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Diode

macrumors 68020
Apr 15, 2004
2,443
125
Washington DC
A symptom would be what you say about the companies. The problem is the approval of vaguely written patents. If you only treat the symptom the problem will never go away.

Fair point and agree completely.

Software patents are difficult to properly patent to begin with.
 

Tiger8

macrumors 68020
May 23, 2011
2,479
649
My, my , you don't seem to get out much.

Travel the world, live in other countries long enough maybe then you can make that statement.

I hold three citizenships, visited dozen countries, lived in three, and chose to be here. And I've worked in 18 states. So don't play that card with me bud.

God knows the US has its problems, but you can't deny it is one of the best countries in the world. I hate the 'Everything is stupid in America' statements because they are simply not true.

Next -->
 
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Swift

macrumors 68000
Feb 18, 2003
1,827
964
Los Angeles
Ironic that the post right after yours has a bunch of that bloviating you mentioned. Wingnuts have to hang on to something, so why not hang on to their conspiracy theories and hollow BS? Keep it up, guys. We're looking forward to another 8 years after this term is up. I mean, without minorities, women, or anything other than the white man's vote, how are you gonna win?



I will. I'll watch people like you drive your party right into the ground...with a huge smile on my face. It was just a matter of time before Republicans let the crazies take over.

Question: which modern president used the most executive orders and signing statements even though he had a majority in both houses until 2006? Why, Bush. Presidents do have the power of an executive order.
 

Piggie

macrumors G3
Feb 23, 2010
9,117
4,016
So will the stop companies like Apple from drawing something on a sheet of paper in crayon with a few arrows and descriptions of what happens, when they don't have a clue how to make it, or if they ever will make it, just to stop someone else from making it, then Apple can sue.

Which IS the problem.
 

portishead

macrumors 65816
Apr 4, 2007
1,114
2
los angeles
Except that he lied about it to the American public and even the UN for WEEKS after the attack. Remember the nonsense about the video they tried to push on us? Now we find out that he knew the truth from day one. And let's not forget that a general was relieved of duty on the spot for trying to take action and save those people.



I might be inclined to believe you, except that the IRS only targeted conservative groups, and only approved their tax exempt status after Obama's second election. There's also the fact that Douglas Schulman (former head of the IRS, as I'm sure you know) visited the white house over 150 times during Obama's administration, compared to once during his four years with the Bush administration.

There's also the scandal in which the white house has been tapping, investigating, and even threatening journalists from nearly every major news network, in an effort to control what information that reaches the public.

In addition to those scandals, I want to remind you of his biggest and most serious offense, Fast and Furious, which resulted in two dead border patrol officers and over 400 dead Mexicans, in a twisted effort to restrict your gun rights and subvert the second amendment.

But don't worry. There are enough people like you with absolutely no clue whatsoever to ensure that Obama is in no danger of losing his office.

The journalist phone tapping is bad I agree but you're exaggerating as it was only AP. Fast and Furious was also a disaster but that is old news. Second amendment should be restricted though. Gun nuts are doing more damage than bin laden. I think you need to check your sources, seems you have some bad intel.
 

Mac'nCheese

Suspended
Feb 9, 2010
3,752
5,108
Hah, it's so funny how a president gets in a scandal or two and then suddenly his smiling face starts appearing on every web site in the world with him suddenly making various announcements about this that and other -- anything to create news that is different from the scandal news :)

I don't mean that in negative way. although I do suppose it is a bit sad...

Yeah but what is he supposed to do? Nothing but wait for the "scandals" to pass so nobody thinks he is covering something up? Like the republics s wouldn't make up some new crap to call a scandal every month....
 

portishead

macrumors 65816
Apr 4, 2007
1,114
2
los angeles
Yeah but what is he supposed to do? Nothing but wait for the "scandals" to pass so nobody thinks he is covering something up? Like the republics s wouldn't make up some new crap to call a scandal every month....

Anything they can do to not cooperate and ruin our nation. It's the republican way lately. They'll mostly be phased out in a couple decades when they all die off.
 

alexgowers

macrumors 65816
Jun 3, 2012
1,338
892
I agree change is needed. But not by adding more loop holes to a broken patent system!

As with all new legislation it will just mean big companies can litigate harder than the little guys.

It should be simplified and totally reworked to protect only ideas that are not under the control of a multinational or company larger than 100 people.

