PC world is beating the heck out of macs in portable computers

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by jefhatfield, Nov 9, 2003.

  1. Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #1
    i like the G4 ibook very much...it has altivec, combo drive, great battery time, it is lightweight, and is $1099 usd

    not bad

    ...but then put yourselves in the shoes of a first time computer laptop buyer (especially k-12 student or college student in these recessionary times)

    i just came back from circuit city...they have friggin $799 dollar PC laptops

    they have the combo drive, but larger hard drives, way more software, larger screen at 14" and 15" inches, they are lightweight, laptop magazine posts decent battery times, and these "entry" level PC laptops go anywhere from 2.0 to 2.4 ghz...that is crazy

    and then there is always dell

    and i saw a superdrive PC laptop for under a grand and an 80 gb hard drive!!
     
  2. macrumors 68020

    daveL

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2003
    Location:
    Montana
    #2
    So go buy one.
     
  3. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    #3
    512 megs ram ddr
    30 gig hd
    amd athlon 2400
    cdr/dvd
    32-128meg adjustable integrated graphics card with 350mhz proc
    14 inch screen
    6-7 hours worth of battery in power saving mode

    $800 after rebate

    Thank you Compaq :D
     
  4. thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #4
    he he

    actually, when i bought my ibook in 1999 for my wife, she bought me a PC laptop the very nest day and we have used both of these for 4 years

    in those days, the ibook was problem free and still is, but the PC laptop had windows 98 so i would have to reinstall the operating system every 8 months or so since then...that is a major headache

    but that was my only real problem with the PC laptop

    but now that the PC world has windows xp, which is much more stable, then one wouldn't have to reinstall the os more than every other year or so...windows 98 was not the best thing, dos and all, but now PCs actually have a decent operating system and the value for dollar in a PC today is excellent

    that being said, i like most renditions of os x and os 9 better than most renditions of windows

    the one thing that makes windows xp better than windows 2000 is the very nice looking interface/gui...but who do you think microsoft borrowed the aqua look from:eek: ;) :p
     
  5. macrumors 68000

    hvfsl

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Location:
    London, UK
    #5
    After recently buying a cheap PC laptop, I have to say they are not that good.

    1. The screens are rubbish compared to ibook/powerbook screens, it looks like they only display 16bit colour when it says they are displaying 32bit. Most sub $1500 PC laptops I have seen, have rubbish screens.

    2. The ibook/powerbook are actually faster than most PC laptops in games. The only PC laptops that are faster, are the ones that only last for 30mins on the battery, which makes them pointless as a laptop.

    3. The build quality on most PC laptops is not very good, even the expensive ones.

    So while PC laptops are cheaper in the low end, you get more for your money with a Mac laptop.
     
  6. thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #6
    you must be sh**ting me!

    that is a great deal

    the 800 dollar models i saw on the PC side had the celeron processor, which has the pentium 4 core but much less level 2 cache...but that athlon? now that is a kick butt processor for an 800 dollar laptop

    level 2 cache does not matter much for internet, email, office, programming, and most things, but for games and adobe professional level graphics, it is a must

    my graphic design friend i know used to use a pentium II or pentium III for his graphics with photoshop and dreamweaver but then he switched to an athlon and it beats his partner's G4 in graphics

    ...and for half the price

    i originally didn't think amd would release the athlon in a mobile form due to heat issues and the original mobile athlon, called the athlon 4, did not do any better than the mobile pentium III, but when the mobile athlon xp, and the later athlon 1800s, 2000s, and faster models came out for laptops, it posed a real threat to intel and their mobile pentium 4s

    a mobile pentium 4 at 2.8 ghz with 512 mb of ddr ram is probably the fastest laptop on the market that is out there that can give a 5 hour battery time, but the cheapest one you can get is 1300 dollars, no match dollar for dollar to your 800 dollar mobile athlon

    i would like to see your laptop against the 2.8 ghz mobile pentium 4 and perhaps there would be no perceivable difference in speed, even on photoshop
     
  7. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    #7
    I've compared my screen to a powerbook. Mine looks exactly the same, not rubish.


    Your kidding right? Faster processor and good graphics card =slower? :rolleyes:

    My screens a little flimsy, but its able to stand me lugging it around to all my classes monday-friday.

