwise unusable, this would likely be deemed an abuse of their (near) monopoly in the OS market.

    Where MS is not a major player, say in video editing software, they do not break competing products.

    Apple do not sell CDs, it is not a market in which they are competing and the differences between online and CD music have been made many times.

    They do have an online music store, offering songs for the iPod. When a competitor came along (Real) who allowed people to buy online from another store and playback on their iPod, they used their control over the iPod to stamp it out.

    Given variations, such as the size of the iPod market share and technologies such as DRM, this is far from clear cut but subjectively Apple have shown a willingness to utilise the dominance of their music player to cut out competition in another area.
     
  20. macrumors 603

    SiliconAddict

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    Chicago, IL
    #20

    :eek: *sighs* On behalf of the United States of America, I apologize for their stupidity. Morons. :rolleyes:
     
  21. macrumors 603

    SiliconAddict

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    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    #21

    That pretty much sums it up doesn't it?

    The DJ has been discontinued. The smaller ditty is till available. But the point stands.
     
  22. macrumors 601

    Yvan256

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Location:
    Canada
    #22
    Except that Real didn't "compete", they hacked their way in.

    Do you think Sony wouldn't react if Microsoft were to include a PS1 and PS2 emulator in the Xbox360?
     
  23. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2003
    Location:
    SC
    #23
    I swear, consumers are getting far too whiney and for some reason feel they are entitled to everything they want.

    What ever happened to weighing the pros and cons of a product and making a decision based on that? Want an MP3 player...well the iPod looks the best and is easy to use, but you can only use iTunes and music stores without DRM. The Creative doesn't look as good, but there are at least 4 stores I can use, and I can even rent music if I want. This is how a consumer should function. Plenty of options available, and plenty of competition.

    But nooooo...I want an iPod despite its limitations and I will sue Apple to force them to make the iPod the way I want it. Blpppppppp (big rasberry).

    Craziness.
     
  24. macrumors 603

    SiliconAddict

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2003
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    #24
    This is going to be an easy case by the way.
    Exhibit A.... www.musicmatch.com
    Exhibit B.... www.urge.com
    Exhibit C.... www.napster.com
    Exhibit D.... www.playsforsure.com
    Exhibit E....www.walmart.com/music_downloads/introToServices.do
    Exhibit F.... Zen Micro Photo
    Exhibit G....Gmini XS100
    Exhibit H....Zen Namo
    Exhibit I....Dell Ditty
    Exhibit J....Gateway Photo Jukebox
    Exhibit K....iRiver T30

    Just flood the courtroom with examples. There is nothing wrong with a monopoly. (Even if Apple had one which they clearly do not.) Its what you DO with a monopoly is when the government gets involved. This is clearly a dumb*** judge who doesn't know an iPod from a banana or a music store from a porn site.

    People have a choice. They just aren't happy with the choice Apple has offered them. Holy [bleep] If that is a crime then I want to sue Toyota for not integrating an iPod dock into their Prius. Its the most popular selling hybrid electric. Even though there are others that have this feature I want it in the Prius so I'm going to sue them.
    Idiots. :mad:
     
  25. macrumors 6502a

    #25
    Sorry, I don't quite understand the relevance. Are you saying that Apple should be allowed to use the dominance of the iPod to block competition to iTMS? Is iTMS not good enough to stand out amongst other online stores?

    Historically, music and playback device have been distinct. There have been a number of different markets. This is how a cons^H^H^H store should function. Plenty of options available, and plenty of competition.
    out competitors in the music store market.
     

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