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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Jan 5, 2005.
Hey, we're no Ukraine.
Interesting to see how this plays/fizzles out.
Still, it is a New Year and I have a fresh batch of hope.
Unless and until someone has some real proof that there is something that can change the results of the election, the elected Democrats really should get on with things. This kind of showboating is great for your base but terrible for independants and moderates whom they desperately need.
I'd like to see local activism keep the spotlight on any voting problems (which there are plenty of to focus on) and the national leadership above it. Certainly every vote needs to be counted, but you look silly telling the GOP to drop their legal challenges in the WA gubernatorial race while simultaneously mounting a challenge to the presidential race in Ohio.
Still, I would like to see some efforts put into this to see what turns up. If anything, this will be useful for future elections. We'll see.
Certainly any instances of voter fraud should be investigated, and I sure don't mind seeing national level polititians on the forefront of that kind of initiative. I'd like to see some people punished for some of the things that happened in Nevada particularly. I'd also like to see some reforms such as any precinct that had more than a 1 hour wait at any point be required to have more ballot machines by the next election.
I just don't want to see any effort made to try and question the Ohio results in Congress without real hard proof. It's counterproductive.
Well, it did work for Ukraine and here in WA. You never know. People dislike the Dems because they seem weak. Kerry, in particular, kept trying to take the high road instead of fighting back. You'd think he would have learned his lesson, considering it's probably what cost him the election. Unfortunetly, especially in times like these, people don't want smart... they want strong. Even if it's just the appearance of strength.
Of course, this could blow up in their faces. But really, what more can they lose. I'm not getting my hopes up, but it probably couldn't hurt to at least try. You never know.
If we don't fix the problems now, when?
If we don't investigate the problems now, how will we know how to fix them?
How many more elections must we "let it go" and "get over it?"
I think one fraud- and problem-riddled election should have been enough. We let the last one go and now we have a second.
There was a hand recount in Ohio and it produced the same result, a margin way too large for Kerry to overcome. The Dems need to get over it.
If there's a state where things seemed fishy it was Pennsylvania, the margin of victory for Kerry was MUCH slimmer there and there were reports of some irregular activities going on in eastern PA.
Sen. Boxer to Challenge Ohio Vote
FWIW, I don't believe anyone on the democrat side of this issue is really doing this to try to overturn the election. We need to fix this system so that we can actually be the bastion of democracy we purport to be.
Like I said, Dems are hovering between fighting (but coming off as sore losers) or taking the high road (but appearing as weak).
I find it funny that whoever is losing will talk about how every vote should count, but whoever is winning will just tell the other side to get over it.
at this point, for the 2004 election anyway, it doesn't matter. Congress has certified it.
i noted w/ interest that on ABC News, Jennings gave it only a quick mention. about 3 sentences, w/ no photos, graphics, or expert. but the story about the mother who murdered 5 children, well, that got a lot of time, footage, etc.
you'd think something as big this dispute would get some damn coverage. unless, of course, the corporate-owned news outlets are worried about their profits. grrrr....
part 1 of 2
i hear a lot of "get over it" and "there's not enough votes to matter anyway." this document is the executive summary from Representative John Conyers, Jr., the Ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, about the irregularities. tens or perhaps hundreds of thousands of votes were affected in ohio.
and no one really seems to care. this is how democracy dies.
part 2 of 2