Obama: only two paths for 'taxes'

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by IBradMac, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. macrumors 68000

    IBradMac

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    Ohio
    #1
    From The Hill:
    During his weekly address on Saturday, President Obama warned Republicans that there are only two possible outcomes for negotiations over the looming "fiscal cliff."

    He said that either they agree to allow tax breaks to expire for the top two percent of American earners, or taxes will go up for...

    http://thehill.com/administration-a...nly-two-paths-available-in-fiscal-cliff-talks

    Im a registered republican, and I see Boehner needing to give some bipartisan support on this issue or every American will be hurting. Lets just give it a try and see what happens. :confused:
     
  2. macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    Oct 9, 2006
    #2
    I really want to see the Democrats hold the line on this one. I am sick and tired of the gop refusing to get anything less that 100% of what they want no compromise. This time I see the dems really have them by the balls. Their best choice is to give in.
     
  3. macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #3
    Since the US can't pay for their spending, maybe they should raise taxes on everyone so that there is a rally to stop overspending.
     
  4. thread starter macrumors 68000

    IBradMac

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    #4
    Who is going to rally?
     
  5. macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #5
    The new people having to pay increased taxes to pay for their spending. Hell even if they dipped down low enough to make a few people pay in on the bottom few tiers they might hear some shouts.
     
  6. macrumors 6502a

    jknight8907

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    #6
    Almost half the population are takers, not payers. Hard to get much complaining out of that crowd.
     
  7. macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #7
    When you shift higher taxes on everyone there will be some complaints. I believe the term they use is "skin in the game". For far too long much of the US population hasn't had any. Sales taxes are lower than most other countries, nearly half of the population doesn't owe federal income taxes, gas taxes are lower, etc.
     
  8. macrumors 6502a

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #8
    I'm worried about "takers", too. Like the takers in Hostess management, who took big pay raises while underfunding the pension fund by $8M/month (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20121125,0,966735.column), Enron's actions including financial fraud and the energy trading arm that conspired to manipulate electricity markets, the myriad of banks and mortgage lenders and brokers who created the 2007-2009 financial meltdown, and so on. There are a lot of "takers" within the business world (http://www.avc.com/a_vc/2010/10/takers-and-makers.html)

    Or, perhaps you were thinking about Romney's 47%-- which has been so thoroughly debunked you surely don't want to hear about state and local sales taxes and property taxes again, do you?
     
  9. macrumors 6502a

    Jackintosh

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    #9
    Ah, the old 47% theory again, eh? I suppose those disabled vets who fought for this country ought to stop being "takers" and refuse their benefits. Same for social security recipients who worked all their lives, but are now "takers"?
     
  10. G51989, Nov 25, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012

    macrumors 68030

    G51989

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    #10
    Yep, those Soldiers, Police Officers, Firefighters, teachers, road workers, detectives, and jobs of the like. Bunch of takers, Senior citizens who worked their entire lifes for benefits, veterans who put their ass on the line so your fat ass can be comfy and safe, those horrible goverment workers who keep the goverment running....bunch of takers.....

    Need to pay MORE in taxes so the rich can keep getting a free ride.

    Thats fair...right?
     
  11. macrumors 68020

    Macky-Mac

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    #11
    a lot of the"takers" are just taking advantage of the tax laws to reduce their tax liability......just like Romney :p
     
  12. macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    I say just raise taxes on the people that voted for Obama. That is fair.
     
  13. macrumors 68000

    NickZac

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    #13
    This is an important point. The concept of "takers" is conditionally flawed. You have three classes of people in regards to this concept: 1) people paying more into the system than the system pays to them, 2) people being paid more by the system than they pay into, and 3) people not paying into the system nor being paid by the system (a rare issue and another topic altogether). However, payers and payees are not set in stone. A disabled veteran, as you noted, or someone who is 96 may have been in the first class for many, many years, and have transferred to the second class upon injury, old age, retirement, disability, etc. Not the point that those in the second category do not pay into the system is simply wrong. Most benefits are taxed and sales tax is still collected, as are a variety of other taxes.

    If we look at people as 'nonpayers', we've neglected a large portion of history, and Romney's comment in this regard belittled all of the retired persons who worked to build this country and all of the severely injured persons who served to protect it.

    The issue we are beginning to see now is that there are far more people being paid more than they pay in than seen in previous times, and a rising workforce that may not be able to meet the 'pay in' demands. Both tax increases and budget/benefits cuts to entitlement programs seem almost unavoidable given the current financial situation.
     
