Pallidium will cause me to switch

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by Rai, May 20, 2003.

  1. Rai macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2003
    #1
    I have also flirted with the idea of switching to mac. But also ended upgraded to windows based pc.

    But i read this article which scared the hell out of me

    http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

    Is microsoft trying to take over the world:confused:

    I thought i already signed all my rights away with window XP, and other microsoft products.

    If this article is right, Microsoft is not satisfied with my rights, they want my soul. Anyway read George Orwell "1984"

    Not to knowledgable about this stuff, but if this article is true, there is now way i am giving microsoft, that much power. I think me and other users to move to apple
     
  2. MrBillGates macrumors member

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    Jan 29, 2003
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    #2
    Scary, scary stuff. I hope that everyone on MacRumors reads your attached link.
     
  3. MrBillGates macrumors member

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    Phoenix, AZ
    #3
    One more thing -

    Rai -

    Don't confuse Apple with the counterculture. I'm that if Jobs had the opportunity to implement such a thing, he would do so in a heartbeat.
     
  4. andrewlandry macrumors member

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    Jul 3, 2002
    Location:
    NYC
    #4
    if that was what apple was all about, then wouldn't the operating system have some sort of protection or at least a registration number or something?

    by the way, that article was scary as hell.
     
  5. MrBillGates macrumors member

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    Jan 29, 2003
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    Phoenix, AZ
    #5
    The answer is simple. >95% of computers are wintel machines. Yes, you can run linux on them, but do you think the average person is going to use linux for web browing, email, word processing, excel, etc? My point is this... for most the cost of switching is greater than the benefit of not being treated like a criminal.

    Apple doesn't have a monopoly. They don't have any significant market power. As a result, it would not be in their best interest to play "BIG BROTHER." Being like Microsoft would destroy their appeal to those who "think different?"

    However, if Apple were in MS's shoes it would be in their best interest to implement such a strategy. After all, the goal of every corporation is to maximize shareholder equity.
     
  6. MacBandit macrumors 604

    MacBandit

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    Location:
    Springfield, OR (Home of the Simpsons)
    #6
    Okay I know it is a small difference but please please quit spreading that Microsoft has 95% of the market. They only have 80% of the established computer base. You have to consider all the Unix servers and all the other computers in the world.

    As for Palladium I've known about it for about a year now and it is scary as hell. Some people are saying that because of it and the fact that it looks like the entertainment industry and the goverment are going to support it that it will force Apple to make a similar system. I don't know if it will happen but it is a large group of educated peoples oppionion. Personally I think it will drive a lot of people to the Mac if Apple can continue making a system without all the controls built in. Steve Jobs has said that he doesn't want to have any sort of piracy controls built into the system itself. He has even stated that they do not wan to implement a S/N for installing the system but may be forced to do so if the rapant piracy were to continue. All in all I would say we are pretty safe with Apple for the moment. Also I don't think Microsoft is stupid and when people vote with there wallets against this system they will back off.
     
  7. MoparShaha macrumors 68000

    MoparShaha

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #7
    Wow, I'm speechless after reading that article. I knew M$ was malicious, but this takes the cake. Pure evil. They want to milk the consumer for everything we're worth. I'm glad I'm on the other side of the fence, at least for now (I agree with the previous poster, Apple could impliment this technology to stay competitive).

    If something like this migrated towards Apple, I'd jump over to Linux. The very idea of something like this disturbs me to the core. It seems so anti-human, so against freedom, privacy, and happiness. I can't believe the American government would allow something like this, but then again, it means more $$$, so I wouldn't put it past them.

    Having a computer, regardless of whether its windows or MacOS, is supposed to be about personal expression and freedom to do what you want. This Palladium is trying to strip that all away. I agree software piracy and downloading illegal music/movies is wrong. But I believe there should be a choice. Thats what being human is, right? Having a choice. Obviously, this fundamental concept is diametrically opposed to M$'s desire to own the world and control everyone in it. M$'s new logo should be the hammer and sickle.

    This idea really gets into the whole Orwellian debate. This really is just the beggining. The rate technology is progressing, soon, governments will be able to monitor and control every aspect of our lives. I think the prevailing attitude in government/industry is since the technology is available, why not use it? I think we need to step back and look at the consequences of where this technology is taking us. Palladium is merely a small step into a 1984ish future.
     
  8. MacBandit macrumors 604

    MacBandit

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    Springfield, OR (Home of the Simpsons)
    #8
    You haven't been paying attention to the Homeland security act and the other functions of government that were formed after 9/11 have you. The government is and has been doing everything it can since then to know everything you do. You know those Alberstons, Safeway, Target, etc. grocery cards? Well the government has been using records of what you buy for the last 6 months or so to determine if you're a terrorist or not. It's much much worse then you could ever thing. Oh, and guess what the Homeland Security Act was supposed to have a time limit but they are now doing away with that. By by freedom hello big brother.
     
  9. mac15 macrumors 68040

    mac15

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    Sydney
    #9
    its a pity , switch now right before panther. palladium is crap there is very limied freedom . Although M$ did say you could turn it off as you wish, I highly doubt you will be able to though
     
  10. MacBandit macrumors 604

    MacBandit

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    Springfield, OR (Home of the Simpsons)
    #10
    I don't see how you're going to be able to turn it off as it is integrated with the CPU. The system will be matched to the CPU and will not work with any other one. That is the bottom line and all other security measures and anti-piracy measures go up from there. It's really quite scary when the hardware vendors are and software vendors are working together to prevent users freedoms.
     
  11. vniow macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
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    I accidentally my whole location.
    #11
    From my understanding of Pallidium (now renamed something else I can't remember...) you will be able to turn it off but it will go into a non-secure mode (like running as root, only worse) or something...so you will be able to turn it off, but for security reasons it probably won't be a very good idea which is why people should start looking at alternatives as soon as possible...
     