    You said even the expensive ones? Have you ever had an IBM PC? Those things are freaking great! Build quality is as good as it gets compared to pc/macs
     
  8. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    #8
    Yup! even got a free A drive with it. If your in the market for a PC laptop, just wait around for the rebates, they are great, hehe.

    It would lose against the 2.8 p4, even with the cache Im betting. The 2400 that I have is about equal to a 2.4-2.5 P4
     
  9. thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #9

    that's what i would tell everybody back in 1999 with my wife's 300 mhz ibook vs my 366 mhz PC laptop and it was true...the ibook was faster even though the numbers said the PC should be faster

    but now, in late 2003, there is no way you can say a 1 ghz G4 ibook is faster than a comparably priced 3.2 ghz pentium 4 laptop

    the PC world has really left us behind in the speed department and it gets worse every month

    the one place where macs are better is in the build and design...interior wise, PCs and macs share many of the same components..uma architecture, crucial or comparable ram, toshiba, hitachi, or ibm drives and optical drives, etc...and a lot of it manufactured in the same companies in taiwan

    if the PC world ever starts making their stuff actually look as good as macs and make them as durable, especially for school kids, then apple inc is curtains

    i think the emac for schools and sturdy ibook are great for students and they can take a tremendous amount of abuse and this is the lifesaver for apple inc since schools buy boatloads of these machines year after year...and mr. dell cannot seem to come up with anything built as sturdy as those...he he

    ...but if mr dell did hit the education field with durable child proof machines, we are in trouble on the education front...just look at classrooms, those big black plastic dells are everywhere and they are attacking our students like something out of invasion of the body snatchers;)
     
  10. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Location:
    Baltimore
    #10
    I'll have to agree that if you're looking for a decent laptop, the PC market is a lot more promising. However, as someone pointed out, there are little things that aren't pointed out in the specs that can be annoying. I'll use my roommates Vaio as an example. First, its fan never stops, and can rival the air conditioner when he's watching a movie. Second, the screen, though good from a head on angle, shows shadowy negatives if you tilt your head 3 ft. to the right or left. Third, the keyboard, at least to me, feels unnatural.

    Its a fast machine, I can't argue that, but I get the impression that the computer was built to house the specs and nothing more. iBooks and Powerbooks seem like a much tighter unit. The exception, though, is the IBM T40, which I think is an incredible computer, and I probably would have bought one myself had I done a little more research.
     
  11. thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #11
    i don't mean to beech about apple inc and i am into apple...just look at my signature

    but instead of always pointing out bad points, i want to suggest a solution:

    dear mr. jobs,

    the education market is your number one market in terms of dollars and cents...and i assume laptops are going to be an increasingly larger part of that lifeline

    1) lower the price of G4 ibooks to match mr. dell

    2) and put an annodized aluminum shell on them to make your already tough ibook that much tougher and watch mr. dell run for the hills

    sincerely,

    jef
    4th grader
    hometown, usa

    ...now it would be something like that i would simply state in a letter to apple...the education front is where apple can gain more market share and without the school kids, apple inc cannot survive
     
  12. macrumors 65816

    G5orbust

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    #12
    Personally, Id never buy a PC lappy below 1200$. Why, you ask? The simple answer is contruction quality. If you have great components in a laptop without the price, something had to be cut, and that something is more than likely to be part quality. Maybe its cheap RAM? Or maybe a piss poor hard drive? Refurbished parts maybe? Older chips that don't run as well battery wise (desktop chips are the more likely) or maybe integrated graphics?


    You see, you have to look at this from all angles. Yes, great price, but are you going to be scrapping it 6 months later because the mobo fried or the hard drive failed and your piss poor 1 year warranty doesn't cover enough to make it worthwhile to fix.
     
  13. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    #13

    2 year warranty that covers everything from the screen to the hard drive to the motherboard.

