Not really impressed with Jaguar. Info inside.

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by jwtillema, Aug 18, 2002.

  1. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    #1
    I just got back from the Apple Store in SD. They had the NEW G4s on display running at 2X1GHz with Jaguar. It honestly doesn't feel any faster than the megahertz differnce between 1X1GHz and my 733 MHz G4. Application loading seems faster, however, window resizing in IE is still painfully slow. Scrolling through a web page by dragging the scroll bar does feel faster and smoother, but it ain't blistering by any means. Scrolling through a web page on my machine in OS 9 is lightspeed compared to Jaguar on the new hardware. The guy that worked there said it was microsoft's fault because it doesn't take advantage of Quartz, and that I should try omniweb. I honestly don't understand how I can drag the scroll bar back and forth on a DV video stream at high res and have no lag whatsoever and not be able to do the same with a web page. It makes no friggin sense.

    Another thing that I though was weird was that a lot of the new options that thinksecret showed in the system prefs were not there.

    I did like the new Preview app. Some of the additions were really cool. The new address book is nicer, as well. The interface is a little prettier, IMHO, however I do have a gripe. Although the shadow under the arrow is cool, and I don't have a problem with it at all, in IE for example, when you put the cursor over a link and it changes to a hand, the shading disappears. It's just inconsistent, and I think that goes against good GUI design. Also, the menus are a little more opaque. I like the older ones a little better, but that's totally subjective. I didn't use iChat, so I won't comment on that. Sherlock is definitely cool. In fact, it is the only reason I have to upgrade to Jaguar, but I can just get Watson. I got movie showtimes for the theater in the same mall faster than it would've taken me to look out the window.

    Bottom line: I have been drooling over Jaguar's new features since they first leaked into the rumor sites, but I seriously see no reason to upgrade that is worth Apple's asking price. The cost to benefit ratio is just too high.
     
  2. macrumors 68020

    sparkleytone

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2001
    Location:
    Greensboro, NC
    #2
    as far as the IE thing, the man told you the problem. therefore theres no point in complaining abou tit. use omniweb, use chimera, use mozilla, use LYNX, get rid of IE.

    as far as the sysprefs, we all knew that would change as there were WAY too many preferences and it made the panel too crowded. They DID change shortly before the expo, if you had been watching.
     
  3. macrumors 65816

    peterjhill

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    #3
    From:
    http://www.apple.com/powermac/processor.html

    You will see that no microsoft products are optimized to take advantage of both processors.
    Apps that fly
    Plenty of vendors have tuned their applications to be specifically aware of dual processors:
    Absoft Pro Fortran
    Adobe After Effects
    Adobe Illustrator
    Adobe GoLive
    Adobe Photoshop
    Adobe Premier
    Alias|Wavefront Maya
    Apple DVD Studio Pro
    Apple Final Cut Pro
    Apple iDVD 2, iMovie 2, iTunes 2
    Apple Mac OS X
    Apple QuickTime
    Apple WebObjects
    Avid Media Composer
    Connectix VirtualPC
    Deneba Canvas
    Digital Origins EditDV
    Discreet Logic Combustion
    Discreet Logic Cleaner
    Emagic Logic Audio
    FileMaker Pro
    Heuris MPEG Power Probe
    Id Software Quake
    Macromedia Dreamweaver
    Macromedia Freehand
    Macromedia Fireworks
    Macromedia Flash
    Maxon Cinema 4D
    Media 100 CineStream
    Metrowerks CodeWarrior
    MOTU Digital Performer
    Netscape Navigator
    NewTek LightWave 3D
    Propellerhead Reason
    Sorenson Video Codec
    Toon Boom Studio
    Wolfram Mathematica
     
  4. thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    #4
    Don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining. I'm merely stating my observations. As for other browsers, I've tried them all, including ones you failed to list. They all suck as far as window resizing and scrolling.
     
  5. macrumors 601

    Chaszmyr

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2002
    #5
    All of the OSX browsers suck as far as i am concerned. Especially when it comes to support for high-end java and the like. In my opinion its the worst thing about OSX... i suppose its just a matter of time before we get an "iBrowser" "iWeb" "iSurfer" or whatever apple ends up calling it.
     
  6. macrumors 65816

    peterjhill

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    #6
    That is interesting that you don't like Java on the Mac. There are some Java based web apps that I need to run at work, and I am amazed at how well they work and look. I am quite happy with OS X's Java support. I am sorry that you are not having a good java experience. Do you know what is really funny, try using Java on a Solaris box. It is awful! and Sun invented the stuff (or someone who works for Sun)
     
  7. macrumors 68030

    mnkeybsness

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2001
    Location:
    Moneyapolis, Minnesota
  8. macrumors 68020

    sparkleytone

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2001
    Location:
    Greensboro, NC
    #8
    i think you gave an extra word to that comment. limewire is java...and it is butt-crap. thats it, because limewire sucks.
     
  9. macrumors 68000

    tjwett

    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NYC
    #9
    the version of Jaguar that is in the Apple stores is still a beat version. Granted, a late build and probably pretty close to the final but still a beta. I wouldn't expect the "real thing" to be much faster but i've been told that the System Prefs all will be there. and i thought that IE 5.2 is able to use Quartz? anyway, i'll probably end up getting Jag (edu discount) just to stay current.
     
  10. job
    macrumors 68040

    job

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2002
    Location:
    in transit
    #10
    I thought that the new towers were shipping with 10.2 final....
     
