NY Times Poll Finds Bush Well Ahead

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by numediaman, Mar 16, 2004.

  1. numediaman macrumors 6502a

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    #1
    The most depressing poll numbers I've read yet: Bush ahead of Kerry, even with Edwards on the ticket. Looks likes four more years of war and recession. Enjoy.

    Poll results attached.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #2
    depressing? yes.

    hopeless? no

    he's not "well ahead"... that's for sure. and we all know gwb... he'll mess up at least 4 or 10 times in the next 8 months....
     
  3. numediaman thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #3
    I'm beginning to feel that the American electorate has far more in common with the Israeli electorate than the Europeans. There is a tendency here to express opinions bordering on paranoia -- everyone is against us, and we don't care. As a result, the behaviour of the government further alienates potential allies -- leading to further isolation, and more paranoia.

    Take, for instance, the reaction to the vote in Spain. While some commentators have accurately concluded that Spanish electorate was angry about the lies of the Aznar government -- many here claim the Spanish are cowards, or at least bending to Al Qaeda. Just as the Israelis have moved solidly to the right in the face of violence, so too has the American electorate.

    Because of this, I suspect that any further terrorism, any further loss of life in Iraq, will only save Bush from himself.
     
  4. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #4
    i agree with everything you said... i just don't think it's time to give up hope yet

    and i'm a terribly pessimistic guy. :)
     
  5. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

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    #5
    Actually, the results are pretty meaningless if you look at a typical margin of error of 4%.
     
  6. windowsblowsass macrumors 6502a

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    #6
    war no
    recesion no
    war in iraq is over its just peace keeping now and the economys on the rebound also i dont know whats wrong with taking a dictator who openley harbored terrorists and tortured people out of power
     
  7. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #7
    "just peace keeping"...? tell that to the families of the soldiers who are dying there everyday. to the iraqis living there. to the families of the missionaries who were just killed there...

    are we going to take the saudi government out of power next? or how about the torture that the us military does? i guess we should be next on our own list...
     
  8. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #8
    I'm afraid you are right. Here's an example of just this sort of "either you are fer us or agin us" fear-mongering:

    http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-include-ramirez,1,4857056.ssipage

    Despicable, isn't it?
     
  9. 2jaded2care macrumors 6502

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    #9
    Personally, I think the results are pretty meaningless until about a week before the election.
     
  10. vwcruisn macrumors regular

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    #10


    what really blows my mind is that after the past 4 years... why would ANYONE in their right mind vote for Bush? The only exception here would be the top 3 percent of America (based on wealth), and perhaps the mentally insane (but they don't get to vote right?). In a perfect logical world Bush would get no more than 5 percent of the votes, 10 tops. (of course in a perfect logical world, bush wouldnt have been elected... oh wait.. he wasnt :mad: )
     
  11. numediaman thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #11
    You are assuming way too much.

    What do Americans really think (I wish I was making this stuff up):

    1) security vs. liberty:
    An ABC-Washington Post poll last week showed that 66 percent of Americans would give up some civil liberties to fight terrorism. The latest New York Times/CBS News Poll puts the figure at 74 percent. (admittedly, an old poll)​

    2) basic beliefs concerning Iraq War:
    Question 6 on the poll asked: "Is there evidence that Saddam Hussein (of Iraq) worked with Al Qaeda?" 65 people said yes, 33 people said no​

    3) First Amendment:
    "About 49% said the First Amendment gives us too much freedom, up from 39% last year." Also: the least popular First Amendment right is freedom of the press. "Forty-two percent of respondents said the press in America has too much freedom." -- The First Amendment Center Survey​

    4) evolution:
    Most recently, in Gallup’s February 19-21 poll, 45% of respondents chose "God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so," the statement that most closely describes biblical creationism. -- evolution believers represented less than 20 percent.​

    The Republican Party, and George Bush specifically, derive their support from those who hold these kinds of beliefs. This represents the majority in America.
     
  12. 2jaded2care macrumors 6502

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    #12
    Of course he was. The Electors of the Constitutionally-mandated Electoral College voted. Bush won.
     
  13. wwworry macrumors regular

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    #13
    Don't be a dope. Hussein did not harbor Al Qaeda. That was one of the lies Bush fed us to get into that war. Yes Hussein was bad. No the president should not lie and exagerate to get his way. Bush lies about too many things. :mad:
     
  14. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #14
    we are so dead
     
  15. G4scott macrumors 68020

    G4scott

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    #15
    I hate to break it to you, but your dream world isn't "perfectly logical"

    People in America will vote for Bush because he is a strong and firm leader. He doesn't waiver to political winds, and he has proven that he will do what it takes to keep America safe. I think it's more like the "we're voting for Bush because we don't want to be attacked by terrorists" group that's voting for him.

    Besides, give kerry a few more months, and I'm sure he'll have several mess-up's. Maybe he'll go down like dean... Made successful by the media, and ultimately destroyed by it...
     
