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OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion Developer Preview vs. Windows 8 Consumer Preview
- Thread starter skaertus
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sadly, i wasnt being sarcastic.
but keep it up, i hope it fulfills you somehow (at least your time), because thats all you'll get
Yes, having poor memory has to be an indication of being older and having more worries in life
You care enough to complain about it, not enough to help improve it and you reckon you're able to "beat" the entire Apple design team? You claimed to be older than me, but you sound like a thirteen year old...
Could you please elaborate what you mean with my "poor judgement"? For thinking you've got poor eyesight due to it mainly being older people saying there eyes aren't what they used to be who complain about these things?
So you're calling me a liar because I don't have any problems remembering where my apps are on my iPhone, and basically calling me a fanboy because I said that I don't have any problems with the current UI? Geez. Talk about being condescending...
You clearly have problems with the UI, and of course there could be improvements (which I also pointed out). What I said was that I don't. If you don't like the folders, don't use them. Put the apps on different screens instead, and use less folders. That way you might find a good balance that suits you.
I'm not a fan of this inconsistent "hybrid OS" thing, where there are two interfaces that have absolutely nothing to do with each other that you can switch between.
I find it funny how Microsoft markets the Metro UI as the new way to use your computer. No, it's not, no one is going to use it on a keyboard-and-mouse PC, since it doesn't make sense. It's only going to work on tablets, and maybe netbooks. It's not the preferred way to use your PC, it's a way to add a second UI to your computer that you aren't going to use, since you either use one or the other, depending on the device you're on.
At least ML is consistent in that it stays a full desktop OS, and you can simply ignore most of the iOS stuff going on, which is minor and non-intrusive most of the time (except Mission Control, unfortunately).
I find it funny how Microsoft markets the Metro UI as the new way to use your computer. No, it's not, no one is going to use it on a keyboard-and-mouse PC, since it doesn't make sense. It's only going to work on tablets, and maybe netbooks. It's not the preferred way to use your PC, it's a way to add a second UI to your computer that you aren't going to use, since you either use one or the other, depending on the device you're on.
At least ML is consistent in that it stays a full desktop OS, and you can simply ignore most of the iOS stuff going on, which is minor and non-intrusive most of the time (except Mission Control, unfortunately).
I ran the Windows 8 CP on my laptop as my main OS and it was stable for daily use.
I am not sure if I want to run Mountain Lion Del Preview 3 though on my Mac Air on a daily basis, as I hear it is very buggy. Anyone here testing/running it on a daily use?
I am not sure if I want to run Mountain Lion Del Preview 3 though on my Mac Air on a daily basis, as I hear it is very buggy. Anyone here testing/running it on a daily use?
I think MS will provide an option to switch lively operation mode between the metro-enabled tablet mode and the same classic desktop mode as in earlier Windows.
User can use the metro-enabled tablet mode for touchscreen equipped devices including tabletPC and can use the classic desktop mode for desktop and laptop PCs. Also user can use one of them for tablet-laptop hybrid devices by lively switching between the 2 modes.
The reason why MS have not provided the option, I guess, is that MS want users test and evaluate the metro environment as much as possible. The classic desktop mode has nothing to do, but the metro environment is totally new in desktop Windows.
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Windows 8 will be the another masterpiece and make MS and AAPL repeat their '80~90 history soon again.
Windows 8 will be the another masterpiece and make MS and AAPL repeat their '80~90 history soon again.
Which were the other masterpieces?
Windows 8 will be the another masterpiece and make MS and AAPL repeat their '80~90 history soon again.
Wow, "another masterpiece"? I'm a Mac user who also really likes Windows 7. I would be inclined to use W7 the majority of time if MS had created any kind of an application ecosystem similar to Apple's. Unfortunately they haven't.
Normal people don't by computers for the OS, they buy them to do tasks. MS has nothing that works as well as iPhoto, iTunes, iDVD, Mail, iCal, QT X,Address Book and Finder. My Mac Pro's scores for Geekbench 64-bit and Cinebench are higher on W7 than on either Lion or Snow Leopard. But where are the great everyday applications? Windows Live apps are like historical pieces from 2001.
