Opening a can of Pixels- Dead Pixels

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by Eniregnat, Feb 14, 2003.

  1. Eniregnat macrumors 68000

    Eniregnat

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Location:
    In your head.
    #1
    Opening a can of Pixels- Dead Pixels

    I have bounced around the boards for at least half a decade. Every time Apple releases a new flat panel model (desktop or portable) there are questions about pixels, screen clarity, intrinsic faults, etc. The people that have problems are vocal and those that are happy rarely chime in. I haven't seen any new Macs with dead pixels yet, but I am sure that it does happen. When I got my revB iTang, there were three partially dead pixels. Strangely, I grew used to them. When I sent my iBook in for repair (bad handle), Apple fixed it for free; I didn't even ask. Their stance is strong. A threshold of dead pixels has to be met. I think it somewhere in the order of 27 single instance failures, or 5 completely dead pixels in a row. (This coming from a friend that once worked at Apple.) I was told that a lot of companies have similar rules. Check out Apple's technical notes for the older PBs. There, they state that to keep the computers affordable, that they allow for a certain # of failed transistors. (I am looking for a link.)

    A lot of people are fear dead pixels on the 17'' iMac, most before they buy or receive one.

    Lets crunch the numbers.


    Given:
    17 iMac 1440*900 resolution = 1,296,000 pixels.
    and an arbitrary 5 dead pixels
    and 'dead' = all transistors for a single pixel are not working
    and that I don't care about sig. figs. or showing the work

    case 1, simple RGB, 3 transistors (1 for each color)
    # transistors Pixels *3 = 3,888,000 transistors
    5 dead pixels * 3 transistors/ # transistors * 100 ≈ 0.0003858%

    case 2, simple 3 transistor model (see above)
    25 single or stacked transistors failed
    25 bad transistors/ total # of transistors *100 ≈ 0.000643 %


    Somebody told me that there were between 5 to 7 transistors per pixel. Given the former, that's 6,480,000 transistors per point. This isn't including all of the processing for the images. WOW!, those are some big numbers.

    I am not belittling the fact that a single pixel out or that is improperly colored is distracting- it's down right annoying. Nobody wants something that is defective from the start, but how often does it really happen.

    Chime in as you wish, about numbers or what ever is related to this thread.
    How many dead pixels have you experienced on your new Macs?
    Which models do you own iMac, PB, iBook, etc..?
    Is there a lot of this fear board/rumor generated, or is it a common occurrence?
     
  2. RBMaraman macrumors 65816

    RBMaraman

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    Prospect, KY
    #2
    I have both an iBook and a 17" iMac. I got the iBook in August of 2001, and it has a crystal clear screen with no dead or near-dead pixels. I got the 17" iMac in December of 2002, and it also has a perfect screen. I have a friend who got an iBook in December of 2001, and he has a perfect screen. I have another friend who got an iBook in July of 2001 and has a perfect screen. I have another friend who got a Power Mac and 17" display in June of 2002, and the screen is perfect. I can honestly say, I know about 75 mac users, some of whom own multiple models, and no one has ever experienced a problem with their screens.
     
  3. Eniregnat thread starter macrumors 68000

    Eniregnat

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    #3
    This is my point. Look at the number of posts about fear of dead pixels to the number of actual people that have experienced dead pixels, and it looks as though the "rumor" mill has blow it out of perspective. I could be wrong.
     
  4. Bear macrumors G3

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    Jul 23, 2002
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    Sol III - Terra
    #4
    You could be wrong, but I highly doubt it.

    My machines are fine. My friends machines are fine. A lot of things get blown out of proportion by how loudly someone complains and then their complaints get echoed.
     
  5. MorganX macrumors 6502a

    MorganX

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    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    Midwest
    #5
    What about fuzzy fonts? I mean, there's a whole lot of people on a whole lot of boards including Apple.com complaining. And they are mostly long time Mac users. This is disturbing, moreso because I'm considering buying the iMac which is a non-upgradeable what you see is what you're stuck with purchase.

    There are no fuzz fonts on a PC at native resolution. It's not something I can "get used to" which seems to be the common response from many Mac users.