  16. G4scott macrumors 68020

    G4scott

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    #16
    Actually, I think that the major news sources are so biased, that people are sick of reading trash from papers such as the New York Times. I know that I'm sick of my campus newspaper, which is so entrenched in it's own liberal culture, it's sickening to any non-socialist readers. I think they just want to get rid of this trash, and get good news that they can depend on. Also, these days, anybody can put up a website and make up their own "news". Too many people are fooled by this pseudo-news, and base their beliefs on distorted, biased, views.

    The media is so screwed up these days, it's hard to get straight facts from anyone on certain strong issues. You just have to pick your sources carefully, and take everything with a grain of salt. Trust me, there is quite a bit of conservative 'news' out there that seems to come from far, far right field, as well as liberal news. But then again, the majority of people don't care where their news comes from, so they'll keep on reading whatever it is they get, whether or not the source is good or bad...
     
  17. numediaman thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    He kept us safe on 9/11, didn't he? And what about the dead in Iraq? hundreds of Americans and thousands of Iraqis, all for phantom weapons -- I guess you are safe when dead. What about protecting his (few) allies like Spain? Guess those 201 are safe now, too.

    Of course Bush doesn't waiver -- he (and I guess you, too) really believe what he says. That's why I won't vote him. Bush believes in writing hate into the Constitution; large deficits and money for the rich; perpetual war and phoney WMDs. You have every right to like this agenda. But the idea of four more years of war, recession, and attacks on our rights does not sit well with me.

    EDIT: so we can add one more vote for trashing the First Amendment, huh?
     
  18. vwcruisn macrumors regular

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    #18
    Hmm.. but werent we attacked already under his watch? And how does attacking a country that didnt have anything to do with the attack on us helping us not get attacked by terrorists? If anything, I would think it would increase terrorism as the hate for america rises.


    well how many times should we allow bush to "mess up" before he "goes down"
     
  19. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #19
    and what exactly would that be?
     
  20. trebblekicked macrumors 6502a

    trebblekicked

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    #20
    you say tomayto, i say tomahto
    you say strong and firm leader, i say arrogant a**hole

    i think it's very sad that what GWB has done qualifies as "strong" leadership. stubborn is more like it, as evidenced by continued reports of his selective hearing when it comes to official reports (see cost of medicare, iraq intelligence).

    i'm calling BS on anyone who thinks the country will be ANY less safe with Kerry in the white house. you have no proof of that and no reason to believe otherwise aside from personal political prejudice (which reminds me that all this talk is fruitless. the ppp will wipe out all this crap in 8 short years anyway)
     
  21. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #21
    its just a matter of spin, if a president says it over and over and over eventually we take it as fact no matter how much spin or half truths.
     
  22. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

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    #22
    - Historian Alan Bullock

    25 brownie points to the first person who can identify who he's quoting & paraphrasing.
     
  23. Sayhey macrumors 68000

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    #23
    Sounds like Goebbels. Could be his boss.
     
  24. JamesDPS macrumors regular

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    #24
    Gotta be Hitler, or maybe Stalin. Sounds like their style...

    "A single deaths is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic" - Stalin

    Anyways numediaman's post makes me very sad -- I mean, I knew the majority in this country had everything bass-ackward, but if those stats are accurate (I'm scared by the "fewer than 20% believe in evolution" stat), seems like we're doomed. I dunno -- any thoughts on how we fix the mess? Seems so hopeless....
     
  25. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #25
    from those results, i think america sees W as a strong leader who had a high approval rating during 9/11 but has slipped in the polls

    he is seen as strong against terrorism but weak on the economy and it's his weakness on the economy which makes his approval rating lower these days after three lackluster years

    his overall job satisfaction rating is nowhere near the time of 9/11 and isn't likely to go up much, if at all, before the election which is drawing near...it would take a political miracle for bush to enjoy a 89% approval rating again

    i think america will still put W in for another four years even though the numbers are not super high...it would take a charismatic democrat like clinton, kennedy, or fdr to beat a modern republican president who the country feels so-so about...being an incumbent and having a so-so record is usually enough to regain the office

    W has to both do very bad job and have to find himself running against a very stong democrat and i don't think either condition is in place for this year

    if howard dean didn't lose steam early on, i think he could have made a strong candidate...i like the more conservative lieberman but his low key manner does not excite the populace

    that being said, i wouldn't call W's job very bad, but i would still characterize his job done as somewhat bad or unsatisfactory

    clinton did what i would call a good job in his two terms and he was able to rally a nation on domestic policies and make america feel good about themselves and the economy and that is a big part of why the country enjoyed its longest period of economic growth under his watch

    on military matters, clinton was not a great president but it never threatened his presidency

    what i would like to see is a person tough on terrorism, in favor of a covert (not necessarily large) special forces, be strong on the economy, work towards a free college education, and be strong on healthcare...basically, a candidate who can take the best attributes of both parties and make it work for them

    like them or not, both reagan and clinton were able to take a smattering of left, middle, and right wing ideas, rename them, and call it their own...and more importantly, somehow convince the population that it was really "their" idea...teflon, slick, sneaky??? yeah, maybe, but political genius ;)
     

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