On to Windows 8. I also have a Windows 8 disk for the MP. The real W8 part seems faster and more responsive than W7. I do miss the rounded corners on the windows but MS is apparently incapable of making rounded windows without jaggies (see XP and W7).
Unfortunately the Metro part sucks like a turbocharged Hoover. It's a horrible, pathetic mess on a 24in display. Without a W7 start button and the ability to shut off Metro I'll be staying with W7.
I've got Photoshop CS5 and Office that will need upgraded to the next versions soon. I only want to buy for one platform. So far it looks like Mountain Line is going to win over W8. Or, like all of those XP people I'll just hold on to W7 until W9 is released a couple of years later!
No Metro for me. And "charms"? Sorry, I'm a grown up. "Charms" seems like something on a preschooler's computer.
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Bro, do you think that all these apps are good enough?
I think there are several much better MS or 3rd party Windows apps than an each mentioned app.
Remember about 90% of global computer users are using Windows.
I hope OSX will be much better than Windows and majority of people will be using OSX. However, OSX is becoming crap in reality. It is sad story.
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I think they must be Win95, XP & 7.
About 80% of global computer users are using XP & 7.
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Have tried to use Windows 8 on and off for a few weeks. Its crap.
They've tried to use a touch UI on the desktop, and unlike Apple, they don't seem to be taking what works and leaving what doesn't behind.
Specifically : the new metro ui sucks if you are running in a VM, remote desktop session, etc. I've yet to see a compelling reason to consider it over Windows 7.
They've tried to use a touch UI on the desktop, and unlike Apple, they don't seem to be taking what works and leaving what doesn't behind.
Specifically : the new metro ui sucks if you are running in a VM, remote desktop session, etc. I've yet to see a compelling reason to consider it over Windows 7.
Windows 8 is a trainwreck. You cannot disable metro.
Any average computer user will despise this operating system.
Even vista was familiar.
Any average computer user will despise this operating system.
Even vista was familiar.
while i have sampled W8CP i think a previous user was fairly spot on. they're forcing users to test and get a feel for metro; they need the feed on metro more than anything else hence the likelihood that an option to disable it is missing...we can't judge what the final feature set will be or the options that aren't present based on a beta. i feel people assume this is the RC.
also while windows live apps are relics that require overhaul. their integration with skydrive, the possibility of moving between computers and easily syncing with documents due to the use of your windows live id/hotmail (you can literally walk to someone else's computer and sign in with it without creating an account) will all prove to be very strong feature sets esp once universities adopt it. these a strong features and this is the 'overhaul' and change everyone wanted Microsoft to attempt...might not please everyone judging from the Beta but its ballsy and if the features to disable it is there. we might just see a very strong and task capable OS in W8
also while windows live apps are relics that require overhaul. their integration with skydrive, the possibility of moving between computers and easily syncing with documents due to the use of your windows live id/hotmail (you can literally walk to someone else's computer and sign in with it without creating an account) will all prove to be very strong feature sets esp once universities adopt it. these a strong features and this is the 'overhaul' and change everyone wanted Microsoft to attempt...might not please everyone judging from the Beta but its ballsy and if the features to disable it is there. we might just see a very strong and task capable OS in W8
There's not an iota of what you ve said that's worth replying to, you should learn to respond to someone's points and not go off on tangents...oh and as you grow older and you accumulate knowledge and experience (which hopefully you will) you might find out you don't care to remember the placement of 20+ identical looking app containing folders on your device, it's not a matter of memory it's a matter of interests and priorities...Yes, having poor memory has to be an indication of being older and having more worries in life
You care enough to complain about it, not enough to help improve it and you reckon you're able to "beat" the entire Apple design team? You claimed to be older than me, but you sound like a thirteen year old...
Could you please elaborate what you mean with my "poor judgement"? For thinking you've got poor eyesight due to it mainly being older people saying there eyes aren't what they used to be who complain about these things?
So you're calling me a liar because I don't have any problems remembering where my apps are on my iPhone, and basically calling me a fanboy because I said that I don't have any problems with the current UI? Geez. Talk about being condescending...
You clearly have problems with the UI, and of course there could be improvements (which I also pointed out). What I said was that I don't. If you don't like the folders, don't use them. Put the apps on different screens instead, and use less folders. That way you might find a good balance that suits you.
