Off, on, off, on, off, on, off, on... bad for the computer?

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by Kingsly, Apr 7, 2006.

  1. Kingsly macrumors 68040

    Kingsly

    #1
    Is all this dual booting putting extra wear and tear on my MBP's hardware? I probably dual boot ~3-4 times a day. Someone who never turns off their macs tole me that powering up is the hardest part (kinda like landing a plane)
    Usually I turn off my mac at night, but now with dual booting... Im worried.
     
  2. mrichmon macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    Yes, powering up a computer is the hardest part since electronics tend to either fail soon after they have been assembled, or as a result of thermal stress. Some of the greatest thermal stress is when a cold computer powers up and the chips go from room temperature up to operating temperature. (Room temp ~20C up to 50C in a powerbook.)

    It sounds like you are warm-booting rather than cold booting your mac. A warm boot happens when you choose "reset" rather than "shutdown". Also, if the computer has running for a bit of time then there is very little change in temperature no matter whether you do a warm or cold boot.

    (BTW, in general the riskiest part of flying is on take-off rather than on landing.)
     
  3. Kingsly thread starter macrumors 68040

    Kingsly

    #3
    No, i'm pretty sure the riskiest part is landing. Bringing a multi-ton aircraft into a controlled contact with the ground... worrying about glideslope and minimum speeds before a stall occurs... not missing the runway altogether...wind shear... etc. T/O is, overly simplified: Set flaps, point the plane down the runway, release brakes, throttle up and go. Tail draggers are harder.

    Anyway, it sounds like powering up and down is fine as long as it is already up to operating temp. There is no power spike or anything?
    -Thanks
     
  4. BlizzardBomb macrumors 68030

    BlizzardBomb

    Joined:
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    #4
    I'm pretty sure you're fine. If you're worried about power spikes, you might want to check out Belkin SurgeMasters.
     
  5. Eidorian macrumors Penryn

    Eidorian

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    #5
    I had frost on the interior of my windows then this happened. My iMac was ASLEEP and not powered down too.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. mrichmon macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2003
    #6
    You mean as opposed to loosing power after v1 but before you have height, distance and speed enough to return to the field or sufficient stopping distance on the runway? :)

    No power spikes to worry about. Computer power supplies are designed to ensure smooth and stable power. The most risk would probably be a spike that originates from the backlight inverter but again, this is generally well compensated for.
     
  7. Kingsly thread starter macrumors 68040

    Kingsly

    #7
    You are right, but really, how many times has there been critical engine failure after the point of no return?
    How many times have planes crashed whilst landing?
    The fact of the matter is that a good 90% of aircraft accidents are pilot error. Engine failure is a mechanical error. Of course, the MOST dangerous part of flying is the drive to the airport. I rest my case. :p


    Good.
    On the topic of heat, Winblows did not go to sleep like I told it to and caused my MBP to get really, really hot in its neoprene case. Thankfully I heard the fans kick on (man, they can be powerful when they want to be!) and rescued my baby-booting back into my beloved OSX.
     
  8. bah-bah'd macrumors regular

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    Jan 22, 2006
    #8
    Ewww, the LCD panel was too cold? Was this damage permanent?
     
  9. RollTide macrumors 6502

    RollTide

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    #9
    Random plane fact

    Just as many german pilots died on take off as did in the air, many aces came out of the luftwaffe, but anyway...
     
  10. yippy macrumors 68020

    yippy

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    #10
    Actually, as a pilot, I will confirm that the riskiest part of flying is on takeoff. Due to the configuration of the plane at takeoff (angle of attack, power settings, flaps settings, what is in front of you (ie NOT runway)) the consequences of something going wrong at takeoff are much more severe than a plan that has a problem but is already set up to land. To clarify, it is more likely that you will damage an airplane on landing however, you are more likely to die on takeoff.
     
  11. Eidorian macrumors Penryn

    Eidorian

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    #11
    My iMac suffered no damaged and it still has no dead/stuck pixels. :D
     
  12. maya macrumors 68040

    maya

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    #12
    So with all this logic in place a car that is started on and off several times a day, even with a cold start will live a shorter life. :rolleyes:

    Sure that makes a lot of sense, if a computer is on or in sleep mode, it will last a lot longer. Last time I check it is better to turn your display and computer off as there is far less a chance for a power outage, spike, or something else.

