Outsourcing strikes again....

Discussion in 'Community' started by Chip NoVaMac, Jan 3, 2005.

  1. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #1
    I am feeling deep kinship with Macdawg today.

    Went in after a week off for the holidays to find out that my job (DTP) is going to be outsourced to either the paper we publish in, or other means.

    They did offer me the opportunity to return the retail division. So all is not lost. Though it will mean about a 20% pay cut, but that some might be made up with OT around the company. Just a bit of belt tightening might be in order.

    Stings a little. But at least I have a job. In fact HR thought that I might have walked out totally. Yeah, like working for a retailer is going to make me independently wealthy. :)

    Going to take some time and look at some options; either a new job or seeing about freelance work in DTP. I have 5 years with the company, so vacations are up there; and the other perks are nice.

    Thanks for letting me vent a little. Not angry or upset. So OK I may be in denial. :D One bright spot is that the pay cut should take me into a lower tax bracket. :)

    Kidding aside. It will be nice not to be working 50 to 60+ hours a week for the same flat salary. There is concern about the loss of the small cushion that my other half and I had with my "exempt" salary. And Faith has gotten me through worse, so it should get me through this.

    Thanks again for letting me share with my MR "family".
     
  2. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Location:
    iowa
    #2
    Very sorry to hear that. The longer you were with a company, the more it feels like a kick in the balls to be let go. I hope luck is with you in your job search--

    paul
     
  3. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #3
    Class act, your management. :rolleyes:

    There's never a good time to tell staff that they're losing their job, but straight after your holiday? Still, marginally better than just before Xmas, I guess...

    As you say, you still have a job.
    And you never know how the company loyalty may pay off in the future...

    Keep all of your options open: it'll be spring soon.

    All the best
    BV
     
  4. Chip NoVaMac thread starter macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #4
    Thanks Paul. I am lucky that I have a new position to report to as of Monday within the company. I count myself as lucky in this. I am still with the same company, so no loss of benefits. And in my situation, I sort have had a "feeling" that this might be coming. The company is feeling pressure from the "Big Box Stores". Not so much in price since there is MAP (minimum advertised price); but with Gift Cards giveaways, "till you die" :rolleyes: financing have hurt. The "finance arm" wanted better controls, so they took the billing from me (the job I was initially hired to do). Then the local paper wanted more of our business and offered their creative department to do some of our "specialized" ads. While one of our ad providers was offering their own services to create ROP ads.

    I have to admit that I was scared "********" during the first part of the meeting today. Being realistic, I am 47 this year. I am getting harder to place, even if I am willing to work for the wages of 20 or 30 something. Just look at the thread here about the company "banning" smokers for health reasons.

    Those of us that are over 40 offer just as much reason to "trim the cost" of health insurance. Then you have those of us over 40 that are not married. So we must be Gay (at least in this case it is true).

    Thanks for the wishes in the new job search. Not sure that I will go that route. I might do freelance work if my portfolio is as good as some think that it might be.

    Otherwise look for me to greet you at the local Walmart in Fairfax. :D
     
  5. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Location:
    Andover, MA
    #5
    I hope that you find some way to make up the 20% slack (or, I suppose, less, if you're dropped a tax bracket). I know that it's great that you're still employed, have the same benefits, etc. - really - but that 20% will be felt.

    I hope you try to do freelance as you just mentioned - perhaps this is just the kick in the pants you need to show the world what you can do!
     
  6. Chip NoVaMac thread starter macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #6
    Hey BV, I have to say this was better than them telling me before I went on vacation for a week after Christmas. I know that job hunting then would have sucked eggs.

    Like I have said, I sought of saw what was happening. Yet I had a great review in November. A good Christmas Bonus in December. All I know as a family owned business, things move in strange ways.

    I do look at what I do and what they could get "free" or at a "reduced" cost by those that recycle ROP ads. And given the ad schedule we had in place for 2005, I knew that I would be spending more time in the stores.

    With 5 years with the company I am still the "baby". Our receptionist has 20+ years with us. Though with the changes ahead for our industry and company, I think I am better off not being part of the "office". I do think that it was my "loyalty" to the company and and my boss that paid off.

    There was such a relief that I saw in his reaction that I did not go "postal" in the meeting this morning. I have to say that it easier when you know how the game is played to take such news.

    The major hurdle for myself right now is to look beyond the limited scope that I was forced to work in. I am not a graphic designer by education. And my boss did saddle me with limits that made it hard to get the message across. Though I have been told I am a decent DTP "artist". To that end it is getting my portfolio together that shows my growth and range (one benefit of not being walked out of the office this morning).