  14. macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #14
    that has been debunk multiple times. You are just spreading GOP lies.
     
  15. Ugg
    macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #15
    The question to ask is why they don't have any skin in the game. Low wages Anti-union tactics, CEO wage inflation, preference given to predatory "investors" etc, etc. when will The average American be allowed the opportunity to contribute to the US economy?

    ZA, you've reatedly made it clear that you are a "classist" and that you hold the average American worker in contempt. What will it take for them to gain your respect.? Their total subjugation ?
     
  16. macrumors 68000

    thewitt

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    Sep 13, 2011
    #16
    Taxes will be going up for everyone. Lots of them.

    You could take 100% of the income of the top 20% wage earners in the US and we would still fall off the fiscal cliff.

    Rolling back the "blame it on Bush" tax cuts doesn't even come close to addressing the problem.

    You guys are living in a fantasy land.
     
  17. macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    Chicago, Illinois
    #17
    Sorry, those tax cuts were only meant to be temporary in the first place. They need to end for EVERYONE. We were doing quite well before, and we will again.

    Those cuts need to GO- across the board.
     
  18. macrumors 68000

    Joined:
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    NYC
    #18
    Either Republicans agree and increase the tax rate on earnings over $250,000 or the Democrats can wait for January 1st and allow all of the Bush tax cuts to expire. Then the Republican congress can pass the senate's middle class tax cut bill lowering the rate on earnings below $250,000. Either way, Obama gets what he wants.

    I don't see what the big deal is anyway. Republicans are making this into a doom and gloom scenario which it really isn't.
     
  19. macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    Oct 9, 2006
    #19
    Spreading more gop lies I see.

    Where are we and the dems saying raising taxes is the solution to everything.
    We and the dems have been demanding a balanced appouch. That is spending cuts and tax increase and yes some of the cuts need to come from the military. Not the GOP that is cuts only and no cuts to the military.
     
  20. macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #20
    First, Source?

    Second, the "fiscal cliff" is an arbitrary construct built by Congress. It's not a real thing and people need to stop treating it as such. The huge liabilities are certainly a problem and we need real budget reform, but there's no reason to solve the entire budget immediately, nor is there a good reason to sack the wealth of the top 20 percent. Instead, we need to dial down spending and dial up revenue.

    A mixture of cuts and new revenue will dissipate the shock and protect the economic recovery.
    I surmise that part of the reason the recovery's been so weak—apart from large private debt owing to stagnant wages—is the continued OMGWTFBBQ! terror of the anti-debt crowd.

    We've been using the credit card for decades, but suddenly now we've got to pay everything back? I don't think this is realistic and doing it on the back of the middle-class and poor is immoral and dangerous.

    Well, repeal of the Bush-era tax cut would bring $4 Trillion into the government coffers over the next 10 years. The current deficit is $1.4 Trillion, so the repeal would bend that curve to $1 Trillion per year.

    ----------

    I agree. Much of the force behind such doom and gloom is political posturing. We need real budget work, boring attention to details, but the GOP is so busy screaming about the falling sky and Democrats keep terrifying everyone about Social Security that nothing gets done.
     
  21. macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    Location:
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    #21
    A two or four year degree vocational or otherwise, and a reluctance to stay put in a no skill job while leveraging union numbers to inflate their wages while they corner newcomers out of the labour market.

    Until then I will continue to berate high school flunkies who are extorting 28 dollars an hour to sweep up trash.
     
  22. macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #22

    Where are these trash sweepers making $28 an hour (plus benefis!)?
     
  23. macrumors 6502a

    bizzle

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    Jun 29, 2008
    #23
    Just about everyone in a labor union. I worked for a trade show contractor in 2005 and 2006 and we had to use union labor to set up the shows. Journeymen made 28.50 plus benefits to tape carpet to the floor and put up drapes.

    I worked with a guy at Wawa when I was a kid who's full time job was with the town sanitation department. He rode a trash truck and made close to $30 an hour plus benefits.

    Do I need to go on? Makes me wonder why I waste my time in computers when I could have a stress free job making more.
     
  24. macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #24
    Well, there's the question isn't it? Why aren't you a sanitation worker? What's keeping you from taping down carpeting at trade shows?

    Aren't those jobs more physical and risky than coding? What's post-retirement life like? How long can you work as a journeyman contractor?
     
  25. macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    #25
    That's if ALL the Bush tax cuts are repealed. That's not even on the table. The offer is to repeal it for the top 2% which will only bring in $80B a year.
     

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