Plame sues....everyone

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by yg17, Jul 13, 2006.

  1. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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  2. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #2
    Those are the three draft dodgers who leaked this CIA agent out. Im sure if we didnt have a republican ran govt they would have been hammmered but since republicans run the show not much is happening to these treasonous bums.
     
  3. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #3
    no surprise there. i assume she and mr wilson feel that the fitzgerald investigation is over.
     
  4. stillwater macrumors regular

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  5. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #5
    She deserves a huge chunk of Cheney's cash. If she doesn't win, we need an armed revolt against this administration.
     
  6. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

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    #6

    where do i sign up?
     
  7. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #7
    And of course, as a result of aggressive GOP tactics during the Paula Jones lawsuit against Bill Clinton, the SCOTUS has already signed off on allowing discovery to proceed against a sitting President. I would assume if the President isn't immune from a civil lawsuit that the Veep would not be either.

    Might be nice to see the right bit in the ass for their "penny-wise, pound-foolish" waste of taxpayer time and money in their blind hatred of Bill Clinton.
     
  8. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    #8
    That was my first thought reading the OP. But, you have a problem there. The SCOTUS ruled that a current POTUS can be sued civilly for acts committed prior to his presidency (and can be sued while in office), but has complete immunity for civil causes arising from his acts while in office.

    But, your last point is intriguing. How far will that immunity be extended. Rove and Libby obviously won't be protected, but I am not sure how the VP will go. My guess? VP cannot be sued for causes arising from exercise of his office - goes to the same need to allow decision-making without fear of civil liability (yes this can be a concern for a lot of reasons...). But, I wouldn't put money on that...
     
  9. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #9
    Do you know where the language is that makes the distinction between acts committed that occur prior to taking office? I don't remember the Jones lawsuit being based on the issue of whether the act in question took place before or after the POTUS took office. I thought it was a question of whether or not the POTUS could be bothered by a civil suit at all during his presidency.

    I'm not saying it's not there... I just don't remember that part.

    And part of this too is that it's ultimately only the SCOTUS that has challenged Bush at all on his administration's actions. They seem, from the Hamdan decision, to have declared that the POTUS does not have unlimited power, and presents the possibility that they will expand that challenge to official conduct while in office. We have to remember that Bush's SCOTUS choices so far have only moved the court a little more to the right than before.
     
  10. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    #10
    I don't think it was central, but it was raised.

    "Petitioner's principal submission--that "in all but the most exceptional cases," Brief for Petitioner i, the Constitution affords the President temporary immunity from civil damages litigation arising out of events that occurred before he took office--cannot be sustained on the basis of precedent." Jones v. Clinton. 520 US 681, 692.

    "Applying the principles of our cases to claims of this kind, we hold that petitioner, as a former President of the United States, is entitled to absolute immunity from damages liability predicated on his official acts. We consider this immunity a functionally mandated incident of the President's unique office, rooted in the constitutional tradition of the separation of powers and supported by our history." Nixon v. Fitzgerald. 457 US 731, 749. cited in part at 520 US at 695 (but was more specifically restricted to "official" acts).

    Excuse the poor citations, but they should be good enough to get you what you might need if you want more context.
     
  11. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #11
    Hmm... I wonder if "official acts" covers leaking classified information to smear a political opponent.
     
  12. aquajet macrumors 68020

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    #12
    Wonderful. Now you've got the spooks' attention with your treasonous talk... ;)
     
  13. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    #13
    I guess that is the question. At the same time, I wonder if the Court learned its lesson from the Jones case and will allow a stay on the Cheney suit until 2k9 (I wonder if they would sever the VPOTUS or if they would stay all the cases, if there is a stay).
     
  14. FFTT macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #14
    I would just love to see Cheney forced to testify under oath.

    If it's a choice between his own butt under threat of perjury or Rove's
    he's looking at double jeopary for the administration.
     
  15. sushi Moderator emeritus

    sushi

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    #15
    It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

    Me thinks those who believe that the Wilson's have a "real" case will be sadly disappointed.

    But that's just me.
     
  16. FFTT macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #16
    I'm reasonably certain that some diversion will pop up to keep the public's
    mind off of the case as much as possible.
     
  17. sushi Moderator emeritus

    sushi

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    #17
    The possibility that it is not the issue that some would try to have us believe?

    "Robert Novak’s column yesterday revealed that, before publishing his now-controversial column in which he “outed” Valerie Plame, he get confirmation of her role from Bill Harlow, the CIA public information officer. That makes it pretty clear that Plame’s status with the CIA was far less “covert” than we’d been led to believe."
     
  18. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #18
    So? The intent was obvious. The implications don't bother you? These same people cry foul when the NYT publishes info on secret and unConstitutional programs claiming it somehow helps the terrorists and hurts national security. Even though the only new information is the lack of oversight. Yet releasing the name of an active CIA operative (at best to smear her) because her husband calls you on a lie is ok? I'm amazed that some people actually don't have a problem with this.

    Who cares if she loses, I just want to see them having to explain themselves.
     
  19. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #19
    link, please.
     
  20. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #20
    Learning a lesson would mean overturning recent direct precedent though. Most of those on the bench now decided this themselves, so they would have to argue convincingly in their decision that something occured to change their mind besides just learning their lesson.

    But underlying all of it is a GOP-led effort to protect the office of the P and VP from the very thing they (successfully) argued was essential before. The irony of that will not be lost on many people.
     
  21. sushi Moderator emeritus

    sushi

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  22. sushi Moderator emeritus

    sushi

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    #22
    Interesting article:

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/09/29/novak.cia/

    Some exerpts:

    "Nobody in the Bush administration called me to leak this," Novak said on "Crossfire." "There is no great crime here."

    "They asked me not to use her name, but never indicated it would endanger her or anybody else. According to a confidential source at the CIA, Mrs. Wilson was an analyst, not a spy, not a covert operative and not in charge of undercover operators," Novak said.
     
  23. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #23
    What if the confirming conversation went along these lines:
    Novak: "I'm writing a story about Valerie Plame being the CIA person who authorized her husband Joe Wilson to make his trip to Niger. Can you comment on that?"

    Harlow: "You can't print that!"

    Novak: "Thank you for confirming that for me."
    Does that make it clear that Plame's status was far less "covert" than we'd been led to believe?
     
  24. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #24
    This has been known for sometime. Harlow's remembrance of the conversation is much different than Novak's. His "confirmation" for Novak seems to be that he told Novak he shouldn't write about agents. If you're relying on Novak as a reliable source in this stuff you might as well just plug your brain into the RNC for their daily talking points.

    From the Washington Post:
    In short, Harlow's contact with Novak over this issue has long been known but the content of those conversations are disputed - to say the least.
     
  25. sushi Moderator emeritus

    sushi

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    #25
    One question that will be interesting to see the answer, is what was her real status:

    Was she an analyst?

    Or was she a cover operative?
     

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