    If Apple said, yes, there's a problem. Will be fixed ASAP in a service pack, or whatever the equivalent is, it would be end of story. But I can find no response from Apple and loyal customers complaining.

    Remember, I "want" an iMac. But I'm not accepting dysfunctional equipment or OS' at these prices. I'm just looking for answers and experiences to help me make a decision.

    And I blame Microsoft for my current conundrum. If the Windows UI was more modern and there was an equivalent to the iApps, I would just spend half as much on a 17" widescreen and dual XEONS. On Wintel you have the bomb hardware and sucky consumer OS and on Apple you have sucky hardware and bomb (though buggy) OS and apps.

    Maybe I should wait until MS copies Apple, or Apple goes with Marklar.
     
  6. iGav macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2002
    #6
    My experiences...

    PowerBook G3 = 1 stuck pixel

    PowerBook G4 500MHz = 1 dead pixel 2 stuck ones, within six months this turned into a 'shotgun' cluster of conservatively 50+ stuck pixels in the centre of the screen..... although it could have been more, also annoying screen flicker towards the bottom left of the screen.

    Replacement screen for above G4, 1 dead pixel, 2 stuck pixels.

    PowerBook G4 1GHz Decemeber, 1 Stuck Pixel in centre of screen, but faulty graphics card.

    Replacement PowerBook G4 sent late December, no stuck or dead pixels, but delivered with a 1.5 inch scratch on the lid, a lid hook that didn't always catch, and massive screen interference.

    Replacement PowerBook G4 sent January, no scratches, no dead or stuck pixels..... and touch wood, fingers crossed this one has been fine.
     
  7. Bear macrumors G3

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    #7
    Fuzzy fonts are a seperate issue which you already started a thread on. However to answer your question again - I have not seen fuzzy font problems on my iMac G4 FP. Nor has my friends seen such on theirs.
     
  8. biscool macrumors member

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    #8
    If you wait for maklar, you'll be waiting a long time.
     
  9. MorganX macrumors 6502a

    MorganX

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    #9
    I know ;)
     
  10. RBMaraman macrumors 65816

    RBMaraman

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    Prospect, KY
    #10
    Bear is right on this one. My 17" iMac has very smooth and clear fonts. I have yet to see a 17" iMac with font problems.

    I did notice that people that were complaining about fuzzy fonts said that the 10.2.4 update had fixed their problems. So, if there is some kind of issue, Apple is working on it. But, I think this is another case of one issue blown way out of proportion.

    (P.S. - I know of some Mac haters who use the Apple forums to blow topics out of proportion, trying to convince people PC's are better. Do fall for their bullsh**!)
     
  11. MorganX macrumors 6502a

    MorganX

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    Jan 20, 2003
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    #11
    Actually, at first I didn't believe this. However, after the speed bumped iMacs were released it was obvious these were anti-apple folks.

    I did go to apple to verify the font problem, but dead pixel society may be blown out of proportion.

    I do think many people's poor opinion of Apple Customer service may be based on Apple arrogance. If you buy an Apple, you're locked in. Can't get satisfaction anywhere else. In the PC world if a vendor doesn't give you the satisfaction you feel you deserve, you just buy from someone else next time.

    If Apple does get a lot fo switchers, it will be interesting to see how these divergent expectations play out.

    Wish me luck!
     
  12. Eniregnat thread starter macrumors 68000

    Eniregnat

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    Jan 22, 2003
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    In your head.
    #12
    Back to the topic.

    Just to keep on topic- Pixels. Fuzzy fonts are ok, but at least add some personal evidence.

    Dead- every layer, all switching to a single pixel
    Bad- one or more transistors that do not gate properly
    Stuck - the same as bad
    Hey if anybody has had the massage technique work to "unstick" pixels, then not that too.
     
  13. GeeYouEye macrumors 68000

    GeeYouEye

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    #13
    In the past 5 or so years, of my computers as well as clients, I've never seen a single dead pixel, or any number up to about 500 (the 500 pixels resulted from a cracked screen) I don't think it's a big issue.
     
  14. frescies macrumors regular

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    Dec 9, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    #14
    Pixels....

