PC and/or Windows Emulator Thread for Intel Macs

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by taylorpohlman, Mar 1, 2006.

  1. taylorpohlman macrumors member

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    Mar 1, 2006
    #1
    I've just got my MacBook Pro, upgraded from 17" Powerbook. I ran Virtual PC on it and have one Windows XP app that I need for work. Obviously I knew that MS was delaying an Intel-based Virtual PC for Macs, so am hoping we can start a thread to talk about people's experiences with alternative emulators (Bochs, QEMU and products based on them like WinTel 2.1.1., iEmulator, GuestPC, etc.).

    The folks at <http://www.macwindows.com/> have some info, but not a good way to share info, and this topic seems to be moving fast, with lots of rumors. Googling to find stuff seems to be a waste, given all the noise on the Web.

    What I'm looking for is an emulator that is specifically compiled for the Mac Intel chipset, to get good performance running Windows, hopefully with reasonable integration/compatibility with OS X (Virtual PC is very good in that respect).

    If anybody's got info, or direct experience with any of these products on Intel Macs, please post what you know.

    Taylor
     
  2. badmofo9000 macrumors regular

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    Shores of Lake Michigan
    #2
    All of the software listed I believe still runs horibly slow. They all still emulate x86 on x86 instead of accessing the cpu natively. Virtual Pc and VMware all access directly which give realitvely great performace. Untill Vmware wakes up and releases a mac version or Microsoft releases a VPC update welcome slowville.
     
  3. taylorpohlman thread starter macrumors member

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    Mar 1, 2006
    #3
    Update on experience with OpenOSX WinTel 2.1.1

    I ordered WinTel 2.1.1 from Open OSX, which they assert is recompiled using QEMU and optimized for Intel processors. Everything seemed to go ok, i got the download of the emulator, and also downloaded an image of Red Hat 6.0, which I intended to test the emulator with before trying to load Windows XP. Only problem is that the downloaded WinTel image won't mount and install without a password, and when I followed instructions to send an email to automatically receive a password, it never came, and multiple emails to OpenOSX were not responded to. They've got my $25, but no password, so I have no idea if the thing works or not on my MacBook Pro. Save your money until I get some resolution on this - either their systems are screwed up, or it's a ripoff. Alternative is iEmulator, but they're not shipping yet, and a bit vague on when they will...

    Taylor
     
  4. netb0y macrumors regular

    netb0y

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    Jan 21, 2004
    #4
    You can use wine to run Windows apps on x86 *nix. Not sure if it is compiling on OSX yet but it should. It basically implements the Windows API calls using X. I got rid of my iBook about a year ago but I remember that it didnt have X installed by default so you'll have to install it before trying to install/compile wine.
     
  5. taylorpohlman thread starter macrumors member

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    Mar 1, 2006
    #5
    Wine looks like a good alternative to run certain windows apps, and I notice that most of their fully supported apps are games, with Word, IE6 and others as also compatible. However, I need something more like VPC, because I need to run a heavy duty Windows App: Groove. Groove is a groupware productivity tool and uses lots of MS hooks, file systems, networking, etc. so I need a full Windows emulation. I don't mind getting Win 2000 or XP Pro, I just want it to perform reliably and fast on the Intel Macs.
     
  6. taylorpohlman thread starter macrumors member

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    Mar 1, 2006
    #6
    Another relevant thread

    Just a note to say that there is a thread under Mac Software that is also relevant to Intel-Mac-based emulators - not much hard info, but a few links, particularly to Q/QEMU. If somebody comes up with a solid solution,there's lots of opportunity to make money/fame/whatever else makes you happy
     
  7. balamw Moderator

    balamw

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    #7
    FWIW it doesn't look like Groove works (yet) on the Wine based Crossover Office from http://www.codeweavers.com. They have said they are working on a Mac version real soon now.

    So far, it looks like this http://www.osxbook.com/book/bonus/misc/vmware/ may be one of the few possibilities with good performance. Booting linux then running XP under VMWare.

    B
     
  8. groovebiscuit macrumors newbie

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    Feb 8, 2006
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    Scotland
    #8
    I recently installed Windows 2000 on my Intel iMac using Q - they have an unstable UB.

    Install failed first time (it got stuck on "Registering Components" on the last install stage) but worked fine second time round. I haven't tested installing any apps on top of it yet - it's mainly so my wife can play Rollercoaster Tycoon 2, but Windows itself seemed to run at a speed I was happy enough with.

    I have 2GB RAM in my machine so I dedicated 512MB to Q. If RT2 installs and runs fine I'll be happy enough with that.
     
  9. taylorpohlman thread starter macrumors member

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    Mar 1, 2006
    #9
    Linux/VMWare/XP solution

    Thanks for the tip, but that solution requires me to either boot to Linux/VMWare/XP, or to OS-X but not have both at the same time (ala Virtual PC). The good news is that, done right, the performance looks like it will be great.

    I'll try the osxbook.com solution as a short-term workaround, but longer-term I need an "in a window" solution, so I can work in both environments simultaneously. That's the promise of some of the other products like iEmulator, GuestPC and WinTel. BTW, I still have not received the password on my WinTel 2.1.1 download (see above post), or any response to my emails - be warned.

    Taylor
     
  10. taylorpohlman thread starter macrumors member

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    Mar 1, 2006
    #10
    This is good news - it looks like the kberg.ch guys are making steady progress. If I can get it up on my MacBook, I'll try installling XP and see what happens - per some other forums, XP seems to be more touchy than Win2K.

    Taylor
     
  11. Edge100 macrumors 68000

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    Where am I???
    #11
    "Q"-based emulators will not run XP as of yet.

