Old Exposé in Snow Leopard

[Shodan]

cmd h hides the entire program. Not the same thing.

Precisely right.

I can't imagine anyone who would want to not hide a program they are not using?

The only scenario Hide would not cater for would be multiple Safari Windows which in any case the user would be using otherwise they should be using Tabs.

Minimising in OS X is meant for documental use - Snow Leopard's Exposé simply aids that use by adding functionality with Dock Exposé.

 

[devburke]

I'm sorry, but some of the people here should return to their PC's.

"I hate the fact that Exposé shows my minimised Windows"

Exposé shows all Windows in use, minimised Windows are still being used - minimising them simply clears desk space.

If you want to hide a window, cmd+H is your friend!

C'mon people, this is OS X, not ****ing Windows.

Snow Leopard's Exposé was a big improvement over the original - do not expect Apple to revert change's to accommodate people who cannot use their Mac properly.

Wow.

Telling people that expect OS X to behave like Windows that they’re better off using Windows is one thing, but that was the most blatant, closed-minded, overly loyal, ass-kissing fanboyism I’ve ever seen.

 

[Shodan]

Wow.

Telling people that expect OS X to behave like Windows that they’re better off using Windows is one thing, but that was the most blatant, closed-minded, overly loyal, ass-kissing fanboyism I’ve ever seen.

Wow, you're an idiot.

It's fanboyistic to tell people to stop expecting OS X to behave like Windows?

People like you are why IT in general put's people off it.

Live and let live, if I want to workship the ground Apple walk (that, I do not) then I will - what the **** has it got to do with you?

Now play with the traffic Mr. Martyr.

 

[professorjay]

I'm sorry, but some of the people here should return to their PC's.

"I hate the fact that Exposé shows my minimised Windows"

Exposé shows all Windows in use, minimised Windows are still being used - minimising them simply clears desk space.

If you want to hide a window, cmd+H is your friend!

C'mon people, this is OS X, not ****ing Windows.

Snow Leopard's Exposé was a big improvement over the original - do not expect Apple to revert change's to accommodate people who cannot use their Mac properly.

How is this expecting a Windows behavior? What parallel is there to expose in Windows? I don't even get your point.

Tiger and regular Leopard did not show minimized windows in expose. It made more logical sense imho. I think it would've been nice if Apple left an option in there to show minimized windows or not.

But evidently, because of this single issue, I'm an imbecile who doesn't know how to operate a computer because I thought Apple had it right the first time. I should accept everything Apple does. And I should do what everyone tells me. And Apple should change their slogan from 'think different' to 'think like THIS'.

And why do some people get anal and bring up Windows at every turn? The irony of Apple fanboys is they talk about Microsoft all the time.

 

[jpkh]

Simple way to say it... Really disapointed, I just yesterday Installed SL and now already regretting it. This new suxposé is just horrible. The whole meaning of it is lost.

Earlier I was able easily to exposé program windowses on every spaces desktop separately and it was easy to find correct window to click on. And if was not sure which one, you could always press alt key to see titles if needed.

damn now when i have mozilla and spread on three different desktops, every time when i exposé, i see all mozilla windows on every desk... I just want to see those windows on that desk NOT ALL DAMMIT...

I need to say that Apple quality is getting lower and lower

I really hope that they fix this exposé issue, just give a switch to system preferences that "Use old exposé: Y/n?: Y"

I also have a lot windowses open on many desktops and basically now it's totally impossible to manage them.

Just cannot figure it.....

Hmm I wonder where I did put my old Leopard disks

--jp

 

[TheSpaz]

Simple way to say it... Really disapointed, I just yesterday Installed SL and now already regretting it. This new suxposé is just horrible. The whole meaning of it is lost.

Earlier I was able easily to exposé program windowses on every spaces desktop separately and it was easy to find correct window to click on. And if was not sure which one, you could always press alt key to see titles if needed.

damn now when i have mozilla and spread on three different desktops, every time when i exposé, i see all mozilla windows on every desk... I just want to see those windows on that desk NOT ALL DAMMIT...

I need to say that Apple quality is getting lower and lower

I really hope that they fix this exposé issue, just give a switch to system preferences that "Use old exposé: Y/n?: Y"

I also have a lot windowses open on many desktops and basically now it's totally impossible to manage them.

Just cannot figure it.....

Hmm I wonder where I did put my old Leopard disks

--jp

I think overall Apple improved Exposé, but I think they should make the windows relative sizes again but keep the same layout.

I think Exposé *looks* better now and it doesn't bother me all that much. I actually use it more now than I used to. I like being able to drag a file to the Dock, have the windows appear, and then be able to drag into any window I want.

 

[drossad]

The number one reason why people use Exposé is to find a window they have lost. The second one is getting on overview.

