Official Merom (Core 2 Duo) Launch on Monday?

[Manic Mouse]

Yup, heat is no problem. Cost on the other hand is. Going from a 2.4 GHz Conroe from a 1.83 GHz Yonah on the low-end is roughly a 30% increase in cost JUST for the CPU. As for your "iMac Ultra"...

$1000 - 2.93 GHz Conroe
$800 - 23" Display
$300 - X1900
$400 - Hard Drive, Optical Drive, RAM etc.
+ Build costs, marketing costs, logic board cost, casing costs etc.
+ Apple's profit margin

And you are easily looking at a $3000 machine.

I want to see:

• The MB with a 1.83 GHz and a 2 GHz Core 2 Duo (Merom)
• The 15" MBP with a 2.16 GHz and a 2.33 GHz Core 2 Duo (Merom) and a MR X1800.
• The 17" MBP with a 2.33 GHz Core 2 Duo (Merom) and a MR X1800 XT.
• The 17" iMac with a 1.86 GHz Core 2 Duo (Conroe (Allendale)) and a X1600 Pro 256 MB.
• The 20" iMac with a 2.13 GHz Core 2 Duo (Conroe (Allendale)) and a X1650 Pro 256 MB.
• Maybe a high-end 20" (possibly 23") iMac with a 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo (Conroe) and a X1800 GTO 256 MB.
• The Mac Mini with a 1.66 GHz and a 1.83 Ghz Core 2 Duo (Merom) with MR X1400 on the high-end model or as a BTO.

For a desktop machine those iMac specs are utterly pathetic. A X1600 in 2007? Heck, it was a mediocre card 6 months ago, let alone in 6 months time. A crappy 2Mb cache C2D and both slow as hell compared to what every other desktop manufacturer will be offering?

The iMac is a desktop computer and Apple's only desktop computer. It should offer desktop performance, end of. What use is a crippled desktop, with all the problems of a mobile form factor but none of the advantages, to anyone? You might as well buy a Macbook.

If Apple released an iMac with those specs you would have to be totally retarded to buy one. They will be using the same processors as everyone else with C2D and will have no excuse for offering crappy specs.

What would be competitive:

MB: 1.83 and 2.0Ghz Merom, Integrated graphics
MBP: 2-2.33Ghz Merom, X1800
iMac 2.4-2.66Ghz Conroe, X1800 and LCD res upgrade
Mac Mini: 1.83Ghz Allendale (going to be much cheaper than Merom, so if they can they will put one in) Integrated graphics
Mac Pro: Dual 2.0-3.0Ghz Xeons

 

[Kelmon]

Arrgh! The anticipation! While I'd like to be able to hold off on a new laptop until Santa Rosa and a supporting MacBook Pro hits the market I can't. My old Ti PowerBook is way too slow these days and it will be replaced by the first 17" Merom-based MacBook Pro that Apple releases. While there's a few things that I'd like to see updated in the new models beyond the processor, I think my #1 will be 4GB RAM limit (2GB is fine for one OS but I want to be running OS X and Windows side-by-side at work) and #2 will be an updated GPU.

It will certainly be interesting to see what happens next week (personally, I'm not expecting an announcement, but hey, I'm happy to be wrong) and it will nicely coincide with the finances becoming available for the muther of all portable Macs. As long as the new one doesn't have any QA or design issues, I'll be as happy as a pig in ****...

 

[aswitcher]

What would be competitive:

SNIP
iMac 2.4-2.66Ghz Conroe, X1800 and LCD res upgrade
Mac Mini: 1.83Ghz Allendale (going to be much cheaper than Merom, so if they can they will put one in) Integrated graphics
Mac Pro: Dual 2.0-3.0Ghz Xeons

I agree, it would be really good if Apple did what they did with the Mac Pro, and made sure the next updates used the best appropriate tech available.

Alternatively, they should release a grunty half sized Mac Pro for those who need more power and customisation, but dont need a full on work station.

 

[daneoni]

Damn PowerPC fans.

Apple is INTEL now. We Love Intel Because Stevie Tells Us So.
We hate AMD and IBM. Should Apple ever move to another CPU provider, we will seamlessly transition to hating Intel again. This is the Way of the Mac.

