Ohio liberals, don't breathe too deeply.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thomas Veil, Feb 22, 2005.

  1. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #1
    Good Lord.

    As if it wasn't bad enough that Ohio was the state that put Bush over the top, now this ding-dong wants to officially sanction limitations on free speech.

    It takes a lot of chutzpah to propose something like this, but the neo-cons are, let's face it, emboldened to try to get away with stuff like this.

    This figures to be just the latest assault in a state where the governor and the state legislature have been Republican for many, many years now...where (not coincidentally) the economy has been driven into the ground...where gay marriages are now forbidden by law. (Apparently Ohio aspires to become Alabama, circa 1950. [​IMG])

    I hope to God they're right about this thing being DOA, because if it passes, this brazen attempt to close the open minds of young people (and thus control future elections) could be coming to a state near you.

    Polarizing, indoctrinating link
     
  2. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #2
    Free Speech......................................Govt going crazy because one party runs it all at the moment. These guys sit on their hands waiting to pass any new kind of law to restrict society yet again and we can create a few more law breakers for the Police state system. Next thing you know is big brother is everywhere and its no longer about the people its about big brother. What kills me are the poles on cnn and seems many of these zealots would be happy with the quasimilitarychurchstate!
     
  3. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #3
    The mere thought of such restrictions is antithetical to the very essence of academia.

    This lawmaker should be publicly whipped.
     
  4. jadam macrumors 6502a

    jadam

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    #4
    I hope this does get passed and I hope it gets sent to the supreme court...
     
  5. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #5
    I think it's just quid pro quo.

    We've already taken the intelligence out of politicians.

    Might as well take politics out of the intelligent.
     
  6. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #6
    :) aint that the truth. It scares me too think about how these guys are trashing our rights, liberty and freedoms while professing to bring these same rights, freedoms and liberties to other countries.
     
  7. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #7
    What gets me is they're closing in on all sides. They've got all three branches of government under their control. They've cowed the mainstream media and dominated the rest with right-wing TV and radio, which they use to propagandize. They frequently keep protesters in pens. Their "anti-terrorist" legislation allows them to peek at what kind of books you read, what kind of web sites you visit, etc. They influence elections with lies hiding under the guise of free speech. And now they want to make sure that young people don't pick up any "bad ideas" too.

    I see this as closing off one of the last "loopholes" in their dominance of the public debate. College kids, if they'd voted in slightly larger numbers in Ohio, could've prevented another Bush presidency. So this is being done because the vote in Ohio was too close for comfort for the Republicans. Apparently the game is not yet rigged enough to insure them a victory.
     
  8. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #8
    Restricting free speech so that some people won't feel uncomfortable... what's that called again?

    Oh, that's right -- political correctness!
     
  9. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #9
    Think of all the folks through history who fought and died for our free speech and then we elect Knucklehead Politicians who wants to vote it away. I still say we have more to fear from our own Govt then we do much else. Garbage like this proves it to me everyday. Govt wants to tell us to how think,eat,breath and live. Last thing we need is some stupid conservative passing reactionary laws because of one loudmouth professor. Debate makes us strong quelling free speech makes us weak.
     
  10. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #10
    How about a law saying that polititians can't stray off topic as well? I mean, if it's good for one government employee, it's good for all of them, right? I'd like to see how THAT goes over!

    And while we're at it, how about a law preventing impressionable youth from being indoctrinated with conservative ideology in the workplace, which, as we know, is overwhelmingly conservative. At least from any company that recieves federal monies or exploits federal tax loopholes there can be no penalizing anyone for opposing views etc.... :rolleyes:
     
  11. dsharits macrumors 68000

    dsharits

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    #11
    Wait a sec. If this was the other way around, you guys would see no problem with squashing the free speech rights of the classroom. I know this for a fact, because it's happened before. How about when prayer was made illegal in schools? Liberals say that prayer might be offensive to someone of a different religion. It's all about equal rights and recognition of all beliefs, right? But now that it goes the other way, it is an abomination against the right of free speech, and it's not in line with the Constitution. You all say that you are fighting for free speech and the rights of the American people. You all are completely content if a liberal agenda is being taught in the schools and colleges, but the minute someone steps up and mentions the "G" word or defends Christian morals or beliefs, you immediately jump down his throat saying that it would make people with other religious beliefs uncomfortable. The truth is, you liberals are intent on pushing your ideas into students' heads, while not allowing the slightest hint of conservative values to disturb it, otherwise it would be unfair to other religions, you say. But as soon as someone tries to stop your ideas from being taught, it becomes a violation of free speech. Thank you for showing us your true colors. Now I can see what demoralized hypocrites and outright liars you really are.

    Daniel
     
  12. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #12
    Wrong Free speech is just that. No spin. Now you want to change issues talking about schools but they have gone downhill since god and discipline have been removed and soon they will try to remove patriotism. whole nother subject dsharits (DISCLAIMOR) patriotism has nothing to do with the Patriot Act.
     