Oh... I didn't know you did research on this matter dyn? Wow! I'm glad an expert is here to tell us what we use expose for!

Before Snow Leopard both things were something Exposé did really really badly.

That's your opinion. I think it did them very well.

 

[devburke]

Wow, you're an idiot.

It's fanboyistic to tell people to stop expecting OS X to behave like Windows?

People like you are why IT in general put's people off it.

Live and let live, if I want to workship the ground Apple walk (that, I do not) then I will - what the **** has it got to do with you?

Now play with the traffic Mr. Martyr.

No, I agree, I also tell people not to expect OS X to behave exactly like Windows and be open to change. But in this case, we’re experienced OS X users who loved its old way, and NOBODY is asking for Windows behavior! We’re asking for OS X (Panther, Tiger, and Leopard) behavior! We’re not complaining about a switch from Windows to OS X, we’re talking about Tiger/Leopard to Snow Leopard.

In fact, I don’t remember anyone even mentioning Windows or Windows behavior.

 

[lordthistle]

I think overall Apple improved Exposé, but I think they should make the windows relative sizes again but keep the same layout.

I think Exposé *looks* better now and it doesn't bother me all that much. [...]

There are several improvements, but would it be possible to keep relative sizes and keep the same grid-based layout? I think it's not: by keeping relative sizes in a clean grid some windows would become too small. (But may be I simply cannot imagine it).

- thistle

 

[ProfMonnitoff]

It's unlikely, unfortunately, that Exposé will ever change back, as every interface change in OSX seems to be making it more touch friendly, but it's worth trying anyway.

With the old Exposé I could usually find the window I was looking for before they had even finished moving into their position. Now I often need a few seconds. That's really all there is to it for me

 

[AAPLaday]

Hate it hate it hate it lol. This for me is a classic example of changing something just for the sake of it as opposed to improving it, and in my opinion the worst thing about Snow Leopard. I never know where the open programs i have running are going to jump to when i use it.

 

[feuerschlange]

My conclusion after some time with the New Exposé:

…
With the old Exposé I could usually find the window I was looking for before they had even finished moving into their position. Now I often need a few seconds. …

This is exactly my issue with the new Exposé.
After trying very hard, to erase the perfect integration of the old Exposé from my workflow and force the new one in I have found the following issues:

Unresponsiveness interrupts workflow, forces to a full stop and reflect:
- the waiting time of Exposé, to show up all windows brakes my workflow The moment the new Exposé shows up on the screen, I usually had already made my pick in the old Exposé and moved on in my work, whereas with the clunky new one, I am fully interrupted in my work, have to wait for a software, reflect, what I was going to do, make a very slow and reflective choice by name and content (instead of the unconcious, quick decision from shape and remembering of window position with visual aid of a "spreading pattern").

Minimised Windows in New Exposé:
- the completely redundant displayed minimised windows (which are too tiny, to can not be glanced on an instant anyway) are distracting and take real estate without being of any benefit to me

"Grab and Drop with Exposé" completely broken now:
- the former quick pick of an item under my mouse coursor by hitting "space" is exchanged for a very confusing function of "quickview" (as quickview is now necessary, to identify the all unified different windows, displayed without visual aid of spreading them on the screen in a smooth motion, rather than snapping them instantly into view after invoking "show all windows"). In the old Exposé I routinely grabbed an item from one window with the mouse button hold, invoked "show all windows" by a mouse swing into a "hot corner", placed my mouse over the desired new window in Exposé, hit the "space bar", to switch to the new window and dropped my item into the new window. This immensely usable workflow is now COMPLETELY BROKEN.

New Exposé means No Exposé:
I see myself more and more, to not use Exposé anymore and arrange my windows in a fashion, I did in Windows OSs before using a Mac, to be able, to do all operations without the need of Exposé. This is much slower and of course much less comfortable with all the downsides of working with many open windows at once without a proper tool, to get a handle on them.

So please Apple - give the fully working Old Exposé back as an option! It really was the most streamlined efficiency improvement when working in a professional multi monitor, multi windows environment. The New Exposé makes things worse. It brakes ALL principles what made Exposé so useful for my work.

@ Macrumours readers:
Is there any sign of a 3rd party, bringing the old Exposé as an OS add on? I need to have this productivity improving tool back!

 

[devburke]

This is exactly my issue with the new Exposé.
After trying very hard, to erase the perfect integration of the old Exposé from my workflow and force the new one in I have found the following issues:

Unresponsiveness interrupts workflow, forces to a full stop and reflect:
- the waiting time of Exposé, to show up all windows brakes my workflow The moment the new Exposé shows up on the screen, I usually had already made my pick in the old Exposé and moved on in my work, whereas with the clunky new one, I am fully interrupted in my work, have to wait for a software, reflect, what I was going to do, make a very slow and reflective choice by name and content (instead of the unconcious, quick decision from shape and remembering of window position with visual aid of a "spreading pattern").