What's so good about G5's anyway? They are slow, too hot, and skull juice.
Why do we love Intel? Because Steve says to, and Core 2 Duo is powerful, cool, not permanently drunk, allows us to run Windows and helps Apple increase its market share.

We love ATi because just like Intel, their products are the best at the moment. We still love nVIDIA because their GPUs are in the Mac Pro.

We love Israel because they make our Core 2 Duos and we love China because they make our Macs. We love California because that's where Our Lord Stevie J is (Don't particularly care about the rest of the US, sorry guys).

We love our Big Cats because they run so fast and look so clean and powerful (Hmmm... Mystery of OS codenames revealed?) and of course because they are not Windows, which are susceptible to breaking...

People who live in Windows shouldn't throw Viruses?

Off track...

Anyway, Rawr to all you PowerPC fanboys (And girls)

Intel 4EVER!

...yeah whatever you say fanboy

 

[manu chao]

You're screwing up, intel. We don't want 300 trillion transistors on a 1 nm die. We want longer battery life. Idiots.

Don't blame Intel, blame Apple for not using the ULV versions of the Core Duo chips. There are other manufacturers which use them (otherwise it would not make much sense for Intel to offer them).

However, the battery life of these machines is maybe in the order of six hours only, for once because the screen, HD etc. still need the same amount of power. Making the screen smaller, using Intel graphics, maybe even a 1.8" HD, you can reduce power consumption further, most often manufacturers also reduce battery size at the same time to make the laptops lightweight, preventing you to see battery life numbers of ten hours.

Moreover, reports about machines using the ULV versions (and sometimes 1.8" HDs) do complain about the performance.

 

[BlizzardBomb]

For a desktop machine those iMac specs are utterly pathetic. A X1600 in 2007? Heck, it was a mediocre card 6 months ago, let alone in 6 months time. A crappy 2Mb cache C2D and both slow as hell compared to what every other desktop manufacturer will be offering?

Crappy 2MB? LOL! So that automatically makes the current iMacs crap. And an X1650 Pro is a brand new card? 600 MHz core/ 700 MHz memory clocks (Apple will probably underclock it though ) and 12 pixel pipes and great bang-for-buck makes the X1650 Pro the card of choice.

The iMac is a desktop computer and Apple's only desktop computer. It should offer desktop performance, end of. What use is a crippled desktop, with all the problems of a mobile form factor but none of the advantages, to anyone? You might as well buy a Macbook.

You mean only all-in-one. And how is it crippled? You want the GMA 950 from a MacBook?

What would be competitive:

MB: 1.83 and 2.0Ghz Merom, Integrated graphics
MBP: 2-2.33Ghz Merom, X1800
iMac 2.4-2.66Ghz Conroe, X1800 and LCD res upgrade
Mac Mini: 1.83Ghz Allendale (going to be much cheaper than Merom, so if they can they will put one in) Integrated graphics
Mac Pro: Dual 2.0-3.0Ghz Xeons

MB: What I said
MBP: What I said
iMac: You'll be pushing up prices as well as getting into Mac Pro's territory. A low-end X1800 is a possibilty but considering Apple's track record for graphics cards, unlikely.
Mac Mini: If you like liquid Mac Minis then sure I have even suggested that an Allendale Core 2 Duo along with a 3.5" HD should be put in the Mini but it would require a case redesign.
Mac Pro: It's already like that.

P.S. And you obviously didn't read what I said about cost of going from a 1.83 GHz Yonah to a 2.4 Ghz Conroe.

 

[BeefUK]

Just looked at the shpping dates for the Core 2 Duo's listed on the dell site. There's an estimated shipping date of 11th September, so maybe the 5th is a more releastic release date for Apple's merom upgrade, whatever form it may come in.

Recently Apple's made new products avaliable to buy immediately they are announced. So looks like a little more waiting.

I'm hoping for a Macbook with Core 2 Duo 2GHz!!

 

[manu chao]

A lot of (very vocal) people keep complaining about the crappy video cards Apple is using. I have heard these complaints for years now, I have heard them for all models.

I, personally, have seen often enough performance limitations in my daily work related to the processor, I have also fairly often seen performance limitations due to my harddrive. I have rarely seen performance limitations due to my graphics card, maybe sometimes with Expose (big deal ) and possibly with Aperture.

