OpenGL gaming

Discussion in 'Games' started by The Dreaming, Feb 24, 2004.

  1. The Dreaming macrumors member

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    Jan 31, 2004
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    Chicago, USA
    #1
    OpenGL is built into the core of Mac OSX right? Then why does it seem that OpenGL games run better on a PC? Especially when I thought PC’s just use OpenGL extensions. Is it a poor job of porting? I haven’t played Quake III, but I know it’s OpenGL, so does it run better on a Mac? Also, why did Half-Life not appear on the Mac platform? I read it was because the Mac version had to be too watered down to play well. –But it’s an OpenGL game! How could a game written in OpenGL not perform well on an OpenGL system? Will OpenGL 2.0 correct this?

    I’m completely not trolling, but I am frustrated with this situation. Can someone please help me understand this? Am I missing something?
     
  2. Maclarny macrumors 6502

    Maclarny

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2003
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    MN
    #2
    As for the lack of games for Mac it's simply because there is honestly not much of a market there for mac games. This is why the porting houses only pick up the top games. OpenGL is getting better on the Mac. In fact, the next Panther update (OS 10.3.3) is showing 5-7 percent increases in frame rates for all OpenGL games!
     
  3. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #3
    Quake III runs quite well on a Mac because the research was done so that it utilises Mac OS technologies properly and efficiently.

    You should really search for threads on Half-Life--there are plenty already.

    While OpenGL is a huge part of imaging on Mac OS X, it's a matter of opinion on what constitutes the core as to whether it's part of the core. It does not violate the sanctity of the kernel, in any case. http://developer.apple.com/macosx/architecture/ It exists quite far down but the UNIX part of Mac OS X can run without it.

    OpenGL games don't always rely greatly on the graphics card or the graphics subsystems. Sometimes, they're quite processor intensive and if the code isn't efficient, the game will run poorly regardless. Often, PCs simply have the raw power to ignore the inefficiency. Macs, in general, cannot ignore performance constraints. OpenGL will continue to improve and games will become better on Macintosh and with version 2.0, it will become better everywhere with more functionality.
     
  4. The Dreaming thread starter macrumors member

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    Jan 31, 2004
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    #4
    Thanks for taking the time to respond

    Given an adequate developer base, is OpenGL as powerful an API as DirectX? -Does either have an advantage?
     
  5. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #5
    Direct3D (the equivalent part of DirectX) has momentum on Windows and that's a lot. Microsoft has violated the safe path to provide faster graphics performance and that helps crash things. With the latest shaders in Direct3D/X 9, it can do more complex scenes than OpenGL, version 1.3, at least.

    Also, the OpenGL ARB is slow to move, so changes take a lot longer than they do at Microsoft.

    OpenGL does have the advantage in cross-platform (read business/scientific) work. They will normally pick the most cost effective way to do things and that isn't a different API on each platform.

    As Linux catches on as a game platform, I believe that more independent game developers will choose a single code base using OpenGL. Mac OS X will be caught in its wake. :)
     
  6. unixkid macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    #6
    lol BS!

    i have a dual 1ghz G4 and i get up to 400+fps and my PC friend has a new 2.66ghz P4 and he gets 300+ fps when im the one hosting the game and running an ftp server, a printer server, a web server, and about 9-12 other apps in the background. LOL. i run circles around him. he was speechless! lol
     
  7. The Dreaming thread starter macrumors member

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    #7
    Re: lol BS!

    400fps??? are you playing in a window the size of a keychain? Check again, are you sure you're not getting 100,000fps?
     
  8. LoadRunner macrumors member

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    Dec 20, 2003
    Location:
    Manhaton Beach California
    #8
    I'd like to point out with every release open gl receives a notes-able boost in speed. Maybe 10%, next time another 20%, and so on. For me that's translated in +10fps , +30fps, +40fp. After the 10.3.2 update my dinky dual 500 mrts g4 now time demo at 250fps!

    I'll be the first to admit that open gl in os x is in it's infancy. There are part miss, other bits are generic code, but every version they add. Today it is posable to run q3a at 500 fps. This a semi bare bone instruction set. What kind of fps will we be capable in 10.3.3? What will it be like in a year? :) it can only get faster, it is a very bright future indeed.
     
  9. AppleMatt macrumors 68000

    AppleMatt

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    UK
    #9
    I've heard lots of things from games developers, including;

    - Thread re-enterance problems (Apple needs to sort)
    - Thread priority (Apple needs to sort)
    - Poor texture loads and purges with nVidia drivers (nVidia needs to sort, on both platforms)
    - Poor nVidia drivers generally (Agreed!)
    - The list goes on.

    I can confirm that the current build of the 10.3.3 update does provide a small increase in game fps, something which has kept increasing since 10.3, however full-screen QuickTime performance is still lower than 6.4/10.2.8 levels :(

    For some strange reason OpenGL games run a heck of a lot faster in a window, so try that (I think it's "Command + W").

    AppleMatt
     
  10. cubist macrumors 68020

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    Muncie, Indiana
    #10
    Re: lol BS!

    What game? What graphics card? You have upgraded hard drives? Your friend's PC has shared-memory video?
     
  11. SilentPanda Moderator emeritus

    SilentPanda

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    #11
    Re: lol BS!

    Are you playing a text adventure?
     
  12. LoadRunner macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Location:
    Manhaton Beach California
    #12
    Very true in 10.1 open gl wasn't a high priority. Apple had it's hands full with more important projects. But apple has been working with high end developer to build their rendering technology. John Carmack even went to apple head corders ones or twice to help apple with development.
    But now the os gui uses open gl, and it seem logical to assume apple will spend more time in it's development.

    But it wouldn't hurt if people let apple know that open gl performance is important, and should have a high priority.

    http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/
     
  13. The Dreaming thread starter macrumors member

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    Jan 31, 2004
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    Chicago, USA
    #13
    thanks for posting

    Great advise everyone. Thanks!
     
  14. unixkid macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    #14
    q3

    Originally posted by unixkid
    i have a dual 1ghz G4 and i get up to 400+fps and my PC friend has a new 2.66ghz P4 and he gets 300+ fps when im the one hosting the game and running an ftp server, a printer server, a web server, and about 9-12 other apps in the background. LOL. i run circles around him. he was speechless! lol


    What game? What graphics card? You have upgraded hard drives? Your friend's PC has shared-memory video?


    ------

    We were both playing Q3 with the update at 640x480 with every thing at the max. we both were standing in the same exact place pointing in the same exact direction with the same exact weapon out with the same exact model on. my friend and i both have nvidia video cards and i have an OLD geforce4 MX(64mb) and my friend has a 5200(128mb) which gets 15-30fps more than me at 1600x1200 so r vid cards r about the same so we tryed out the cpu speeds at 640x480 with all at the max doing things the same exact way as before. i got about 80-100+ fps more than him and i was shocked!
     

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