Pearl Harbor

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by wdlove, Dec 7, 2004.

  1. wdlove macrumors P6


    Oct 20, 2002
  2. blackfox macrumors 65816


    Feb 18, 2003
    I do not wish to imply anything Political, but this should be a solemn reminder of the importance of good Intelligence-gathering capabilities.
  3. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Jul 4, 2003
    Terlingua, Texas
    "Yesterday, December 7, 1941 -- a date which will live in infamy -- the United States was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the empire of Japan."

    This is what a lot of old folks remember.

    But, to stop there is to romanticize those times. You can't leave out the political, for the attack did not happen in a vacuum. Once again, one must look at history, insofar as facts can be ascertained.

    Gary North, in his "Reality Check", Issue 402 of Dec 7, 2004, offers some interesting commentary:

    " In October, 1940, Lieutenant Commander Arthur McCollum, an Annapolis graduate who was fluent in Japanese, wrote a 5-page memorandum. He was with the Office of Naval Intelligence. He outlined an 8-point strategy on how to get Japan to attack the United States, thereby enabling the
    United States to defeat Japan. He believed this conflict was inevitable. The final two points were these: (1) persuade the Dutch to block increases in shipments of resources, especially oil, to Japan from the Dutch East Indies; (2) put a U.S. embargo on Japan. His memo was sent to a pair of Roosevelt's naval advisors on October 7. One of them was the Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence.

    Over the next year, seven of the eight points were followed by the President. The sixth was already in place: keeping the Pacific fleet in Hawaii, which the Fleet's commander, Admiral Richardson, strongly opposed. The day after McCollum wrote his memo, Roosevelt informed Richardson that the fleet would remain at Pearl. Richardson vocally opposed the plan one more time. He was replaced by Kimmel the following February, which is covered briefly in "Tora, Tora, Tora." The scene in the airplane is the key scene for the entire movie, where Richardson tells Kimmel that Pearl is not easy to defend.

    You can read more about McCollum and FDR's policies here: Chapter 2 of Robert Stinnett's 1999 book, "Day of Deceit." Or you can read Stinnett's own summary of his findings here: There is additional information here:"

    Sorta separately, there was much, much less effort--and money--spent on military intelligence in those years before WW II. There was still a spirit of "Gentlemen don't read other gentlemen's mail."

  4. zimv20 macrumors 601


    Jul 18, 2002
    thanks, rat. i didn't know some of that stuff.
  5. musicpyrite macrumors 68000


    Jan 6, 2004
    Cape Cod
    So sad... I only heard one person mention it today, my history teacher. :rolleyes:

    My thanks go out to all the men and women who served and are currently serving out country. Thank you. :)
  6. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Jul 4, 2003
    Terlingua, Texas
    musicpyrite, in the 1940s, not much was said about the Spanish-American war. Still had a very few folks around who'd been in the Civil War. Some guys who'd been in WW I went off to WW II...

    I disremember the cite, but somebody from the days of the Roman Empire said, "There will always be wars and rumors of wars," and, "If you would have peace, be prepared for war." Seneca? Anyhow, he predicted the behavior of Homo Sap pretty well.

    I'm always talking about unanticipated side-effects, or unintended consequences: Japan militarized and invaded in order to assure access to raw materials. After losing that war, Japan acquired by trade what was not gained by war.

    Irony is unending...

  7. takao macrumors 68040


    Dec 25, 2003
    Dornbirn (Austria)
    i found:

    "Let him who desires peace prepare for war."
    Flavius Vegetius Renatus ~375 AD


    "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war."
    Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

  8. skunk macrumors G4


    Jun 29, 2002
    Republic of Ukistan
    Mark 13:7

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