So, getting a faster processor, or moving to a multiprocessor system, getting more RAM (reducing access to the HD) and getting e.g. a RAID system will do much, much more for your performance than getting a better video card, except for those using certain high-end apps and gamers.
But, I do not have a computer to play games, I have a computer to get work done, I am sitting 13 hours a day in front of my computer, zero hours of these doing gaming.

 

[Zadillo]

OK, that's wierd. Who would get angry about having research into what the public wants done for them???

No wonder Nintendo sucks so much.

BTW, Congrats on ur 500 Posts!

I've never heard of Nintendo getting "pissed off" with the public for suggesting ideas, etc. Hell, the people who did the Afterburner mod for the original Gameboy Advance probably helped to convince Nintendo of the right way to do a backlight eventually (in the GBA SP). And the constant calls for Nintendo to add wireless capabilities did lead to built-in wifi on the Nintendo DS and the Wii.

What makes you say Nintendo sucks so much?

As far as "legalities" go, usually corporations do have to generally not take unsolicited ideas, commercials, marketing materials, etc. developed by the public. The reason for this is that they want to avoid being sued later on if they do something similar. I don't know how much that would apply to something like product design, etc. but it all sort of falls into the same general category. But the more obvious examples would be things where, for example, someone designs a new computer and sends it to Apple; Apple eventually releases something quite similar to it, and the person who sent in the design tries to sue them for taking their idea and not paying anything for it.

Not to say that would ever really hold up anyway, but it's why most corporations do generally have that policy of not officially accepting anything unsolicited from outside the company.

-Zadillo

 

[Zadillo]

Damn PowerPC fans.

Apple is INTEL now. We Love Intel Because Stevie Tells Us So.
We hate AMD and IBM. Should Apple ever move to another CPU provider, we will seamlessly transition to hating Intel again. This is the Way of the Mac.

What's so good about G5's anyway? They are slow, too hot, and skull juice.
Why do we love Intel? Because Steve says to, and Core 2 Duo is powerful, cool, not permanently drunk, allows us to run Windows and helps Apple increase its market share.

We love ATi because just like Intel, their products are the best at the moment. We still love nVIDIA because their GPUs are in the Mac Pro.

We love Israel because they make our Core 2 Duos and we love China because they make our Macs. We love California because that's where Our Lord Stevie J is (Don't particularly care about the rest of the US, sorry guys).

We love our Big Cats because they run so fast and look so clean and powerful (Hmmm... Mystery of OS codenames revealed?) and of course because they are not Windows, which are susceptible to breaking...

People who live in Windows shouldn't throw Viruses?

Off track...

Anyway, Rawr to all you PowerPC fanboys (And girls)

Intel 4EVER!

I know this is just a joke, but even so it's stupid, because the implication is that the only reason anyone here might like the chips Intel is coming out with is because they have been brainwashed into liking them now that Apple uses them (i.e. if Apple was still using PowerPC chips, or had switched to AMD, we would all be sitting here talking about how crappy the Core 2 Duo chips are).

I'm sure there are some people like that, but it is insulting to plenty of people here who actually do know something about the various chips that Intel and AMD make and base their opinions on them just on their actual merits and weaknesses.

-Zadillo

 

[gnasher729]

OK, that's wierd. Who would get angry about having research into what the public wants done for them???

No wonder Nintendo sucks so much.

BTW, Congrats on ur 500 Posts!

Very simple. What these companies are all afraid off: You think of some way to improve a Macintosh, or an iPod. You have the same idea as thousand other people, including the guys at Apple. You send the idea to them. They implement the idea - which they developed on their own, independent of what you sent them, and what thousand other people thought of. You see your idea implemented and promptly sue Apple for millions of dollars. The case ends up in front of a jury full of idiots who promptly take your side against the evil corporation and give you millions of dollars.

All that mess can easily be prevented by not accepting any ideas from people who are not paid by the company.

 

[PCMacUser]

Yes, and as someone has already pointed out, if the Core2 can do 20% better with the same power, can't you just throttle your new Core2 MBP down 20% and get a laptop with the same performance of your old one with 20% better battery life?

Talk about not seeing the forest through the trees.

It's quite common in the PC laptop world to do exactly that - using the BIOS to drop the default clock speed and/or voltage of the CPU to extend battery life. But that requires a BIOS which Apples don't have. Perhaps it can be done another way...