Hell most of the time these big companies just ignore the patents in place and do it anyway. The little guys are always just squashed.
 

benspratling

macrumors 6502
Jan 16, 2006
417
136
Supporting big donners to roll over the little guy

Don't get me wrong, I don't like what Lodsys is doing to Apple, but the fault here doesn't lie in the concept of a patent holding firm; it lies in the complete inability of the lawyers & reviewers at the USPO to understand what is patentable is in the field of software.
Almost no individual can take a new product from concept to mass production these days, but plenty of folks can come up with ideas to improve one step in a process. There's no need for perpetual employment, so licensing is a great way to do it. There's no guarantee that the idea will be implemented immediately, so holding is a great idea.
This entire problem is due to the fact that the USPO granted a crap patent, or is at least applying a patent to something it really didn't describe.
We need a jury of peers (software developers) to determine whether this patent holds. It wouldn't be out long.
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
Another proof that US americans are the most stupid people in the world.
Even now that you have a half intelligent president, you do everything to stay dumb.
Really sad. Once the world admired the US, but since at least two decades you turned into fat, brainless zombies.

HUH??:confused:

I think you might have just slightly missed the irony of the post...by a teeny bit.

(If I had put in any more smilies...)
 

Diode

macrumors 68020
Apr 15, 2004
2,443
125
Washington DC
Did not expect the number of responses I got. If you have a problem with patent trolls, then we agree. But the patent system encompasses a lot more than that. To say that the entire system is broken due to a relatively small (patent trolls suck, and they hurt small business, but there are bigger problems) issue. This is a great step in reducing patent trolling, but overall the Patent system isn't "broken". (I should clarify that I have my own issues with the patent system. It's far from perfect.)

There are lots of empirical studies done that show patents harm innovation and even those studies don't factor the brain drain caused by the need for patent attorneys.
 

Happybunny

macrumors 68000
Sep 9, 2010
1,792
1,389
Another proof that US americans are the most stupid people in the world.
Even now that you have a half intelligent president, you do everything to stay dumb.
Really sad. Once the world admired the US, but since at least two decades you turned into fat, brainless zombies.



Some people just don't get irony, and you are one of them I'm sorry to say.;)

But be my guest and rant on some more and keep us all entertained.:p
 

pubwvj

macrumors 68000
Oct 1, 2004
1,901
208
Mountains of Vermont
This is good news. The patent system in the U.S. is broken and needs to be fixed.

The best fix would be to eliminate all patenting including all past patents.

What, specifically, is broken about the patent system?

Perhaps you're a troll but I'll answer the question as if it were serious. The problem with the patent system is patent trolls sue without producing products, patent clerks who rubber stamp things that should never have been patented, all the money wasted on litigation that should be put into research and production, the hyper extended time frames, the failure of patents to end as they were originally intended... The list goes on. The system is a shambles and should be trashed.

Ideas are a dime a dozen. It is implementation, production and marketing that should return the reward. Eliminate patents and let people prove their ideas in the market place.
 

GoldenJoe

macrumors 6502
Apr 26, 2011
369
164
Question: which modern president used the most executive orders and signing statements even though he had a majority in both houses until 2006? Why, Bush. Presidents do have the power of an executive order.

Actually, Bush II didn't sign the most executive orders either. That dubious record goes to the original socialist president, FDR. For what it's worth, Obama has a good chance of surpassing Bush II, which would just be a completely socialist president surpassing one that is only fiscally socialist.
 

Swift

macrumors 68000
Feb 18, 2003
1,827
964
Los Angeles
So will the stop companies like Apple from drawing something on a sheet of paper in crayon with a few arrows and descriptions of what happens, when they don't have a clue how to make it, or if they ever will make it, just to stop someone else from making it, then Apple can sue.

Which IS the problem.

If you think only Apple is the problem, then YOU are part of the problem. Law is for everybody or it's unjust.
 
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Mike Valmike

macrumors 6502a
Feb 27, 2012
551
0
Chandler, Arizona
It is easy to generalise this discussion by focussing solely on patent trolls, and we should not do it. Patent trolls prosper because they are able to hold such silly patents in the first place. If the invention is valid and a good one, I doubt that any company would even be willing to sell it.

Such agreement I can barely voice it loudly enough.

President Obama is on the wrong track with this. He is the executive; he needs to direct the USPTO to do its job properly. If they did, the patent troll problem would be significantly diminished. The system as such otherwise functions as designed and the saleability of valuable patents is an intended and positive consequence of this.

