PC3200... Should it be feared?

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by TheOne, Jul 1, 2003.

  1. TheOne macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2003
    Location:
    St Louis
    #1
    The new Ram Apple has decided to use is no doubt both fast and expensive. However, I have yet to find a retailer with a 2gig set...

    Does anyone think that the new Ram Apple has decided to use is a mistake, or is it just the Ram is too new for anyone to really have it in stock since not really anything uses it... I really want the G5, but I don't want to get into another situation as I am with my 1st generation Pentium 4 box that uses Rambus Ram. (Rambus is evil expensive ram that's sometimes hard to find and is kind of simular to the DDR 400 since you have to upgrade in pairs) I mean, one day it would be nice to upgrade my Ram without having to break the bank...

    Am I wrong to worry about the G5's ram? :(
     
  2. BernieC macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    #2
    Yeah, 2GB PC3200 RAM is quite rare, right now. It'll get better. The only one I found on Pricewatch.com was for $1099. Yikes.

    The last stick of RAM I bought was a PC2700 512MB stick for $90. Considerably cheaper.
     
  3. patrick0brien macrumors 68040

    patrick0brien

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Location:
    The West Loop
    #3
    -TheOne

    Demand will cause supply in this case. Unfortunately, Apple is the first large-volume producer that will need this RAM, so it'll be expensive at the start. Personally, I'm waiting for the G6 (Power5-based PPC 980). By then the market saturation should be farther along and I get to leapfrog even the G5. :D
     
  4. DVDSP macrumors regular

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    Jan 6, 2003
    Location:
    Southwick, MA
    #4
    Pricewatch is listing 1GB PC3200 at $165. I think that is what you would want, not the 2GB. I don't know if the G5s even support 2GB RAM.

    According the the Apple Store if you max out the RAM you get "8 x 1GB [add $3750]". So $1320 at Pricewatch would be quite a bargain.
     
  5. BernieC macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    #5
    Whoops. That's my mistake. I have to get out of thinking that the G5s only have 4 RAM slots like my MDD. So, 8GB of RAM at those prices wouldn't be too bad.
     
  6. shadowfax macrumors 603

    shadowfax

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    #6
    i figure the apple PC3200 RAM, you will find, will be very expensive. almost 4000$ for the full 8 GB alone. those pricewatch things you are looking at are all 2x512 MB modules. you'll put 4 GB in and have 4 GB of modules to look at, maybe put in a fish tank or something. the 8 GB is going to be EXPENSIVE for some time to come. and i would hazard a guess that when the 2 GB modules do come out, i really don't think they are now, they will be supported on the PM G5. the way they are addressing ram, any increase can probably be accomodated by a firmware update. the procs' addressing capabilities support up to like half a terrabyte of RAM.
     
  7. benixau macrumors 65816

    benixau

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #7
    Pairs Pairs Pairs

    RAM Must go in as a pair.

    If you want to add 1GB to it you have to add 2x512MB RAM to each side in the mirrored position.

    here is what i mean:
    from (256 factory)

    ----
    ----
    ----
    128 (apple)

    128 (apple)
    ----
    ----
    ----

    to (1280 factory + user)

    ----
    ----
    512 (your RAM)
    128 (apple)

    128 (apple)
    512 (your RAM)
    ----
    ----

    So if you buy 2x1GB @ $165 Each then you will be adding 2GB of RAM to your G5 at a very good price.
     
  8. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    #8
    At least not this 2GB stick on Pricewatch, this was Reg. ECC memory.

    If AMDs Athalon64 consumer desktop is running the same memory as Apple, there may be a little more pressure for people to offer the larger modules.

    Not a real market for the 2 & 4GB modules for the 32-bit crowd when the machines hit a brick wall at 4GB.
     
  9. benixau macrumors 65816

    benixau

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #9
    Most computers have only two or three RAM slots these days. A 2GB module would be good for them. Our new powermacs on the other hand can use 512GB modules in each slot before they hit a brick wall :D :D :D.
     
  10. ZildjianKX macrumors 68000

    ZildjianKX

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    #10
    I'm not sure if its different for the G5, but you don't have to add dual channel DDR 3200 RAM in PCs in pairs...

    Also, anyone else notice that in the G5 video, the hard drive they showed didn't have a serial ATA interface?
     
  11. DreaminDirector macrumors 6502a

    DreaminDirector

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Location:
    Ladera Ranch, CA
    #11
    Strange question: Why does RAM need to go in as pairs? I never understood that....
     
  12. MacBandit macrumors 604

    MacBandit

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Location:
    Springfield, OR (Home of the Simpsons)
    #12
    I'm not quite sure what you are trying to get at. The modules you are talking about at PriceWatch say 2x512 because they are double sided dimms with 512MB/side. 8 of those would give you the maximum current capacity of 8GB in the current G5.
     
  13. MacBandit macrumors 604

    MacBandit

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    Aug 9, 2002
    Location:
    Springfield, OR (Home of the Simpsons)
    #13
    Apple has done this in the past and is doing it here for one reason. Speed. What is happening is that on start up the computer looks at say ram slot a1 and b1 sees they are filled and adresses the two slots as if they are one ram chip with two connections for twice the bandwidth. So in affect instead of the computer being limited to 400MHz by the DDR ram it sees it as having a bandwidth of twice that or 800MHz. I hope that makes since to you.
     