    Look no further than the operating temperature on the data sheets that Apple provides, and I am pretty sure that room temperature is right in the middle of all this. ;)

    Turning your system off is far better as there is less wear on the components. If an HDD or any other component is going to fail, it will do it regardless if its ON or OFF. :p :)
     
  13. maya macrumors 68040

    maya

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    #13
    Wow, makes me ever wonder how technology and computing ever passed the 20th Century and into the 21st Century. People are treating they computers as if it very a multi-million/billion dollar satellite. There is a far great chance that that Intel Mac you have there will lose value before it dies. :rolleyes: ;) :)

    First people here were taking car of their iPods, treating it like gold. Sheesh its only technology, I bet you can pick up a replacement from a corner store. ;) :D
     
  14. Eidorian macrumors Penryn

    Eidorian

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    #14
    Well, the iMac G5's operating temperature is 50° to 95° F (10° to 35° C). I had it at least around 30° to 40° F that day. I had a layer of frost on the interior of my windows. This is the same room I sleep in too. :eek:
     
  15. maya macrumors 68040

    maya

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    #15

    Glass windows usually have condensation or frost at times on the side that faces your house/flat/apartment/car/etc...its nothing unusual during the winter season. That being said if the room was that cold you would have suffered from hypothermia before even considering your computer. And I am sure that once the temperature of your room was normalized there would be no damage, unless there was liquid poured into the internal components. ;)
     
  16. Eidorian macrumors Penryn

    Eidorian

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    #16
    Yeah, I have several wool blankets on my bed since I turn the heat off at night. I have a radiator around but I decided not to use it for those few deathly cold days. (I have no clue why either.) It was just nice having the G5 running that cold. :rolleyes:
     
  17. maya macrumors 68040

    maya

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    #17
    Apple and Shipping Co, do transport these units via air and sea freight. The temperature gets really low, I would not be concerned. ;)
     
  18. Timepass macrumors 65816

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    #18

    just FYI sleep mode to the hardware is the same as being off. So stress that it would take from going to sleep mode to on is about the same as going from off to on. Everything has to spin up. And power up.
     
  19. Eidorian macrumors Penryn

    Eidorian

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    #19
    Shipping temperatures and operating temperatures are two diffrenent things. :p
     
  20. maya macrumors 68040

    maya

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    #20
    Yes, I do know that. ;)

    That being said the computer is at times cold to the touch when it reaches you home and you turn it on. Yes, and does it fail. Exactly, enough said. ;) :)

    Same can be said for cars, it will warm up once heat is produced. ;)
     
  21. maya macrumors 68040

    maya

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    #21
    Sleep mode is the same as turning it off, sure whatever. :rolleyes:

    Lets see in sleep mode there is still electricity coursing through the components to react/respond whenever it is signaled to wake from sleep mode. Shutting the computer down and considering you have a surge protector only retains what remaining electricity is still coursing in the components to dissipate over time, thus the components are not constantly have a flow of electricity. ;) :)

    The two are the same in regards to the HDD being parked and the display being off. :)
     
  22. Eidorian macrumors Penryn

    Eidorian

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    #22
    Yeah, your machine still uses a few watts of power while it's asleep.
     
  23. Kingsly thread starter macrumors 68040

    Kingsly

    #23
    <unrelated plane chat> yippi, I stand corrected. Personally (not being a pilot of anything bigger than a .60 model plane... or X-plane) I have a lot more trouble landing than taking off. I actually have gotten pretty good in a 767... but I use the ILS to hold glideslope. And yes, it gets pretty busy in the cockpit during the last 30sec before contact! :D
    Lading a helicopter is a NIGHTMARE. I have crashed my model one many times on landing... never during T/O. The problem occurs when the heli gets captured in its own ground effect. </unrelated plane chat>


    So, from all discussion it seems clear that turning off the computer is in fact BETTER than letting it sleep. As for dual booting: the constant on, off, on, off routine doesn't hurt the electronics? It seems like it would take its toll. One minute there is power, then none, then all the sudden power flowing through the electronics again... I really don't know. Help?
     
  24. mrichmon macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2003
    #24
    And the only meaningful content on your original post was the comment about the HDD having to continue operating and thus wearing it out. This is ignoring the fact that when the computer is idle then the HDD is likely to spin down.

    Hard drives, and optical drives are the only *mechanical* devices in an apple machine. Mechanical devices in general wear out due to use. Electronics, especially chips, capacitors and resistors more commonly fail during startup from a cold state due to thermal stress. (This is assuming the component's were not faulty from the factory and survived burn in.)

    Not quite. During sleep, power is only maintained to the RAM. The main heat producing parts of a computer are the CPU, graphics processor, bridge chips, and hard drive. None of these components are powered up when the computer is sleeping. Thus the computer temperature while sleeping will return to room temperature. You can check this yourself -- start a temperature monitoring program such as "Temperature Monitor", put the computer to sleep with the temperature display still open on the screen. Leave the computer sleeping for a few hours to allow it to cool. Wake the computer and you will notice that the first few temperature readings will be around room temp, but within a minute or two will have risen to operating temps.
     
  25. bah-bah'd macrumors regular

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    Jan 22, 2006
    #25
    Those are operating temperatures fool. Why you so anti-whateveryousay post happy? Quit comparing starting a cold 2-ton car to cold .90nm processors.
     

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