 

[AidenShaw]

Tell Apple, not Intel

You're screwing up, intel. We don't want 300 trillion transistors on a 1 nm die. We want longer battery life. Idiots.

Check this table of Core processor power consumptions.

Intel is making Core processors that draw 5.5 watts, Apple is using the versions that draw more than 30 watts.

 

[Eidorian]

Conroe power consumption

I also remember another link where it shows the CPU temperature at 100% load being 50° C. (More then likely with a stock heat sink, fan, and in a BTX case.)

I remember my iMac G5 Rev. B hitting 75° C at 100% load. So there's some room for more heat. I don't know if it'll be as quiet though compared to Yonah.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/219310/

 

[fener]

Expect new Merom-based macs, and a new iPod, on September 18th.

Simple. Apples' current sale for students on getting a MAJOR discount on iPods when you buy a new mac, ends on Friday the 15th. Thus, the following monday, will come the new updates. They wouldn't release before, because they would be cutting their profits even more than they are now.

Not true.

Recent years, updates came right before the end of the promotion.

 

[AidenShaw]

I believe Intel has been having trouble getting the required chipsets out on time to the desktop market.

You can get the chips themselves without much trouble- the retail versions are available at Newegg for the 1.86, 2.13, 2.66, and 2.93 Extreme Core 2 Duo chips, with the sole out of stock chip being the 2.4GHz chip, with an estimated time of arrival being Sept. 1st at 2:30PM.

I was at a local DIY store Saturday, and they had stacks of Core 2 Duo (Conroe) chips in all speeds, and lots of mobos with 965 and 975 chipsets.

It would be unusual for that store to have all that kit if there's a supply problem.

http://www.centralcomputer.com/products.asp?pline=HCPUI

 

[ChickenSwartz]

Not true.

Recent years, updates came right before the end of the promotion.

There is a strategic reason for this. Since there have been some issues with new Macs, this promotion will motivate some buyers not to wait. In the retail world waiting means there is a bigger chance the buyer will go else where (like to Dell or something). I am sure if you look at the profit on a Nano vs. a Mac you will see that if this promotion sells 1 Mac that wouldn't be sold without the promotion makes up for 5 or so Nanos that went with Macs that would have been sold anyway. This promotion is not cutting into Apple's profits; they are making more money off this.

 

[adamfilip]

You're screwing up, intel. We don't want 300 trillion transistors on a 1 nm die. We want longer battery life. Idiots.

I think you are missing the point
just cause a processor has 300 quadrillion transistors doesnt mean it will consume a huge amount of power.

if they released a memron that ran at 200mhz but lasted 24 hrs. would you buy it.. eventho it would be painfully slow?

its hard to balance Performance demands and power consumption

 

[Multimedia]

BlizzardBomb And I Have The Same Wish-Expectations List

I want to see:

• The MB with a 1.83 GHz and a 2 GHz Core 2 Duo (Merom)
• The 15" MBP with a 2.16 GHz and a 2.33 GHz Core 2 Duo (Merom) and a MR X1800.
• The 17" MBP with a 2.33 GHz Core 2 Duo (Merom) and a MR X1800 XT.
• The 17" iMac with a 1.86 GHz Core 2 Duo (Conroe (Allendale)) and a X1600 Pro 256 MB.
• The 20" iMac with a 2.13 GHz Core 2 Duo (Conroe (Allendale)) and a X1650 Pro 256 MB.
• Maybe a high-end 20" (possibly 23") iMac with a 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo (Conroe) and a X1800 GTO 256 MB.
• The Mac Mini with a 1.66 GHz and a 1.83 Ghz Core 2 Duo (Merom) with MR X1400 on the high-end model or as a BTO.

Wow. You are reading my mind. This is the closest list of what might happen that I agree with will likely be the case. I think maybe a little faster on the Conroes in iMacs. And I doubt there will be anything other than IG in the mini. But otherwise we agree. In fact in the mobiles we agree exactly 100% the same with what I think they will be.

For a desktop machine those iMac specs are utterly pathetic. A X1600 in 2007? Heck, it was a mediocre card 6 months ago, let alone in 6 months time. A crappy 2Mb cache C2D and both slow as hell compared to what every other desktop manufacturer will be offering?

