Patriot Act II

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mj_1903, Jun 9, 2005.

  1. mj_1903 macrumors 6502a

    mj_1903

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #1
    News.com Article

    First we had elections that were obviously rather weird (Bush's election to office for his first term) and should have been investigated.

    Then we had imprisonment of Americans and foreign nations without a trial (Guantanamo bay) and breaches of the Geneva Conventions (torture and treatment of prisoners).

    Later we had the broad and damning Patriot Act which removes first amendment rights (freedom of speech) and allows the government to breach your privacy at will (court orders without a court).

    Now the government can access company information without a court order and if the company says anything executives can be arrested. I can no longer trust US companies to keep my information safe, in fact I cannot trust Arn and macrumors to keep my information safe.

    Of course none of this includes the US hunting and invading countries with WMD's when they have no evidence and while your stock pile of WMD's is larger than the rest of the world combined.

    Why are US citizens silent? What ever happened to democracy?
     
  2. joetronic macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Location:
    New Oxford, PA
    #2
    I'm a US citizen and I wonder the same thing every day, but more along the lines of what happened to freedom and liberty. See my sig for the real definition of liberty.
     
  3. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #3
    Your definition of liberty is a little too broad. Put a clause at the end stating that you are free to do and be all those things up to the point that it begins to infringe on another's liberty and I'll agree with your definition.

    Essentially your right to swing your fist ends at my nose. Well actually a couple inches before that, but you get the point.
     
  4. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Location:
    Santa Cruz Ca
    #4
    That's correct. Canada, on the other hand has a very explicit Constitutional guarantee of Data sanctity via due process of law. However the # of servers physically in Canada are quite small.

    Anyone want to go into business with me? We can set up a server farm in BC and make BANK storing info people want secure from the DoHS. I've even figured out how the EULA and business model can make Due Process in the case of actual organized crime fairly simple and safeguarded against client erasure.
     
  5. Symtex macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    #5
    I'm a canadian and feel concern about this patriot act II. The Bush administration is now forcing Canadian to have a passport to cross the border. The Patriot Act is totatly unethical to the constitution and gives too much power to law enforcement agency. They can collect data without even the consent of a judge. Can you only imagine what type of inform they will gather on you ? Can you anyone say Big Brother ?

    *EDIT*
    I'm even more concern about american not even caring and paying attention to this Patriot Act II. The USA is going back 50 years in civil rights. Talk about Freedom and Democracy.
     
  6. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Location:
    Denver
    #6
    oh, we're concerned all right. concerned that it gets passed. we can't trust foreigners in our country anymore, 9-11 taught us that. wasn't there a canadian terrorist who got 'rendered' and then released recently? we can't just let people like him waltz into ny with dirty bombs, now can we? once the world realizes that we're in a new era and switches to our new, more secure rfid passports, and we finally close all the borders except for a few specific access points, we'll all be a lot safer. security is paramount post 9-11, let freedom reign!
     
  7. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Location:
    Santa Cruz Ca
    #7
    If that isn't sarcasm I'm more than a little worried for you citizen.
     
  8. scem0 macrumors 604

    scem0

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    back in NYC!
    #8
    I echo every statement made so far sans that of Thanatoast.

    We are quickly headed to fascism and Americans do nothing but sit there in ignorance.

    scem0
     
  9. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
  10. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Yahooville S.C.
    #10
    George's Patriot act removes our liberties. Imagine coming home to hear the neighbor tell you they just searched your home without even telling you. Is this America or Nazi Germany? Bush and the gang are very happy to destroy our American liberties and freedom in his false war. So lets see we can ignore Millions of mexicans/terrorist walking into the country but the police state can treat every american as a criminal and barge into their home with no warrant or nothing. People who voted Bush are clueless to his tearing down of what has made our country great. Republicans are a discrace to this country.
     
  11. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #11
    Stereotype much?


    Lethal
     
  12. Pittsax macrumors 6502

    Pittsax

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #12
    I think I can speak for a lot of Americans when I say that I am TERRIBLY concerned about everything that this administration is doing, including the Patriot Act. The sad part is that I can't do a damn thing about it. The election was won by people who are

    a)easily duped

    b)would rather use an antiquated form of "values" instead of their brains to make decisions

    c)are poorly educated and thus more succeptable to a) and b)

    d) all of the above

    Combine with someone like Karl Rove who saw the above qualities and concocted a nefarious and admittedly brilliant strategy of fear and smear tactics to win over said people, and you have a recipie for disaster.