    I have noticed that the bottom corners of my imac 17" have a slightly brighter appearance... though I am an excessive worry wort and this could just be due to a funny angle of my head...

    However, there is one thing that bothers me (and I'm gonna take it in for this one). I'm a Myth fan. I played the 3rd installment of this game on my imac for a total of about 20 hours (no more than that and spread out over about 15 or so actual playing sessions). I played this game at a VERY moderate brightness with a very moderate gamma level. Whilst playing myth 2 (which I do on a frequent basis) I happened to look down on the screen at a very sharp angle, almost parallel to the screen itself, during the map load screen which is almost completely black. I noticed a faint, but still obvious, impression in the screen which mimicked the in game buttons and title screen backround from myth 3 on my screen! I could almost read the text on the buttons! I was very annoyed. I don't know why I should have a burn in the screen after barely playing the game but I do and it bothers me.

    I think I will have to send it in :(
     
  15. Jimong5 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    #15
    My apple Pixel dealings:
    Pismo = 1 semi stuck pixel that sometimes works.
    17" studio display = none. everythings perfect with it.
     
  16. Kyle macrumors member

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    Dec 27, 2002
    #16
    I have an iBook that I purchased in October 2002. One dead pixel, and a scratch caused by another human being. :)mad: )
     
  17. Wes macrumors 68020

    Wes

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    Jun 22, 2001
    Location:
    London
    #17
    and people wonder why the prices are so high! We have customers like this!:p :D OI! Do you think we could meet at, say, Waterloo and you hand me one of your old powerbooks you have lying around?

    **just kidding, I hate the way Apple take away faulty products**
     
  18. Wes macrumors 68020

    Wes

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2001
    Location:
    London
    #19
    Re: Pixels....

    I remembering reading Apple's advice on this, they said, "Turn off the screen and leave the computer off for 1/2 the time the that image was displayed". Don't know if it works, but worth a try.
     
  19. Wes macrumors 68020

    Wes

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    Jun 22, 2001
    Location:
    London
    #20
    I think they allowed 4-5 and Apple allowed 7 or something around that, however, I have a Formac right here and there are no dead pixels.
     
  20. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #21

    I think Apple's is 5 in a line.


    Lethal
     
  21. Kid Red macrumors 65816

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    Dec 14, 2001
    #22
    I just sold my Cinema Display, it had a few dead pixels in a square shape. I bought a 23" HD yesterday to replace it, it had 2 dead pixels so i returned it for a new one with none.

    Yes, i was very fearful of the dead pixel because i had lived with some for a few months and it was very annoying. I asked every salesmen about the return policy and even bought the replacement policy with Comp USA just in case. Low and behold I had 2 when I got home.

    There's fear, but it's brewed from fact.
     
  22. Kid Red macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2001
    #23
    Formac has a 2 dead pixel policy IIRC. Just buy from CompUSA and have them pull it out of the box and hook it up, they did for me.
     
  23. altair macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    #24
    I can't believe no one has said anything about this assertion. 'on apple you have sucky hardware' ? Are you serious? The hardware Apple sells is soooooo much better than wintel hardware. And a buggy OS, I think this is another thing that is being blown out of proportion by the rumor mill. This is the greatest OS ever, it is amazing.

    Just felt I had to stick up for Apple here, I love their hardware return policy. If its broke you send it back and they give you a new one. Wonderfull.

    ~altair
     
  24. iGav macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2002
    #25
    heh heh..... the Pismo was a company machine, so I didn't really care.... but each TiBook I've had, has had some kind of screen fault, except this latest one, that fingers crossed, seems as perfect as I'm likely to get....

    I was more than annoyed though that it took Apple 2 attempts to send me a TiBook that didn't have some kind of glaring fault.... 1.5 inch scratch on the lid.... jeez..... I think they could do with tightening up their QA process...... it must have cost Apple a small fortune in shipping....

    Although the cool thing is, because they didn't send me a "proper" machine until mid Jan..... they refunded the price difference between when I originally ordered (November) and the cost after the price reduction after MWSF......

    Made me smile....!! :D
     

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