Funny comment, coming from the person who's only reply to my initial post was to call me a liar and a fanboy, assuming I had to be young and free of worries because I didn't agree with everything you said and claimed I had poor judgement. What has happened in your life to render your bitter and impolite enough that you as an adult come across as an angry teen?
Oh well, that's not important. But it would be interesting if you wanted to answer my posts without all the condescending crap. That means you would have to rewrite pretty much everything, but hey...
You are replying to yourself, not me. These liar and fanboy tags are of your own invention. I really don't find anything to answer to in your acting out and projections.
When I point out a few thing and I say:
And you act out, you are calling me this and calling me that. You didn't even get what I said, I don't say you don't have a memory of where you 've positioned each folder, I said folders with miniaturizations can't be told apart from each other based their icon and I challenge anyone to claim they have a visual image of their say productivity folder on ios as opposed to almost everyone having a clear image of say the safari icon in their head. To make it even clear to you, you tell them apart based on remembering their placement, not their visual que, if they shuffled them up and took away their name underneath you d have to squint very attentively and try to figure out which ones which, unlike say safari, note, music etc. apps where if they shuffled them and took their name away you d tell them apart and go where you want to in milliseconds. That's why folders with miniaturized apps are a bad ui design.
Do you understand it now? Good ui dosnt rely on everything looking identical and people remembering the placement of items, otherwise the dock would have one icon repeated * X times and people would find everything via the position. Good ui design also dos not rely on you reading underneath anything, otherwise the dock would again have a bunch of names underneath. Names in os are ther in case one doesn't know or remember what something is, such as say a new app, or one seldom used. That's the purpose. Once a visual association with the item has been made, their name isn't meant to be read for frequently used apps, it's the adjunct help. But in folders you have to read or remember placement because unless someone is som über 20/20 vision person with a 1/100,000 ability for minor photographic detail in their memory, folders in ios can't be QUICKLY told apart via their vision cue.
This all flew over your head of course and you started oh you accuse me of being a liar and a fanboy, blah, blah, and after condescending others of poor eyesight because folders in os can't be told apart you, and condescending others about poor memory because they don't care to remember where 20+ folders are positioned in 5+ screens on iOS, you are whining about being condescended...
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Good point. I was only speaking of Mac right out of the box compared to a Windows machine right out of the box. Windows 7, Photoshop CS5 or 6 and Office 2010 are a winning combination, very fast and very easy to use.
I was quite surprised to find that I rather like Windows 8, with the exception of a few minor things that I expect to be fixed in the final version. On an 11" Air, Metro looks fantastic - I can't speak for larger screens. The way you can snap two apps together works really well, and I'd like to see something similar for full screen apps in OS X. The way it's all so stripped down makes it clean and simple, ideal for novice computer users, and those who just want to get on with the content and ignore the chrome - but it could do with a few more menu options.
The single sign on is a great idea - imagine going to an intent café and logging onto your computer, or using your own computer at work instead of the horrible, slow, crashy machines they give you! There are of course some downsides - you won't be able to log onto your work machine, because it will be forbidden by group IT policy, and the moment you leave the internet café somebody will log on after you and steal your identity... but it's nice to dream.
The two things which make it most frustrating are also, I suspect, the two easiest things to fix - Metro is crying out for multi-touch trackpad support, and too many of the apps aren't available in the UK. I'd love to know what the XBox companion is all about, but it won't let me sign in.
The single sign on is a great idea - imagine going to an intent café and logging onto your computer, or using your own computer at work instead of the horrible, slow, crashy machines they give you! There are of course some downsides - you won't be able to log onto your work machine, because it will be forbidden by group IT policy, and the moment you leave the internet café somebody will log on after you and steal your identity... but it's nice to dream.
The two things which make it most frustrating are also, I suspect, the two easiest things to fix - Metro is crying out for multi-touch trackpad support, and too many of the apps aren't available in the UK. I'd love to know what the XBox companion is all about, but it won't let me sign in.
I don't really know what to say to this... It sound like you are complaining about Apple adding more usability features. (sarcasm on) Oh no, let as return back to the glorious terminal days, why need UI at all?