  13. dsharits macrumors 68000

    dsharits

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    #13
    I'm in total agreement with you on the fact that free speech is an American right, and it is being taken away in this situation. The problem that I have is when people say it's okay in one situation, but as soon as they are cornered, it is wrong. But yes, free speech belongs to all Americans, and nobody should be able to take it away.

    Daniel
     
  14. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #14
    nice try.

    free discussion of religion in a classroom setting isn't the same as a ritualized prayer ceremony. the former is fine, the latter is not.

    if there were something like the Liberal's Creed, and a school system wanted to force its students to recite it at the beginning of class, i would have a problem with that.

    i have no problem w/ free discussion of religion, just as i have no problem w/ free discussion of politics.
     
  15. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #15
    There is no Liberal Agenda. Liberals do not exist as a cohesive group with a set of priorities used for the whole lot of them. This is a MYTH perpetuated as propoganda by the neocons.
     
  16. dsharits macrumors 68000

    dsharits

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    #16
    Fine, have it your way. Democratic Agenda.

    Daniel
     
  17. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #17
    Come on, this 100% pure political correctness in action. This is precisely the kind of nonsense the right has been accusing the left of perpetrating for decades. So now the shoe is planted firmly on the other foot. Kind of painful, isn't it?
     
  18. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #18
    As opposed to un-democratic?

    I have never understood why so many people are unable or unwilling to grasp anything beyond a binary concept.

    If you are anti-republican, you must therefore be pro-democrat. Many people are actually anti-republican and anti-democratic, yet still pro-america.

    Even more illustrative, is the tendency to extrapolate of a single issue. You're anti-abortion? well, you must be a Conservative. You're against the War in Iraq? You must be a Liberal.

    And on and on at such a race to the lowest-common denominator, that all rationality, critical-thinking and understanding is lost in a sea of self-righteousness and rhetoric.

    The scopes are so narrow, compartmentalized and ideologically-driven as to be incoherent taken as a whole, and certainly not effective.

    Is there to be a tit-for-tat, partisan ideological sniping for everything, leading to two necessary conclusions - the dissolving of all regulatory apparati (and anarchy), or the "corpse in armor", suffocated by the total legislation/control of all behavior (totalitarianism)?

    Is it not possible to judge things on their own merit(s), without the endless comparisons diverting the issue.

    For the record, I do not like this bill because the use of the wording "controversial" is vague, and ill-defined, as are those who judge such matters. This should bother "Conservatives" as well as "Liberals", as both are likely to be caught in the dragnet. But that might be too thoughtful to consider...
    bah.
     
  19. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #19
    Let them pass it. When people realize that Ohio's schools are restricted and required by law to teach conservative ideology students will stop attending universities in Ohio, the best and brightest will move out of the state and the problem will solve itself.

    Not before taking the rest of us down with them, but that's another thread...
     
  20. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #20
    But that's not what would probably happen and subsequently what I am worried about.

    Sure, it might to a degree, but I feel that there would just be a deluge of litigation, suspensions, firings - in short - total paralysis of the institutions of higher learning. Or, alternately a curriculum so bland as to be useless, rendering the University's useless at their task.

    It will make educational arena like the political arena - which is to say, crap.

    This affects conservatives and democrats alike, as it strikes at a cornerstone that underpines Democracy.
     
  21. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #21
    Nice try buddy, but I would have just as much of a problem with either side forcing their views on kids. I'm sure you've heard about the several cases where teachers have been disciplined/reprimanded for espousing anti-war views in class, haven't you? If not, I'd suggest you read up a little.

    And 'you guys' have just as much of a problem with what you call 'free speech' when it's on the other foot. Do you think it's ok for a teacher to wear a Wiccan pentagram in class? How about a crucifix? Exactly. You've got no problem with one, yet 'you guys' would eagerly protest the other and say 'theliberals' are out to indoctrinate our kids. Yet a teacher goes into class wearing a crucifix and it's 'religious freedom'. 'You guys' can't have it both ways.
     
  22. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #22
  23. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #23
    No, it's not. It's about matters of faith having no place in an academic setting.

    I went to Catholic schools all my life and even they weren't stupid enough to mix religion class with science/reading/history/math classes.

    And now I can see you've taken the plunge into outright trolling.

    If your accusatory tone and namecalling is going to be a theme, I think the forum would be better off if you'd just bugger off.
     
  24. chanoc macrumors 6502

    chanoc

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    #24
    100 lashes! :D

    I am a Socialist-atheist-quasi-humanist college student, and I never got my views from the Alaska State academic environment. I know there are professors with views similiar to mine, yet they are in the natural sciences, anthropology, and philosophy fields. Currently I am finishing an AAS in CIOS, and the carrer academic professors are 90% right-wing. Although in fall '05, I am returning for a BS (or BA) in the "Leftist Anthropology Department". :D
     
  25. StarbucksSam macrumors 65816

    StarbucksSam

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    #25
    Excuse me while I watch Patrick Henry roll over in his grave.
     

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