    Unfortunately, there are way too many people in this country who would rather let Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bush and Co., and a stilted interpretation of the Bible to tell them what to do than make an informed decision.
     
  13. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

    Joined:
    May 22, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #13
    Here is a very good article discussing what this new version means.

    Prof. Anita Ramasatry at Findlaw.com
     
  14. mj_1903 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    mj_1903

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #14
    Sayhey, thanks for the in depth article on it.

    You know, the state of the world these days makes me so upset. I can do absolutely nothing about it. I guess I should just stop thinking about it.
     
  15. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #15
    No, that's pretty apt. The ultimate in freedom is chaos, where the only actions are held by consequences, not law. Humanity is not quite there yet though, so that's why we have laws. You have the freedom to do what you wish, but you must live by the consequences, and society decides what those consequences are through laws and elections of those who make laws.

    The Patriot Act (and it's sequel) go a bit too far though. It gives power to the government that it is specifically not supposed to have per it's Constitution and related governing documents. I'm sure we'd all like to do something, but unfortunetly there's not much to do until the power changes hands that we aren't already doing. Unless it gets to WWII era Germany level, but I doubt people will let it get that far. Look at how far down this administration's approval rating has fallen after just a few mentions of social security and euthanasia. Not to mention Iraq.

    That whole "with us or against us" thing only goes so far you know.

    I believe DHM is speaking as a former Republican. But yes, neocons parading as Republicans (and dragging the rest of the real Repubs down with them) are a bit of a disgrace right now. As are the Liberals. If they had fought harder, maybe this wouldn't be happening. That's why it was so hard to vote for Kerry. He voted for the PA as well.

    I wonder if someone like McCain would do much better if he no longer had to suck up to the far-right base.
     
  16. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #16
    Evil thrives where good men do nothing.
     
  17. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Yahooville S.C.
    #17
    Iam referring to the party and not the People, what the party stands for and where its going. Its not making this the land of freedom and liberty its making this the land of the Police State. Sorry but examine Bush & the Gang on everything from the enviroment,healthcare,fiscal policy,war etc. Its clear they are moving this country into something else.
    I said it before it was many decades ago that the Country figured out we cant have Republicans running everything because of the mess. History will repeat itself. mark my words.
    We dont need a Police state communist style. America is slow to react but react it will.
    Im ashamed i "was" republican.
     
  18. mj_1903 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    mj_1903

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #18
    Sadly I made a promise to a dying friend which will take the rest of my life to accomplish. Making the Australian Government do the correct thing wasn't part of that promise.
     
  19. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #19
    Bush & Co might be @sshole Republicans but that doesn't mean all Republicans are @ssholes.

    I agree w/what you are saying save for the, IMO flame bait, blanket statement. I'm not ashamed to be a Republican, but that doesn't mean I like what certain people are doing in the name of my party.


    Lethal
     
  20. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    #20
    Looks like we are more concerned about some than the whole (from the Washington Post today):

    Thought our laws were to be used equally....

    Silly me, we should let the RNC decide what is right for us. I am just waiting for DeLay to show up at a book burning on Pennsylvania Avenue at Freedom Square next week.
     
  21. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #21
    link

     
  22. mj_1903 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    mj_1903

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #22
    Yet they were all held in prison for 3 years or more with no trial and no contact with the outside world. Bush & Co. should be locked up for that but the American public simply doesn't care.
     
  23. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Yahooville S.C.
    #23
    Looks like the administration is spinning numbers (again). not 200 but 39. People have to start taking notice of the constant lies and the agenda for a All Powerful police state. George i wish you and your "gang" would leave the whitehouse before you destroy our great countrys freedoms libertys and reputation. Or is it to late.
     
  24. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #24
    House Votes to Limit Patriot Act Rules

    link

     
  25. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #25
    So I guess the system doesn't always let us down. Not completely at least. Um... yay?

    Now we're only a little fascist. :p
     

Share This Page