Launchpad - I don't care for it either, but I don't see whats so bad about it - its a nice UI for organizing and launching your applications, and I don't see anything negative about it being similar to the iOS UI. Windows and Linuxes had similar things for years, only organized as menus. Why not complain about that?
AppStore - oh no, a centralized source for getting and reinstalling software in a convenient way. Now that's a horrible thing! Please ban Linux with its package management systems as well.
Messages - a chat program which can also send sms messages to phones. That's such a horrible idea! I'd rather type that text using my iPhone. Desktop is for serious stuff!
Notification Center - who needs stuff like that? Never mind that Growl is actively used and appreciated by tons of Mac users.
Reminders and Notes - even more organizing features build into the OS. That's so horrible!
See what you are doing here? You are just whining, and for no apparent reason. The features in themselves are perfectly logical and far from being useless.
Now, I agree that I would prefer see some advancement on the technical side of OS X. It really needs a new filesystem, better OpenGL drivers as well as Opengl 4.2 support, maybe a new memory manager, an iCould-based file sync and so on. I too have a feeling that they concentrate on the cosmetic side of things and neglect the technical base and I would like that to change somehow. Regardless, I don't see how ML impairs your user experience, it actually only improves it. In contrast to Windows 8 Metro.
Leopard is intuitive, elegant, and efficient, imo the perfect OS and Snow Leopard is a further refinement of a near perfect OS.
It appears Apple is looking to eventually do away with separate OSs for its computers and mobile devices and make them all run under iOS, Microsoft has done just that with W8. Essentially creating a single OS across multiple devices
Unfortunately, optimizing an OS for mobile touch devices creates compromises when using that same OS in a desktop/laptop environment and as such I see both these OSs as a step backward.
It appears Apple is looking to eventually do away with separate OSs for its computers and mobile devices and make them all run under iOS, Microsoft has done just that with W8. Essentially creating a single OS across multiple devices
Unfortunately, optimizing an OS for mobile touch devices creates compromises when using that same OS in a desktop/laptop environment and as such I see both these OSs as a step backward.
No apple is intending to keep them separate. Keeping things like Notes, Reminders etc isn't pointing to OS X and iOS merging it's merely employing common sense and realizing that the data should be easy to keep in sync between the Apple mobile and desktop devices.
The only hint you'd have about a potential merger in the OS would be if the programming frameworks behind each platform began to merge. Today you still have to programmable frameworks for each platform.
AppKit - standard mouse/kb driven Mac apps
UIkit - Touch based user input. iOS.
Apple has done little at this point to attempt any merger between these frameworks.
If anything I'm worried about the direction of both.
Windows 8 is clearly taking a big leap towards the tablet space, and while the new Metro interface does make it a decent contender for a tablet device, its still the same bloated OS, and the desktop side of things is now the worse off for all the changes, resulting in a mismatched mess.
Mountain Lion is certainly adding a lot of new stuff from iOS, which isn't a bad thing. However, I still get the feeling that the new features aren't as desktop oriented as they could be; in particular the apparent unwillingness to bother with proper multi-monitor support is worrying, for features like fullscreen and notification centre. We can only hope that that'll change, but it seems unlikely.
Windows 8 is a bigger update than Mountain Lion, but I feel a lot more comfortable with Mountain Lion's changes, as it's more of a refinement. Even so, Apple isn't spending quite as much time on the desktop version of features as they could be, and it shows in Lion and seems like it's going to be much the same in Mountain Lion as well.
Windows 8 is clearly taking a big leap towards the tablet space, and while the new Metro interface does make it a decent contender for a tablet device, its still the same bloated OS, and the desktop side of things is now the worse off for all the changes, resulting in a mismatched mess.
Mountain Lion is certainly adding a lot of new stuff from iOS, which isn't a bad thing. However, I still get the feeling that the new features aren't as desktop oriented as they could be; in particular the apparent unwillingness to bother with proper multi-monitor support is worrying, for features like fullscreen and notification centre. We can only hope that that'll change, but it seems unlikely.
Windows 8 is a bigger update than Mountain Lion, but I feel a lot more comfortable with Mountain Lion's changes, as it's more of a refinement. Even so, Apple isn't spending quite as much time on the desktop version of features as they could be, and it shows in Lion and seems like it's going to be much the same in Mountain Lion as well.