    As I have said I have Faith to drive me. Not going to jump at anything with out some thought behind it at this point in my life.

    Thanks for the kind wishes....
     
  7. Chip NoVaMac thread starter macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #7
    Yes it will be felt, more on my other half's part than mine. For i consider myself lucky that I was raised by parents that came up through the the depression.


    We have a industry trade-show in February. I just did some checking on airfares earlier today. My next check is with the HR director is to see what limits I have doing ads for others that are not in our selling region. Not to say that I could not sell to or make an ad for a different product of course. It is more of going with the strengths (and the artwork I have :D). Since our ads are local, I am hoping that I might be given a 300+ radius that I might be able to work with.

    Otherwise I see the possibility of working outside of my industry. Maybe doing some pieces on spec. I am trying to keep my head high at this point. And look for opportunities that may present themselves. Your kind words were a help in a difficult time.
     
  8. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #8
    A little OT, but there is a common misconception involving tax brackets here.

    A tax bracket's percentage only applies to the amount of money earned within that tax bracket.

    Let's simplify and say tax brackets are 10% every $10k starting at $10k. If I make $10,000 I pay nothing in tax. If I make $10,001, I have now "moved up" a bracket. However, I do not pay 10% of $10,001 and owe $1000.10.

    I pay 10% on the $1 over 10,000. So my total tax liability on 10,001 is 10¢.

    I've heard people fret about getting a pay raise and being bumped into a higher tax bracket. A pay raise is always something to celebrate. (Unless it kicks you into AMT range, but that's a whole 'nother issue involving ~$100k salaries.)
     
  9. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    #9
    Sorry to hear of your pain, and hope something better will be around the next corner.
     
  10. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Location:
    Andover, MA
    #10
    True, but, if you drop into a lower tax bracket due to a salary reduction, your take-home will be reduced by less than the salary reduction (percentage-wise) simply because the part that was cut was taxed at a higher percentage than the part that remains. As a blatantly oversimplified example, suppose you pay 20% tax on a $25K salary and 40% tax on $50K salary (the part over $25K). Then a $50K salary would result in a take-home of $35,000 ($20,000 [$25K x 80%] + $15,000 [($50K - $25K) x 60%]). So a 50% reduction in pay ($50K -> $25K) would reduce pay by "only" 43% ($35K -> $20K).

    Of course, salaries high enough to escape Social Security payments during part of the year, salaries >~$100K (as mentioned), etc., won't quite follow this rule.

    But, no matter how you slice it, a 20% pay cut sucks.
     
  11. Hoef macrumors 6502a

    Hoef

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2004
    Location:
    Houston, TX..... (keep walking)
    #11
    Hey fellow NorthernVirginian, Sorry to hear this... What a mess. Hope freelancing will pay off more than expected. I am certainly going to do the freelance route myself. Still toying with the idea of Canada?
     
  12. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #12
    A couple of years ago, I got a raise of $0.04 per hour. 4¢. It was more of an insult. Got layed off a couple months later anyway so they could hire someone for even less $$$.

    The worst part... it was a union. Not a union job. I worked for the union itself. :rolleyes: The benfits sucked too.
     
  13. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Location:
    Location Location Location
    #13
    This is depressing for younger people who will be working for companies in the future. :(
     
  14. Chip NoVaMac thread starter macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #14
    Thanks for the kind words. This switch has made it easier to consider Canada. My other half already has his acceptance from the Canadian government. The job I had made it hard to consider moving. Now that I am back on the sales floor, less holding me here now.
     
  15. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Location:
    "Between the Hedges"
    #15
    Just found your thread, sorry, I've been trying to find out who edesignuk and fox2005 are :rolleyes:

    Sorry to hear about this... its happening more and more.
    Glad to hear that you still have a job though.
    I know for me, that was a BIG deal since I'm 49.

    I have faith that you will bounce back and land on your feet.
    After all, you use a Mac!

    As for me, I started training today... its called Basic Ramp.
    I used to teach the class a year ago... bummer.
    My instructors are 2 of my former co-workers.
    I'm in class with 22 newly hired employees.

    But I do have a job. And that is important to me.
    I hope to start the long, slow climb back up the ladder soon.
    Just hope I can avoid those dang chutes this time!

    Wish we had a different kinship, but share your feelings about MR.
    Great to be able to share here.