  14. shadowfax macrumors 603

    shadowfax

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    #14
    that's odd. i guess i have been around apple too long. they have things like in a powerbook RAM listing, "512 MB (1x512 MB)" and "512 MB (2x256 MB)," the latter being a set of two, meaning buying another 512 MB stick to take it to 1 GB would actually mean you could get you just 768. anyways, all over that page on 1GB PC3200 DDR RAM, though not on the first listing, it says "kit." everywhere i have ever seen that wth ram it's been 2 modules that you put in. like for my powerbook, they sell 1 GB (2x512) kits. i can't put 2 GB of ram in my powerbook though, even if i buy 2 kits. now that is just outrageous, it seems. look at the 2 GB PC 3200. it's a grand. it specifically says 1 DIMM. nowhere does it say "2x1024."

    i don't get it at all, sorry. if it was 1 stupid module, why would they say kit on almost every listing?
     
  15. MacBandit macrumors 604

    MacBandit

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Location:
    Springfield, OR (Home of the Simpsons)
    #15
    Ah, sorry I just reread the listings and I missed the part about Dual Channel. Dual channel means they have to be upgraded in pairs. Sorry I guess it was me that was used to a different kind of listing. I didn't find it all that unusual for a ram module specs to list whether or not it was a double sided dimm because that can make a difference in height and overall size.


    I just went through the listings at pricewatch.com and the first memory module I could find that was a single 1GB card was on the 4th page for $230. There are other listings that appear to be single 1GB cards for cheaper on previous pages but if you actually go to the site listed they are 2x512.
     
  16. benixau macrumors 65816

    benixau

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #16
    it means that numbers like 768 are out the window.

    You have to upgrade with identical pairs of RAM like so:

    from (factory 256)
    ----
    ----
    ----
    128

    128
    ----
    ----
    ----

    to (1280 (factory + user))
    ----
    ----
    512
    128

    128
    512
    ----
    ----

    that is it. Your RAM ahs to mirror itself in the slots that apple has provided. As mentioned it is like RAID 0 for RAM.
     
  17. MacBandit macrumors 604

    MacBandit

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    Aug 9, 2002
    Location:
    Springfield, OR (Home of the Simpsons)
    #17
    Actually there is still same possibility of RAM sizes as there has been for the past 4 or 5 years with the modern systems. 768 is still possible on the new machines with 256 just add two 256MB chips and you then have a total of 768MB. Quite simply it is as I stated above. The whold deal is that they system sees the two chips as one big chip but in affect that one big chip has two pipelines to it so you get twice the bandwidth. That's the only difference. You can still have any combination of RAM you can think of for the most part. Also with 8 slots on the upper two models you can just upgrade over time with even small 128MB sized cards you would still end up with a gig when all the slots were filled.
     
  18. DreaminDirector macrumors 6502a

    DreaminDirector

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Location:
    Ladera Ranch, CA
    #18
    The RAM "pairs" make sense. But what about in machines that have 4 slots (like my MDD) instead of 8 (like the G5). Does that apply to them as well?

    Right now I have this set up:

    ----
    512
    512
    128
     
  19. Porshuh944turbo macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2003
    #19
    i know it's cool, but how many people will be actually buying 8gb or ram.. or even 4gb??????

    do you have your current computer maxed out?????

    I have 1.25GB.. and that's usually enough :)

    2gb maybe.... most.. 4gb... but i can't see needing 8gb of ram...

    (all gb's should be GB.. i know....)
     
  20. MacBandit macrumors 604

    MacBandit

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Location:
    Springfield, OR (Home of the Simpsons)
    #20
    No those machines don't need pairs at all. In those machines the RAM is faster then the FSB of the CPU and there is no reason to pair them. The last time Apple used interleaving on a system was the Powemac 8x00 and 9x00 towers as far as I know.
     
  21. MacBandit macrumors 604

    MacBandit

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    Aug 9, 2002
    Location:
    Springfield, OR (Home of the Simpsons)
    #21
    No, for most of us even 1GB as I hav in my machine even though I can put 2GB in it is more then enough. Though as stated previosly there are always those among us in which there is never enough hardware resources. I would say the type of people that render at Pixar could always use more RAM. Give them 100
    GB and they would find a reason why more would be helpful. In reality there will never be enough RAM until permanant storage (AKA Hard drives) are as fast as RAM.
     
  22. benixau macrumors 65816

    benixau

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #22
    thankyou for that. I had forgotten about 256 chips. If i were to ever get RAM i would not go as low as a chip like that. 512 chips, even PC3200 are cheap enough to warrant buying them over 256 chips. Also the benfit of doing so is mush more obvious.

    but yes - thankyou for clarifying that about sizes.

    And it is like i said - RAID0 on RAM. using more than one physical unit to create one logical unit. People dont really get Dual Channel yet, people mostly get RAID0 / stripping.
     
  23. KentuckyApple macrumors regular

    KentuckyApple

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    Jul 2, 2003
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    #23
    stripping sounds nice, but I thought it was striping.
     
  24. ZildjianKX macrumors 68000

    ZildjianKX

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    #24
    Come on... I can't be the only tech geek here... no one else noticed?
     
  25. MacBandit macrumors 604

    MacBandit

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Location:
    Springfield, OR (Home of the Simpsons)
    #25
    You must be referring to the architecture overview 3d tour. Well yeah it's pretty obvious but at this point after all the hoohaa with the PowerMacs at the Apple Store who really cares. So Apple makes mistakes. Also could just be they are using renderings and animation from some previous project to save money and time.
     

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