Minimised Windows in New Exposé:
- the completely redundant displayed minimised windows (which are too tiny, to can not be glanced on an instant anyway) are distracting and take real estate without being of any benefit to me

"Grab and Drop with Exposé" completely broken now:
- the former quick pick of an item under my mouse coursor by hitting "space" is exchanged for a very confusing function of "quickview" (as quickview is now necessary, to identify the all unified different windows, displayed without visual aid of spreading them on the screen in a smooth motion, rather than snapping them instantly into view after invoking "show all windows"). In the old Exposé I routinely grabbed an item from one window with the mouse button hold, invoked "show all windows" by a mouse swing into a "hot corner", placed my mouse over the desired new window in Exposé, hit the "space bar", to switch to the new window and dropped my item into the new window. This immensely usable workflow is now COMPLETELY BROKEN.

New Exposé means No Exposé:
I see myself more and more, to not use Exposé anymore and arrange my windows in a fashion, I did in Windows OSs before using a Mac, to be able, to do all operations without the need of Exposé. This is much slower and of course much less comfortable with all the downsides of working with many open windows at once without a proper tool, to get a handle on them.

So please Apple - give the fully working Old Exposé back as an option! It really was the most streamlined efficiency improvement when working in a professional multi monitor, multi windows environment. The New Exposé makes things worse. It brakes ALL principles what made Exposé so useful for my work.

@ Macrumours readers:
Is there any sign of a 3rd party, bringing the old Exposé as an OS add on? I need to have this productivity improving tool back!

You make a pretty good argument for our case. Did you submit it to http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html?

 

[feuerschlange]

You make a pretty good argument for our case. Did you submit it to http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html?

I submit my findings every time, I post here in this thread and I encourage everyone, not satisfied with the implementation of the New Exposé, to file these complaints to Apple. Do it not only once, do it once for every separate argument or finding. Make sure, Apple knows, there are people, who work now less productive, as a very useful tool has been broken for them with a software update.

Inform Apple about your thinking through their communications channel here http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

This is important, as it could well be the only way, to get a properly working (optionally) Exposé back to work.

Thanks for your help.

 

[HLdan]

So please Apple - give the fully working Old Exposé back as an option! It really was the most streamlined efficiency improvement when working in a professional multi monitor, multi windows environment. The New Exposé makes things worse. It brakes ALL principles what made Exposé so useful for my work.

I understand your concerns, sort of, but some of the people here including you seem to act as if only one person at Apple tried the new Expose. I'm certain that they had many people try out SL's new functions and came up with a decision that it would increase productivity. For me, I like the new minimized windows in Expose. You may not like it, but just because you or some people on this forum don't doesn't make you the majority.
It's funny how some people here say the new Expose slowed down their productivity, I would certainly like to know what some of you used before Expose was introduced into OS X?
These little nice functions that Apple and MS add to their OS to "increase productivity" are just add ons. We weren't using them back in the day and people got a long on their computers just fine without them. So please don't treat these features as a requirement to get your work done.

 

[TheSpaz]

I understand your concerns, sort of, but some of the people here including you seem to act as if only one person at Apple tried the new Expose. I'm certain that they had many people try out SL's new functions and came up with a decision that it would increase productivity. For me, I like the new minimized windows in Expose. You may not like it, but just because you or some people on this forum don't doesn't make you the majority.
It's funny how some people here say the new Expose slowed down their productivity, I would certainly like to know what some of you used before Expose was introduced into OS X?
These little nice functions that Apple and MS add to their OS to "increase productivity" are just add ons. We weren't using them back in the day and people got a long on their computers just fine without them. So please don't treat these features as a requirement to get your work done.

People also got along just fine without 2 buttons on the mouse.

Your post doesn't make any sense. It's like you're trying to defend Apple's decision by saying that people should just get used to slowing their work habits. Yeah, obviously before Exposé, people managed their windows manually, but now that you have an easier way to do something, going directly to something less intuitive is kinda backwards don't you think?

I understand where everyone is coming from. To me, I never used Exposé a heck of a lot, but I'm using it more in Snow Leopard... maybe that's why I don't mind it as much as someone who used it as their core navigation system.

I'm more of a hider and minimizer myself. I'll cmd-H or option-click the desktop to see what's in the background. Cmd-Tab is great too.

I basically don't try to leave a lot of overlapping windows all over the place. I keep what I need open, but I hide what I don't wanna look at. Then I minimize stuff I might need later (mostly in the Finder) and Safari always has only one window open at a time anyways... the rest is through tabs.... Same with the Finder and Mail.

