Our 27 months of hell

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by IJ Reilly, Oct 29, 2005.

  1. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #1
    I thought this deserved its own thread because I think I can read something between the lines of Wilson's piece. Does anyone else see it?

    http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-wilson29oct29,0,4988049.story
     
  2. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #2
    at a minimum, i'm reading that he's calling bush a hypocrite for not condeming libby's actions. from there, it's not a stretch for me to assume that mr wilson believes bush was involved.
     
  3. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #3
    Well that, yes. But I'm seeing signs (perhaps because I already expected them) of a possible civil suit against Libby, perhaps drawing in other White House people. If Libby takes one for the team by plea bargaining (and I suspect he's under a lot of pressure to do just that), then a civil suit from Wilson might be the only way we'll see any more goings-on behind the green door. Wilson claiming publicly that he and his wife were personally damaged might well be the opening salvo in a round of civil litigation.
     
  4. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
  5. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

    Joined:
    May 22, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #5
    It's been rumored for a while that the Wilsons would file a civil suit, but I think you're right, IJ, this piece, besides pointing fingers at Bush and "Official A" (aka - Karl Rove,) does seem to be laying the groundwork for such a suit. More power to them. Good analysis, IJ, and great catch.
     
  6. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #6
    I hadn't heard the rumors, but obviously I'm not surprised. The double bind for Libby and the Republicans is, if he does plead, then I believe the Wilsons will have set of legal facts on their side, e.g., the Grand Jury indictment and the admission of guilt. The only avenue of escape might be if Libby were to plead Nolo contendere. I don't know if the judge and the prosecuting attorney have to agree to such a plea, but I would hope they would not. Political trivia fans will remember that Spiro Agnew pleaded nolo.
     
  7. Deepdale macrumors 68000

    Deepdale

    Joined:
    May 4, 2005
    Location:
    New York
    #7
    You are all over this one, IJ. Very good analysis and I hope the Wilsons fare well in the end.
     
  8. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #8
    Nice catch, and I'm sure you're right about a civil suit pending. It certainly hasn't been a secret that a civil suit is a possible outcome -- and thanks to the SCOTUS precedent in the Paula Jones case, discovery can proceed while Bush is still in office. The GOP will indeed rue the day they went after Clinton so vociferously.

    However, with criminal indictments now a reality, any civil suit will be years off I'm afraid.
     
  9. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #9
    Interesting observation about the Paula Jones connection.

    The way I see it, a civil suit is of importance if Libby plea bargains and we don't get a criminal trial. Presumably, if Libby pleads guilty, the Wilsons will file a civil suit sooner rather than later. The point is, I think we find out some of what Fitzgerald unearthed in his investigation but did not reveal in one or both of these trials.
     
  10. Deepdale macrumors 68000

    Deepdale

    Joined:
    May 4, 2005
    Location:
    New York
    #10
    During Ed Bradley's "60 Minutes" segment dealing with the Wilson-Plame matter, there was a clip shown from the Bush campaign where he was claiming how his administration would restore integrity and honor to the White House in the post-Clinton era. Now that was amusing given the transgressions he and his cronies have engaged in.
     
  11. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #11
    that's a common misconception. he actually said he'd restore indictments, not integrity.

    as i like to say about I. Lewis Libby, the "I" is for "Indictment."
     
  12. Deepdale macrumors 68000

    Deepdale

    Joined:
    May 4, 2005
    Location:
    New York
    #12
    I like that. :) It is the use of "Scooter" that kills me. Here is a man in his late 50's or so and the media regularly refer to him as Lewis "Scooter" Libby. Being part of the Bush administration must have made him long for a return to his junior high school days.

    Imagine a national security advisor whose first name was Lawrence, but as a youngster had a nickname that others used for him. At a meeting about North Korea's nuclear program, the president would say, "We have a serious situation unfolding over there. How do you think we should proceed, Bootsie?"
     