    I've had a compaq before<refurbished 533mhz amd about 3-4 years ago I think>. You can't down Compaq warranty, they have one of the best, hehe
     
  14. thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #14
    in the past, the hardware angle was an issue...but those cheap hardware PCs like packard bell and such have been chased out of the marketplace

    good components, inside at least, exist in macs and PCs alike

    but it is on the outside where macs beat PCs in terms of laptops

    at least the PCs i have seen in stores are not as sturdy as apple portables...but some say the ibm laptops today are built decently tough...but since ibm scrapped their retail division, i can't just go into a store and see those new ibm models...i would have to buy one to really see how tough they are on the outside

    but even though components are good on the inside, if you drop your laptop, then most PCs will be damaged

    ...time and time again i have heard stories about how kids abuse ibooks and they keep on ticking...my clamshell ibook is lke a sherman tank:p
     
  15. macrumors regular

    dieselg4

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Location:
    Rockin' Pittsburgh!
    #15
    I love apple laptops as much as anyone else, but at almost every price point, they are counterd by faster, and usually cheaper pc laptops. Benchmarks prove this (see laptop comparison at Barefeats.)
    It's great that Powerbooks (and now iBooks too) include thigns that alot fo PC Laptops charge x-tra for or don't include (firewire, DVD-RW, sometimes CD-RW's, 802.11g, etc., dedicated video memory/processors) but when it some down to the bottom line, Mac Desktop performance & Mac laptop performance are worlds apart.
    As good a chip as the G4 is, its just not more than twice as fast as a Pentium 4 m. It might be as fast as a Centrino, but Centrinos run clock out much faster than a G4.

    Apple needs to get a revised CPU in their laptop lineup fast!
     
  16. thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #16
    when i got my compaq presario 1272 laptop four years ago, i found it to be really flimsy compared to my ibook

    but compaq has really beefed up their machines since then and they are built much tougher these days...i still think the ibook has the edge on toughness and the ibook can withtstand direct falls onto hard surfaces and their hard, thick shell and rubber mounted hard drive are designed for that

    i don't go around dropping my laptops but many school children do, but i know compaq is going in the right direction in terms of making a strong machine for kids...they still do have a ways to go

    i like the toshibas and hp laptops a little better in terms of outer shell toughness

    the toughest laptops i have ever seen are the panasonic toughbooks and they are even more durable than the ibooks but you can't get one for under two grand and that is their weak point...firefighters, police, and the military use the panasonics but that company should approach the education market with a sub-1000 dollar laptop for kids
     
  17. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    #17
    HP/Compaq now are pretty much the same products, except for a few outer looks, colors, labels. :D


    *Forgot to include that this model came with firewire plug in as well<4-pin> handles video great, if anyone was wondering
     
  18. thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #18
    when they were two separate companies hp had the more durable and prettier machines but compaq had the better prices and better market share

    in those days compaq was number 1 in retail store sales, hp was number 2, and emachines was number 3

    i assume the retail leader is hp-compaq these days, but i wonder if dell sells more machines than hp-compaq? but dell is mail order only, but i did see gateways at costco and i thought outside of gateway stores, gateway was only online like dell
     
  19. macrumors 604

    MacBandit

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Location:
    Springfield, OR (Home of the Simpsons)
    #19
    The problem I see is that PC laptops at the same price point of the iBooks weigh a pound or two more.

    Anymore when you are buying a laptop you aren't paying so much for such and such feature or better parts but for size and weight. Typically the more money the smaller and lighter they are. As far as I can tell Apples are right in there on price point when you are comparing size and weight.
     
  20. macrumors 604

    MacBandit

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Location:
    Springfield, OR (Home of the Simpsons)
    #20
    What model was that?
     
  21. macrumors 604

    iJon

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    #21
    but yet schools are still cranking out millions for all these ibooks for the schools. they may be cheaper but its still no mac, and thats what matters to me.

    iJon
     
  22. macrumors 65816

    G5orbust

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    #22
    well, good luck finding a 1000$ PC laptop with dedicated graphics memory, let alone 32MB of Radeon 9200 mobility power!
     
  23. macrumors 604

    iJon

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    #23
    which will only matter playing games, and that 800mhz g4 is gonna play games like crap if you ask me.

    iJon
     
  24. macrumors 604

    MacBandit

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Location:
    Springfield, OR (Home of the Simpsons)
    #24
    I've been looking at Dell and Compaq both have dedicated video for under a thousand but they're Radeon 7500s and the like.

    All and all the iBook for it's size and weight is a real killer deal be it PC or Mac.
     
  25. macrumors 604

    MacBandit

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Location:
    Springfield, OR (Home of the Simpsons)
    #25
    If you want to play QuakeIII or the original Unreal Tournament or any of the last generation games which are still quite good and cheap then it will be more then adequate. Besides if you're on a small budget you're not getting something for gaming any way. It's probably for school or work.
     

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