    Stick to Win2K or, for the best performance, NT4. Apparently, Win98 is also a problem.
     
  12. Spanky Deluxe macrumors 601

    Spanky Deluxe

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    #12
    Have you given darwine a try? Its a port of wine for OS X.
     
  13. kiwi-in-uk macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    My (cynical) guess is that MS will buy out the first solution that is 50% reliable. Then sell it on at a premium price.
     
  14. balamw Moderator

    balamw

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    #14
    Wine and QEMU are L/GPLed open source software and are developed by a wide group of developers, which kinda makes them hard to "buy."

    You're right though in that they bought Connectix (makers of VPC) outright.

    B
     
  15. netb0y macrumors regular

    netb0y

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    Jan 21, 2004
    #15
    I think Darwine PPC only. It does some emulation to handle x86 instructions on PPC.
     
  16. Steve1496 macrumors 6502a

    Steve1496

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    Apr 21, 2004
    #16


    Darwine 0.9.7 DP Universal Binary is out.
     
  17. balamw Moderator

    balamw

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    #17
    Yeah, but mainline Wine just released 0.9.9. :p

    I hope that CodeWeavers releases their version of CrossOver Office for Intel Mac soon...

    B
     
  18. taylorpohlman thread starter macrumors member

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    Mar 1, 2006
    #18
    Checked this out - interesting for hackers, but very limited in terms of what Windows apps will run - looks like most of what's certified are games, a few productivity apps (MS-Money, etc.). Assuming a port of 0.9.9 Wine to the Darwine project gets stabilized, and CrossOffice gets up in that environment, then that will be very useful - still doesn't solve my Groove problem (unsupported in Wine), but will work for most stuff.

    What would be hot for a lot of Mac owners that sprung for VPC would be something that sucks not only the files/apps out of VPC, but also the Windows XP code - already paid for it, so why not get to keep using it? If something like Q, running x86 native, and fixed up to correctly run XP, could access the VPC environment like that, I know that thousands of people would absolutely grab it up, at any reasonable price. Hopefully once the community gets all the internals figured out, and free/cheap solutions are available, somebody will see a commercial opportunity to produce a turnkey solution for business users. That could be iEmulator, but right now there's too much hype and promise.
     
  19. taylorpohlman thread starter macrumors member

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    Mar 1, 2006
    #19
    OpenOSX

    Speaking of QEMU developers, anybody know anybody or have any connections to OpenOSX? I been emailing them to get my password for the WinTel download for days (they already charged my card) and there's no response - before I really flame them, I want to at least talk to someone - called their number in SF, and just get a busy signal.

    T
     
  20. Steve1496 macrumors 6502a

    Steve1496

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    Apr 21, 2004
    #20

    I ordered from OpenOSX to compare it to Q. I would have to say Q is a lot better not to mention customer service at OpenOSX is terrible.

    If you're looking to install XP on your MacTel with WinTel, be prepared to spend days doing so. You have to use Bochs and not Qemu (way way slower) and turn of networking support to get it to install. Don't bother using a SP2 disk, it loads tons of files during setup and takes forever to get the install done--I'd say a good 2 days. I'm in the process of redoing the install.
     
  21. taylorpohlman thread starter macrumors member

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    Mar 1, 2006
    #21
    Thanks for the tip - I'll get Q and get it installed - at this point I'll get my money back from OpenOSX via Mastercard. BTW, what are you running under Q? Has anybody had any luck with OpenOffice, or other Word/Excel compatible software? - I certainly don't want to spring for a copy of MS-Office.

    T
     
  22. taylorpohlman thread starter macrumors member

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    Mar 1, 2006
    #22
    Got Q installed and it did a nice job of loading my VPC7 disk image (which was complete with XP-Pro) and creating a new Guest PC with it. Note that it took around 2 hours to create it, seemingly stuck for over an hour at the 20% mark in the progress bar. Tip - look at disk space being used, it's the only real progress indicator...

    However, on boot, it refused to run, gave message that "hal.dll" was missing - I'm guessing that the problem is the special nature of the XP-Pro image in VPC7 - any idea about fixes from anybody, or do I need to install from a standard copy of XP-Pro? I'll do it if I have to, but it's a shame since I already paid for the XP-Pro copy in the VPC7 product.

    T
     
  23. TBi macrumors 68030

    TBi

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    Jul 26, 2005
    Location:
    Ireland
    #23
    I know it's not what you want but I personally run Remote Desktop from an actual windows machine onto my Mini and iBook. It's a whole lot faster than running it on the machine itself. I know you probably need the program on the go but if you can live with it remotely then try that.
     
  24. taylorpohlman thread starter macrumors member

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    Mar 1, 2006
    #24
    Great idea - for awhile I ran Groove on a remote server via Citrix client on Mac - worked very well, and Remote Desktop should work also. However, Since I use MacBook all over the place at clients premises, I was reluctant to set up a PC at home that was exposed to the Net - I don't have the time, patience or money to keep up with all the anti-virus, firewall and VPN stuff I'd need for security. How good is Remote Desktop in the security access area - can I put the PC on my DSL connection and still have it locked down against intruders?
     
  25. Steve1496 macrumors 6502a

    Steve1496

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    Apr 21, 2004
    #25

    Wow I thought I was the only one with that hal.dll error and my VPC 7 disk image was corrupt, but evidently not. My VPC7 was XP-Home though. I tried going to the windows shell and copying hal.dll and expanding, but it doesn't work.

    Installing Windows XP directly into Q will not work. It's a problem with Qemu currently. You'll need to install XP on a PowerPC machine, or on a Windows Machine, then move it to your MacTel.
     

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