    Woof, Woof - Dawg
     
  16. Chip NoVaMac thread starter macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #16
    Thanks 'Dawg. Like you I head back down the ranks if you will.

    I count my blessings since I do have a job to go to. And at 40 hours straight it does give me the ability to take and do some side work.

    It just sucks for us older workers.
     
  17. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Location:
    "Between the Hedges"
    #17
    Yeah, I'm going to have to work a ton of overtime to make up my 48% pay cut, but I'm willing to do it.

    It sucks for all of us, but when you are older, its hard[/] to start over!
    The longer you work, the harder a career change is...

    Here's hoping that your experience and maturity will count for something!

    Woof, Woof - Dawg
     
  18. Chip NoVaMac thread starter macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #18
    Well since they had me put in hours helping in the stores during the Holidays, I showed that I still can sell.

    And like you I will be taking the OT when and where it is available.
     
  19. emw macrumors G4

    emw

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    #19
    Chip -

    Just had a chance this morning to reply to this thread. I'm sorry to hear of your predicament, but it's encouraging to see your good attitude - it will help you find a more rewarding position in the near future, I'm sure.

    Being in the design/publishing field myself, this is a common occurrence, but in my company and throughout the industry. I think I need to move to China or India if I want to keep working, sometimes....
     
  20. Chip NoVaMac thread starter macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #20
    LOL!

    I think many us workers are thinking that we might be better off moving to China or India.

    Hey, things could have been worse. No job at all. The store I am reporting to has a need for manpower. So 45 hours a week seems very doable. At that point I will be only 5 to 10% down from where I was at. I know my industry, so I know better than to count on the OT for the whole year.

    Depending on the schedule I get, this may be a good thing long term. The company believes in a 5 day work week. So that will leave me mornings free if I take on the evening shift. I get the benefits of the present company. And get to sell myself to others during the off time.

    The issue I have to overcome personally is how I view my talents in DTP. I really lucked into the position. And my bosses were happy with the work done. But will it meet the needs of the market place? Self-doubts, the killer for some of us. :D

    I have learned in life not to make rash choices when faced with adversity. Yet real choices are more immediate, do I keep my cell phone? In the last few years it has been used mostly for work, and they paid for it. Very few personal calls on it. Broadband is more difficult. :) Used it greatly for work, but it was not an item they allowed on my expense report. But will probably keep it since I will try and do some freelance stuff, and I can't see doing modem internet now. Bad habits will get the axe hopefully, since they can cost.
     
  21. emw macrumors G4

    emw

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    #21
    Just be sure not to sell yourself short. If you have drive and experience, there will be companies that will be happy to have you.

    Or, perhaps, do you keep your land-line? Those are arguably more expensive and less valuable than a cell phone. You may also consider VOIP services, like Vonage or CallVantage (AT&T) that give you local/long distance services for $20 or so a month over your existing broadband connection.
     
  22. Chip NoVaMac thread starter macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #22
    Well had my meeting with my store manager today. He is really cool about everything. He is giving me "seniority" status when it comes to the new schedule. For the time being 45 hour work weeks are available. So the salary hit won't be as great (5 to 10% less than before).

    He and I got along when he was the assistant manager, so this bodes well for the long term. We can be frank with each other. In fact he mentioned that his only concern was that I might come in with a "bad" or "hurt" attitude. Yeah, I am licking wounds; but I also enjoyed the sales side of things too.
     
  23. Chip NoVaMac thread starter macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #23
    Things have been going great at work (despite a week off for my illness). Finally got to see my first paystub from last week. Got to love our tax code. Effectively I had a 20-25% paycut, but ended up with a paycheck basically for the same amount! :eek:

    And now I will get paid for overtime, instead of working for free.
     
  24. daveL macrumors 68020

    daveL

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2003
    Location:
    Montana
    #24
    I'm 50+. I worked for a well known Silicon Valley tech company for nearly 5 years, always getting above average performance reviews, until I was laid off a month before Christmas (2002). About a year and a half later, the same company hired me back. I worked for them for 4 months and was laid off again several months ago. I've been in the business for over 30 years. So much for loyalty, hard work and experience. I should be at the point in my life where I can start to look forward to retirement. Instead, I'm wondering how I'm going to stay solvent. Ya gotta love it.
     
  25. Chip NoVaMac thread starter macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #25
    Dave, my heart goes out to you. I posted a thread in the Political Forum along these lines, and found many more comments that seem to support the employer, not the employee. I chalk it up to the "I've got mine" attitude.
     

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