The iMac is a desktop computer and Apple's only desktop computer. It should offer desktop performance, end of. What use is a crippled desktop, with all the problems of a mobile form factor but none of the advantages, to anyone? You might as well buy a Macbook.

If Apple released an iMac with those specs you would have to be totally retarded to buy one. They will be using the same processors as everyone else with C2D and will have no excuse for offering crappy specs.

What would be competitive:

MB: 1.83 and 2.0Ghz Merom, Integrated graphics
MBP: 2-2.33Ghz Merom, X1800
iMac 2.4-2.66Ghz Conroe, X1800 and LCD res upgrade
Mac Mini: 1.83Ghz Allendale (going to be much cheaper than Merom, so if they can they will put one in) Integrated graphics
Mac Pro: Dual 2.0-3.0Ghz Xeons

But I do have to agree with Manic Mouse as well regarding the iMac speeds & graphics.

iMac: You'll be pushing up prices as well as getting into Mac Pro's territory. A low-end X1800 is a possibilty but considering Apple's track record for graphics cards, unlikely.
Mac Mini: If you like liquid Mac Minis then sure I have even suggested that an Allendale Core 2 Duo along with a 3.5" HD should be put in the Mini but it would require a case redesign.

P.S. And you obviously didn't read what I said about cost of going from a 1.83 GHz Yonah to a 2.4 Ghz Conroe.

Well for one thing, Apple doesn't pay street prices. iMacs will only have 2 cores until Kentsfield. So I think it's fair to expct aggressive Conroe speed in the iMac due to the 2 core limitation. iMacs need to be about the same speed as Mac Pros because they only have 2 cores.

 

[mrgazpacho]

Santa Rosa

Speaking of wish expectations Multimedia;

I know you're hangin' out for Santa Rosa. The article mentions that it's expected in early 2007. Do you think that would be the date for official announcement of production-standard architecture, or actual availability announcement?

Seems very early to be shipping...

I could go out in September and get a Merom notebook, but I don't mind waiting 6 months for Santa Rosa to hit the street.

 

[BlizzardBomb]

And I doubt there will be anything other than IG in the mini. But otherwise we agree. In fact in the mobiles we agree exactly 100% the same with what I think they will be.

The MR X1400 is more of a wish than a prediction. It would help close the gap between Mac Mini and Mac Pro.

 

[rtdunham]

I believe the 2.33 GHz Merom chip debuted at the same price as the 2.16 GHz Yonah when it was released. The prices of MBPs certainly haven't fallen. Apple has just been enjoying the extra profits from Intel's price drops of the past few months.

good information, logical thought.

do you think apple's $100M payoff to Creative*, and possible need to restate financial information for recent quarters/years because of questionable executive compensation, make the company more reluctant than might otherwise have been the case to intro new chips that are, in the beginning more costly and thus will reduce profits?

*--i know, i know, it's only 1% of apple's cash reserves. But that's not meaningless money: trust me, companies make plenty of strategic decisions that affect their products' features, support quality, whatever, over amounts far less than $100M.

 

[Apple Corps]

Simple. Apples' current sale for students on getting a MAJOR discount on iPods when you buy a new mac, ends on Friday the 15th. Thus, the following monday, will come the new updates. They wouldn't release before, because they would be cutting their profits even more than they are now.

Are you sure that discount applies to the NEW Merom based Macs - I don't think so?

 

[Apple Corps]

good information, logical thought.

do you think apple's $100M payoff to Creative*, and possible need to restate financial information for recent quarters/years because of questionable executive compensation, make the company more reluctant than might otherwise have been the case to intro new chips that are, in the beginning more costly and thus will reduce profits?

*--i know, i know, it's only 1% of apple's cash reserves. But that's not meaningless money: trust me, companies make plenty of strategic decisions that affect their products' features, support quality, whatever, over amounts far less than $100M.

Why are you saying the new chips will be more costly??? All reports indicate that Merom will release at the same cost as Yonah.

 

[Cygnus311]

OK, that's wierd. Who would get angry about having research into what the public wants done for them???

No wonder Nintendo sucks so much.

BTW, Congrats on ur 500 Posts!

Nintendo sucks? You must not have payed attention to E3 this year.