I just realized that there's pretty much only 1 window open for every app I have. I collect all my iChats in 1 window, Mail is 1 window, Safari is 1 window, iCal is 1 window, Address Book is 1 window... pretty much everything I use is all done in 1 window. iTunes, iPhoto, Aperture. I guess I just work differently. That's why my cmd-tab and cmd-H is so useful for me.

 

[HLdan]

People also got along just fine without 2 buttons on the mouse.

Your post doesn't make any sense. It's like you're trying to defend Apple's decision by saying that people should just get used to slowing their work habits. Yeah, obviously before Exposé, people managed their windows manually, but now that you have an easier way to do something, going directly to something less intuitive is kinda backwards don't you think?

Slowing people's work habits is subjective. Mine certainly wasn't slowed down, I use Expose and Spaces and every single day and I happen to like the minimized windows in Expose.

I'm not trying to say, accept it or go back to Windows but honestly, the Mac community does get too spoiled with stuff Apple offers and acts like Apple owes them even better when the know they can't get better on any other platform, otherwise they would be using that platform. And before the Linux crowd pours flames my last statement, when I say "better" I'm talking about everything. Software to hardware support, features and functionality. Sorry, can't live my life on open source only.

 

[Blurg]

Instead of submitting feedback using the the feedback website, submit a bug using:

http://bugreport.apple.com

It's most likely to get noticed, and the more people that submit bugs about the new expose, the more likely it will be fixed.

 

[devburke]

I'm not trying to say, accept it or go back to Windows but honestly, the Mac community does get too spoiled with stuff Apple offers and acts like Apple owes them even better when the know they can't get better on any other platform, otherwise they would be using that platform.

In this instance though, we’re not asking for Apple to give us something better, we’re just asking for them not to make it worse.

 

[HLdan]

In this instance though, we’re not asking for Apple to give us something better, we’re just asking for them not to make it worse.

I gotcha, trust me, but "making it worse" is subjective, not everyone feels the same way you do, nor do they feel the same way period. For you, it's the new way is not as productive, for me it's makes my work more productive. Who's right? Neither of us, so you can't say Apple made it worse.

 

[devburke]

I gotcha, trust me, but "making it worse" is subjective, not everyone feels the same way you do, nor do they feel the same way period. For you, it's the new way is not as productive, for me it's makes my work more productive. Who's right? Neither of us, so you can't say Apple made it worse.

But for many of us (clearly, given the length of this thread) it is worse. That’s why we’re asking for an option. You can still use the new way, we’d just like the ability to choose.

 

[klaxamazoo]

So I've tried reinstalling the Leopard version of Expose by importing the .app from the install disk using Pacifist. But it still has the same, crappy Snow Leopard behavior.

Has anyone else with a better knowledge of OSX tried or succeeded in installing the Leopard version of Expose into Snow Leopard?

I don't know enough to really figure it out, but there has to be away. If people can get the Base 2 thing up and running then it should be possible to get the expose working again.

 

[HLdan]

But for many of us (clearly, given the length of this thread) it is worse. That’s why we’re asking for an option. You can still use the new way, we’d just like the ability to choose.

Your point is very well taken and I have no problem with options but you as well as others on this forum need to understand something, "WE" doesn't stand for all of us and "WE" don't make up the Mac community. Too many MR forum members have this mentality that MR makes up all of Apple's customers and what "WE" want means everyone wants it. Not True.

 

[NoSmokingBandit]

I minimise into the applications icon rather than a new one in the dock so i like it, i really like the new expose.

I do this too, but since theres no way to tell if you have a window minimized or not i occasionally find windows in Expose that i had forgotten about earlier. The whole "minimize to dock icon" thing just feels taped on. There needs to be a way to let me know if there are windows minimized without having to use expose.

The whole GUI of OSX has been going downhill since Tiger, imo. Inconsistency is at an all time high, some thing have become more difficult to use (new expose), and our options seem to be limited even more than before. Hopefully apple will stop fawning over the iPhone and start caring about their OS again.

 

[devburke]

Your point is very well taken and I have no problem with options but you as well as others on this forum need to understand something, "WE" doesn't stand for all of us and "WE" don't make up the Mac community. Too many MR forum members have this mentality that MR makes up all of Apple's customers and what "WE" want means everyone wants it. Not True.

Fair enough. And I don’t see Apple giving us a choice in this one, realistically. But I do think that pretty much anybody would agree that some of the window scaling in new Exposé is absolutely ridiculous.

I miss being able to hit Exposé to just get a glance at how things are going in another window (progress in a download, iChat buddy list, etc) without switching apps. Since windows scaled proportionally, none of them got too much smaller (unless there were enough windows that they all had to), so I could get a pretty decent look at any open window. Now I can only do that for the smaller windows (such as iChat buddy lists), while Safari windows, iTunes, and anything else with a big window shrinks down to an unreadable size.