I support the President almost without exception on social matters because he generally gets it right. He is, as in this case, generally horribly wrong on economic and business matters. His Presidency would be better served if he stayed out of that sandbox and focused his efforts playing his strongest cards instead. But where's the political hay in that?
 

Swift

macrumors 68000
Feb 18, 2003
1,827
964
Los Angeles
Fair point and agree completely.

Software patents are difficult to properly patent to begin with.

I'd make an exception for really gnarly programming, like video codecs. MPEG isn't something that just grew on trees. They all involve using new methods, not just a vague idea. To get a beautiful, high-def movie streaming into your living room is something that a lot of smart people spent a long time doing totally non-obvious work to do, and I think they have, especially when they pool fees like the MPEG-LA group, and conditional on their agreeing to fair use for non-commercial viewing, and their fee structure is not overly burdensome to commercial users, then I have no problem with their claiming a temporary monopoly on the use of the methods they developed.
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
Actually, Bush II didn't sign the most executive orders either. That dubious record goes to the original socialist president, FDR. For what it's worth, Obama has a good chance of surpassing Bush II, which would just be a completely socialist president surpassing one that is only fiscally socialist.

It seems that when you are looking for a political dirty word to call someone..."socialist" is the new "communist".

(Seems like "commie" dies with the USSR. I mean, who remains...Cuba!?)

:rolleyes: ;)
 

cmChimera

macrumors 601
Feb 12, 2010
4,273
3,762
There are lots of empirical studies done that show patents harm innovation and even those studies don't factor the brain drain caused by the need for patent attorneys.
I disagree that patents harm innovation, and think that there would be substantially less innovation without patents.

The best fix would be to eliminate all patenting including all past patents.



Perhaps you're a troll but I'll answer the question as if it were serious. The problem with the patent system is patent trolls sue without producing products, patent clerks who rubber stamp things that should never have been patented, all the money wasted on litigation that should be put into research and production, the hyper extended time frames, the failure of patents to end as they were originally intended... The list goes on. The system is a shambles and should be trashed.

Ideas are a dime a dozen. It is implementation, production and marketing that should return the reward. Eliminate patents and let people prove their ideas in the market place.

As I stated earlier, patent trolls are terrible but their existence alone isn't enough to call the entire system broken. Patents are not generally granted on a whim and are (I can't stress this enough) frequently denied. The system as a whole functions exactly how it's supposed to function. Are there problems? Obviously, but expecting perfection is a bit idealistic.

As for the idea of eliminating patents altogether, I find the proposal to be nonsensical. Eliminating issued patents for no reason raises constitutional issues for one. Secondly, you are misinterpreting a patent. Patents don't protect ideas, they protect inventions. Your plan would have someone invent something, only to have a more powerful corporation copy the invention wholesale and place it on the market. That's not only unfair, but could cause irreparable harm to inventors.
 

50548

Guest
Apr 17, 2005
5,039
2
Currently in Switzerland
Then why write any software at all? Some poor slob develops an application that does amazing things. Apple, or Microsoft, or Google, or whoever comes along and copies it and makes it part of their suite of apps that come with the operating system. No need to pay the guy who wrote the code one red cent. Let him eat bread and water. Under the current scenario these tech giants have to pay big bucks to buy out or license software. Under your scenario they just kick the little guy to the curb, take his work for themselves, and move on to bigger profits. And it's not like some little outfit is going to take OS X from Apple and use it to any advantage.

Think things through. Remember the little guy who invented the intermittent windshield wiper blade? The big auto manufacturers got him to sell it to them for something like $50,000.00, then put them on every model. It took him decades but he finally got them to pay him what it was worth.

Not so with your logic. Software IS patentable and it should be.

Since the very beginning of the IT industry, software has been protected by copyright, period.

And notwithstanding the lobbies and efforts undertaken (mainly) by the US, this is EXACTLY how it is protected by most jurisdictions around the world. Software should be patentable ONLY to the extent where it is part and parcel of an industrial process. Any other conclusion leads to the disastrous scenario you have now in the US and other US-influenced markets.

And that is the main problem with software patents - due to the incompetence or negligence of bodies like the USPTO, a mere idea has become patentable, something that goes against the very core of the patent system. I know, trolls disguise this under ingenious schemes in patent applications to make such an idea look like a "process" (hierarchical menus, one-click purchase are just a few of the many ludicrous examples) - in other words, they defraud the very principles upon which the patent paradigm was created.
 
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