  13. tristan macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2003
    Location:
    high-rise in beautiful bethesda
    #13
    Yeah, only rappers and few uber-hackers get to keep funny nicknames as an adult.

    The civil suit sounds like a great idea, but it could just lead to more people perjuring themselves and obstructing justice and never actually getting to the truth. But I do hope that Joe Wilson and his wife get some kind of recompense. As a country, we're lucky to have people like Joe Wilson.
     
  14. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #14
    No, no, nicknaming is a very common practice among "old money" families. It's a little secret code game played between fellow prep-schoolers. The British wear their school ties to identify themselves to others as being Old Boys; Americans have their family nicknames.

    Personally, I can't help laughing every time I hear Libby referred to as "Scooter," because it conjures the closing moments of an old episode of Dragnet. "Irving Lewis Libby, alias 'Scooter', was sentenced to 26 years in a federal prison..."

    Somebody should come up with the matching graphic. I'd do it myself if I was better at Photoshop. (Hint: airbrushing in a broken nose would really make it work.)
     
  15. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #15

    The problem is that with the "facts" as Libby as spun them so far, it is near impossible for it to go higher than him. Much like North and the Iran-Contra affair. Bush an Rove are safe. Dare I say like some people protected Hitler and others like him him, from their "sins".
     
  16. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #16
    Not necessarily. Many things were implied by the Fitzgerald indictments but not directly mentioned because they weren't illegal, such as the involvement of Cheney in the formulation of the smear campaign. They could easily come out in a civil suit. I am also less interested in legal jeopardy for these people than I am in the truth coming out about this administration.
     
  17. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #17

    I care little about the civil courts over the legal courts. Though like in the OJ case, they can lead to some justice for some. I prefer a criminal charge against this Administration. To me there is little difference between Hitler and Bush -other than that Hitler did for "purity" and Bush did it for his "faithfuls" profit. So who is the real devil now?

    God have mercy on all of our leaders souls past and present...
     
  18. 3rdpath macrumors 68000

    3rdpath

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2002
    Location:
    2nd star on the right and straight till morning
    #18
    Did anyone else catch the nickname that Bush calls Rove?

    Turdblossum.....I kid you not, it was in the L.A. Times.
     
  19. Deepdale macrumors 68000

    Deepdale

    Joined:
    May 4, 2005
    Location:
    New York
    #19
    In deference to him being president, I suppose Bush's nickname is a tad more dignified ... "Dumbo."
     
  20. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #20
    Darn, now the Secret Service will have to find a new handle of the POS, oops I mean POTUS:D
     
  21. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #21
    He got a book deal. Doesn't make up for it, but it's something. Oh, and I hope Rove et al fry for this.
     
  22. Mike Teezie macrumors 68020

    Mike Teezie

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    #22
    You and me both, solvs.

    We have those "Loose Lips Pink Slips. Fire Karl Rove." posters hanging everywhere at work.

    It's so great to work for/with tree hugging, hippie, communist, liberal fags like I do.

    :D
     
  23. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #23
    I'm not even that liberal and I think he should hang. Ask Don't Hurt Me how he feels about these people (hint: I don't think he likes them either). And he's a Republican! :eek:
     
  24. tristan macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2003
    Location:
    high-rise in beautiful bethesda
    #24
    Well, as Fitgerald said, the biggest issue isn't even the damage to Joe Wilson, it's that a climate is created where people don't feel safe from retribution. We have the first amendment in this country, but it's not going to do much good if everybody's afraid to speak because they don't want to end up with their wife's career hobbled, audited by the IRS, on the no-fly list, accused of collaboration, whatever. Then its McCarthy all over again.
     
  25. JesseJames macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2003
    Location:
    How'd I get here? How can I leave?
    #25
    Remember how moderate the Bush administration was before 9/11?
    Then afterwards it was like someone flipped a switch. Right into paranoid good ol'boy circle the wagons mode.
    Are WASPs this tightly wound when crisis happens? Maybe we are reaping the effects of tightly wound WASPs?
     

Share This Page