  12. CmdrLaForge macrumors 68040

    CmdrLaForge

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Location:
    around the world
    #12
    i switched

    Hello,

    i just switched a few weeks ago and one reason was the actual MS$ politics, XP registration forcement and those upcoming palladium features.

    You don't have to wait ! Switch now !

    Cheers
    CmdrLaForge
     
  13. Fukui macrumors 68000

    Fukui

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    #13
    This whole palladium thing is actually the result of several motivating factors.

    1st, MS has been the victim of 90+ percent of the Virus attacks in the PC (apple included) industry, and there is no way around it, short of an entire code base being re-written. Gates, doesnt want to do that (I guess 43 billion and a few years can't get it done:rolleyes: ), and it has been shown time and again, that MS software will be vulnerable, in this scenario, they/he feels that the best way to prevent attacks is to stop them at the hardware level. Think of a read-only hard drive that had no mechanism to write data, you couldnt possibly corrupt the data from a remote location...this is the way they are thinking. Oh, and also, they can be lazy with thier security level in windows now that the CPU is controlling it all...

    2nd, MS wants windows to be THE media delivery system for this generation. Think of all the money to be had from literally hundreds of millions of subscribers renting movies, music, etc all from windows, and MS gets a piece of every transaction...he beleives (perhaps correctly) that bringing iron-quality security to windows will make the media companies finally make the whole-hearted jump to support windows with thier full catalogs...especially if they can delete your files remotely!!

    3rd, this HW security has a nice side effect with regards to linux...namely, that in order for linux to participate in this "new media and security ecosystem" it must be approved by a consrotium (possibly something like the MPAA) , e.g a company MUST PAY to have thier code, GNU derived or not, to be approved so that they can boot up in "secure mode"...bye bye free software...

    4th, enterprises may love it because they can restrict information exchange at the HW level, I am also sure governments will like it too...after all, we as a free society should never be allowed to exchange information in a free and unencrypted manner. (sarcasm)

    5th, control of the hardware, MS will never buy a PC company unless they have to. Apple is able to move at a quick pace because things are "more predictable" (notice I didn't say neccesrily more stable), MS wants this advantage too. By dictating the HW spec, MS can better "innovate" like apple does...what this means for OEMs if all thier products are fundamentaly the same (they almost all are already) is unknown except that you can glimpse it in the form of the Tablet PC, the guts are almost all identical, the only difference is the casing etc...

    6th, and the final point is, securing windows as the platform and keeping it there. Many people cried and moaned about how MS smothered Netscape, and other similar companies like Real etc, and said MS was competeing against them unfairly...the truth is, it has nothing to do with those copanies per se, and everything to do with spreading dependency on windows centric technologies and services. Think about it. It doesnt matter if on linux you are free, when you cant

    a)do any online banking because the web service is using Java/COM technology which is proprietary to the Windows VM, and the HTML code is written exclusively for windows.

    b) you try to watch a CNN or similar online broadcast, but its only in WinMedia format, doesnt work,

    c) the hardware you are runing on is "designed for windows" and the interface is closed and hidden so you cant utilize fully the PC you just bought unless its running windows

    d)file formats in office will dictate who you can and cant do business with e.g everyone or noone and

    e) your new MS smartphone and Pocket PC are only supported by windows...oops try to switch now!

    ...just example A is enough for 80+ percent of the consumer market to stick with windows. A few more resistant people may tolerate B, but I can guarentee you that A,B,C is enough for 90% to say no to alternatives...to say nothing about them all.

    Trust me, unless there is some massive upheaval in public opinion, palladium will just sink in right under everyone's nose...

    I just have to wonder myself though, what happens when an exploit or flaw is found at the HW level, say in the CPU where palladium will reside, how do you patch that!? I think that this could actually (think nightmare spyware) totaly screw anyone using this type of system; software is mutable, but HW? It'll be interesting/scary to say the least...
     
  14. mac15 macrumors 68040

    mac15

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2001
    Location:
    Sydney
    #14
    It was built into the hardware but applications that use it have the option to use it or not use it, this is what I meant by turning it off. Watch the 2003 WinHEC keynote and longhorn vids to see it
     
  15. 5300cs macrumors 68000

    5300cs

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    Nov 24, 2002
    Location:
    japan
    #15
    :eek: that is one scary article. christ.. I can't believe there are still people who think OS X should be ported to Intel. Wake up, people :rolleyes:
     
  16. Jaykay macrumors 6502a

    Jaykay

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2002
    Location:
    Ireland
    #16
    Im sure turning it off would be no problem, as long as you had a hammers anda blow torch.

    Scary stuff.
     
  17. patrick0brien macrumors 68040

    patrick0brien

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Location:
    The West Loop
    #17
    -All

    Yes, you can turn off NGSCB (Palladium) if you wished, but the machine would effectively be renered useless as it would need to be 'trusted' to work with the NGSCB infrastructure that is being introduced now (.net, Server 2003).

    Scary stuff indeed. In the past, I've been comforted in the knowledge that the Orwellian prohecies of many Sci-Fi shows have never come to pass. But this looks to actualy happen.

    My thoughts on what I think will happen?

    This is the single most stupid move by Microsoft, and it may actually 'kill' them. To imprison users into something is a bad idea - and that's what this is.

    Yes, the average user won't know the details, and wouldn't care about the technology, but when they can't take their CD they burned under the Fair Use clause in the US Copyright Code, they'll begin to have issues. These guys at MS can't keep their ducks in a row now - imagine what'll happen when they control all news, movies, music, television, and print media.

    They'll succeed, for a little while. Then revolt.

    The medium is the message.
     

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