  11. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    #11
    Maybe Pinot is The One? It's sad how we always wait ages for something like good OS or good machine..
     
  12. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2002
    Location:
    Brighton, England
    #12
    Well, if the do I hope they use an "I" for the icon rather than an "e"

    "How do I get on the internet?"

    "Well, click on that 'e' logo- 'e' stands for internet""

    Doh!
     
  13. macrumors 603

    nuckinfutz

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2002
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    #13
    Go read some other sites

    I'm reading just the opposite in regards to speed. I read a report from a user with a g4 450 and he was happy with the performance.

    Unfortunately we're not hearing enough about the install to make an informed decision. I've read that doing a Clean Install is a must for optimum speed.

    Also sometimes I hear people say Jaguar isn't worth $129 to them but they never seem to mention what exactly they do with their computer. Jaguar is not a must have upgrade if all you do is play games or surf the web but if you

    Have printing issues then CUPS might help.
    Audio guys/girls need the Core Audio updates.
    Networking people like the LDAP support and other things.
    You aren't even seeing the potential speed of apps...once they've been recompiled with GCC 3.1 speed differences may be more visible.

    yadda yadda yadda. In short I believe anyone who relies on their computer needs jaguar.
     
  14. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Location:
    CA
    #14
    Java support is good in Mac OS X

    I am very happy with the Java support on Mac. its really cool. Did u ever hear of Eclipse project? IBM build Websphere Application Developer Studio(WSAD) based on that.. At work I am using WSAD, and i import the project without any problem in Eclipse once i am at home ( thanks to iPod for transfering files).. The cool thing about Java is that it inherits Aqua look & feel once ur in Mac OS X, what a relief. I am tired of windows look and feel ..

    Try running Sun's java Swing Demo..it looks so much better in OS X than on any other Java Look & feel ( Motif, Win etc themes).. I didnt use Solaris much.. My work involves mainly with Win & AIX..typical IBM setup ..i hardly require Win if IBM allows me to use my powerbook :)
     
  15. macrumors 68000

    tjwett

    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NYC
    #15
    ooh, you may be right. last time i was in the Apple SoHo store they were running betas but they didn't have the new PMs there yet either. Damn, hey jwtillema, did you happen to notice the Core MIDI and Audio Preferences? these are the ones i'm waiting for myself.
     
  16. macrumors 604

    scem0

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    back in NYC!
    #16
    I bet they end up calling the browser 'iSurf' or maybe, if SJ goes insane, iInternet or iNternet.
     
  17. Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    Gone but not forgotten.
    #17
    Everything I've read says that all of the major browsers still have display speed problems, even in 10.2. It could be that they've tried Mac OS 9.x optimizations which tend to be degradations on Mac OS X.
     
  18. macrumors 603

    nuckinfutz

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2002
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    #18
    Refresh rates

    I've also heard from a reputable source that OS X Browsers tend to refresh their contents much faster than the typical Browser on windows. This leads to sluggish performance. I believe the Browser Devs can slow this down. Wish I knew more.


    TJWETT have you checked out the CoreAudio mailing list here?

    http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/coreaudio-api

    Most of this stuff is over my head but from what i've gathered just reading the Web Archives is that CoreAudio, Midi and Audio Units are mature of 10.2. Plus the I/O Kit should be ready so we should now start seeing Audio Apps for OS X come at a steady rate. Keep your eyes on AudioUnits as well. They look like the might become the "preferred" plugin for OSX only apps. They seem to contain most of what VST does and maybe a little more.
     
  19. thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    #19
    tjwett,

    Yes, they were there. Two thumbs up for you, I guess.
     
  20. macrumors 68000

    tjwett

    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NYC
    #20
    thanks. i'm officially psyched!
     
  21. macrumors 68000

    tjwett

    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NYC
    #21
    Re: Refresh rates

    thanks for the link. yeah, this whole Audio Units thing is still a kind of mystery. First of all, couldn't they have come up with a better name? aside from the name i'm excited to see how they will work. Logic for OSX should be here any day now. as will everything else. Apple made them all wait until 10.2.. as long as Logic has Audio Units support(man i hate saying it! it's AU from now on)i'll be happy since that's my main work area. Logic, Reason, Ableton Live, those should keep me busy in OS X until Native Instruments gets in gear with some OsX apps.
     
  22. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2002
    Location:
    Big Shoulders
    #22
    Anybody tried Nutscrape 6.2 for OS X? The DHTML and Java Script support is wonderful, but it takes SOOOOOOOOOO LOOOOOOOOONG to load, it's just a miserable, terrible experience. In all honesty, it takes about 20 seconds to load on my TiBook. There's simply no excuse for that.

    ...somebody should send them hate mail...if they felt so inclined. ;)
     
  23. macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Location:
    SFBA
    #23
    how do get get those apps to work? i took a programming class where our editor was java based...could never get it to work on my mac. worked on their solaris boxes, even worked (great!) on my PC, but never worked on my mac....dunno
     
  24. macrumors 65816

    peterjhill

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    #24
    I run all the apps throught IE5/Mac. Let's see, I use
    Stelltor/Oracle Corporate Time
    NetEnforcer
    Remedy
    and Packeteer.

    The 2nd and 3rd are hardware with java based config tools. The first is an Enterprise Calendar/scheduling software, and the third is a trouble ticket database. Have you tried using the Project Builder App in the Mac OS X developer tools? It can be used as and IDE for pure java programs. Java stands next to Cocoa on Mac OS X, in that it takes full advantage of the OS.
     

Share This Page