Ollie North is coming to my church

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by job, Aug 12, 2003.

  1. job
    macrumors 68040

    job

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    #1
    Yep.

    Can you believe it? They invited him as a guest speaker. I think it's in the next week, so I'll have to update this thread after it happens. I wonder what he'll talk about. Iran...? Nahhhh... :p
     
  2. macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #2
    Re: Ollie North is coming to my church

    Why anyone wants to hear what that slippery old felon has to say is beyond me. But it is a church and confession is said to be good for the soul ....;)
     
  3. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #3
    yeah, definitely update us on that. any idea what the inviters are expecting of him?
     
  4. macrumors 68020

    sparkleytone

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    #4
    Re: Re: Ollie North is coming to my church

    you know, for the life of me i cannot understand why people love this man. a criminal and a pathological liar, this man still seems to enslave peoples minds into thinking he is a great and honorable man.
     
  5. macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #5
    Re: Re: Re: Ollie North is coming to my church

    Probably 'cuz he "took one for the team" and protected his superiors. Not a plus in my book, but whatever. Somehow G. Gordon Liddy has similiar status. G. Go Figure.
     
  6. job
    thread starter macrumors 68040

    job

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    #6
    No idea. I don't even know why they invited him.
     
  7. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #7
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Ollie North is coming to my church

    Radicals always have their favorite bomb-throwers. Same goes for the far left and right wings.
     
  8. macrumors 6502a

    macphoria

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    #8
    The whole Iran-Contra scandal was huge controversy and as mactastic mentioned, he took one for the team. I read little bit about this and apparently when Col. North travelled overseas making secret deals, he carried poison or some means to kill himself in case he was kidnapped and tortured. It is debatable whether he is good or bad, but he is definately a consummate soldier.
     
  9. macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #9
    I would respectfully suggest that "consummate" soldiers recognize the supremacy of the law. North knowingly went about subverting the law of the land. It doesn't matter that his superiors ordered him to do it, because soldiers aren't suppose to follow unlawful orders.
     
  10. macrumors 6502a

    macphoria

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    #10
    I don't think soldiers are meant to question whether an order is lawful or unlawful. We went to war with Iraq without UN resolution. Some countries supported us, while majority of the world did not. To some extent this could be considered unlawful.

    My point is, soldiers follow given orders. Whether his/her action was right or wrong is debatable. But carrying out his/her duty being part of consummate soldier is not debatable.
     
  11. macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #11
    The Nuremburg trials of Nazi soldiers after WWII made it very clear that soldiers have a responsibility to not follow unlawful orders.

    I should also point out that North has never stated he only broke the law because of orders from superiors - he was an active willing participant.
     
  12. macrumors 6502a

    macphoria

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    #12
    First, North did not participate in a genocide. It was arms deal and money channeling. Second, he was willing participant because he willingly followed orders, very fact that I pointed out earlier about soldiers carrying out duties. Idea that he carried means to end his own life as contingency plan for getting captured just because he wanted to participate in said covert mission, which seems to be the context of your "willing participant", does not make sense.

    Obviously, we differ in our views on this matter. Lets just say we agree to disagree.
     
  13. macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #13
    The principles established at Nuremburg are in no way limited to charges of genocide. He was a willing participant because he was and is a "true believer" that what the Reagan/Bush administration did in circumventing the law of the land was right. Regardless of whether he was willing to take one for the "team" (including taking poison) does not change the fact that his military oath mandated he not follow what he knew were illegal orders. Indeed, we will disagree.
     
  14. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #14
    north considered secrectly bypassing congressional decree and oversight "neat."

    i think it's "neat" that he got caught. seems he never caught on that what he did was wrong, though.
     
  15. macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #15
    The whole Iran/Contra affair was, IMO, the most dangerous abuse of power I've seen in my lifetime watching some eight administrations (I was too small to pay much attention to Ike & JFK). North and Poindexter were the principal architects of a scheme to basically fund and authorize a war without the consent or knowledge of either Congress or the American people. Very "neat" indeed, Ollie. :eek: :mad:
     
  16. macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #16
    "I was just following orders" is not an acceptable defense for a soldier anymore. Nuremburg made that quite clear.
     
  17. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #17
    Was North "just following orders" when he lied to Congress?
     
  18. macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #18
    That's probably what he's going to church to confess.
     
  19. macrumors 6502

    FriarTuck

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    #19
    Ollie would have been better off with sudden complete memory loss, like the smartest woman in the world.
     
  20. macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #20
    North's lawyer did much better. They got a immunity agreement for his testimony before Congress and then convinced a judge that the special prosecutor couldn't have convicted him without information from his testimony. If Congress hadn't been so stupid Ollie would still be behind bars today.
     
  21. Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #21
    when he lied to congress, he crossed the line

    at that point the military base where i live had its marines get ordered to shun him and not talk about him...marines are not trained to be felons and lie to american authorities...he really gave the marine corps a black eye...the good thing is that people realize that lt. col. north is not your average marine

    i had a friend who once lied in court in a divorce case and many years later when he was a marine, he got disqualified for work similar to what north was doing because of that...the corps holds to the highest standards in the military and always have...we are in a country where the authority of the civilian government is above that of the highest officers in the military...general macarthur tried to breach that line and as well liked as he was, he got fired
     
  22. job
    thread starter macrumors 68040

    job

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    #22
    Alright, here's what I've found out so far:

    1) He's coming on Sept. 7th, so that's roughly two weeks from yesterday.

    2) He's coming for a Sept. 11th rememberance service. I can't understand why they would invite him to something like that, but I guess they have their reasons.
     
  23. macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #23
    Your point that most marines would not take the course North took is well taken. He crossed the line not only when he lied to congress, but also when he orchestrated the circumvention of the Borland amendment. It was the law of the land that funds could not go to support the Contras, but North and his buddies figured they knew better and didn't need to worry about such silly things as laws.
     
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    jefhatfield

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    #24
    and he shoveled at least 40k in taxpayers money for improvements into his own house

    wait...i wonder if i can get ollie to get me some of the california recall monies to help me get double glass windows for my house...or should i try and track down any marine lt. colonel:p :p

    ollie should get a business card that says, "officer, gentleman, and procurer of government slush funds for personal use and getting sexy secretaries to shred your papers and give you hummers in your hummer"
     
  25. macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #25
    I'd forgotten all about his secretary! Wasn't her name Fawn Hall? I think she was the first republican woman in the public eye who didn't remind me of Margaret Mitchell or Phyllis Schlafly.

    I think you need to talk directly to Ollie about those windows - it seemed to be a pretty specialized order. ;)
     

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