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3282872

macrumors 6502a
Dec 11, 2006
821
0

right back at ya:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=safari&rls=en&q=Verizon+wireless+sucks&btnG=Search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=safari&rls=en&q=I+HATE+VERIZON&btnG=Search

As for your other article, I can find countless articles (which are basically OPINIONS) as to why Verizon and Sprint suck:

http://www.my3cents.com/search.cgi?criteria=verizon&usearch=X

http://www.epinions.com/content_110157663876

I found countless articles online that state how bad Verizon wireless and Sprint are (see, when you type in "[COMPANY] sucks" you will get articles about opinions on the company sucking (funny how that works). Keep in mind, people do NOT go online to write about how great the service is (in general) but do so when they have issues with the service. When service runs well, most people don't think twice about it.

Another point in the consumer article was WRONG: Cingular uses EDGE and 3G/HSDPA, which is just as fast if not faster than Verizon's download rates. Hating is easy, educating yourself on ALL the facts is essential.

Look, in the end, both companies have great technology with very minimal differences. Personally, I would rather spend my money on a company that DOES NOT dictate what I can and can not do with my phone, as Verizon does with crippling Bluetooth OBEX and other features readily available to me through Cingular mobile devices.

references here:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1751567,00.asp

http://www.canyouhearusnow.net/v710/v710story.php

Plus, when I travel internationally, my Cingular GSM/3G phone works perfectly, unlike Verizon and Sprint CDMA dated technology. More over, CDMA technology is NOT as upgradable as GSM; what will happen when Verizon becomes overloaded, which WILL happen?
 

Carniphage

macrumors 68000
Oct 29, 2006
1,880
1
Sheffield, England
Look into the magic glass on the iPhone and the future reveals itself.
I foresee....

1) New features revealed before the phone is released.
2) Bugfixes will appear soon after launch.
3) The high price will fall. With the first cut in early November.
4) 3rd party software will come - but through Apple's ratification process. Buy through iTunes. You'll get additional functionality, you just won't have the freedom to screw up your own phone with ********.
4a) Someone will probably figure a way round this.
5) 3G will happen for the European or Asian release.
6) Exchange integration will appear.
7) The exclusivity period with Cingluar will come to an end. (Soon if they miss their sales targets)

If you think a device is a collection of features, and that the more features you get the better the device is, then go buy something else. This is not a phone for you.

But if your current phone sucks, because it is like a bag of features which are impossible to use. Then stick around. This is going to get interesting.

C. with crystal balls.
 

TheBobcat

macrumors 6502
Nov 1, 2006
351
0
East Lansing, Michigan
This is just like all the bitching when they announced iPod and everyone was pissed it wasn't a Newton, and we all know how that turned out, don't we? Too expensive! No features! Already done other places better! Waaah!

Oh, and PS: Businesses won't buy this phone even if it did sync with MS Office and whatnot, its too fancy. Businesses like cheap and easily replaceable. That's why businesses don't like Apple. Aside from a few small businesses, this will mostly be a smartphone for the masses.

I believe that this will be the phone to really compel the average person to think more of their phone than just what a basic phone is now. The smartphone market is small because most people don't see any advantages for their personal life. They just want a phone thats easy to use and that works. That's the market that Apple is going for, and the market where I think they have a chance. They're not going to take down Palm and RIM in the corporate arena, but they can definitely hurt Moto and Nokia for the average people that want more from their phone without the mess and don't want a piece of crap like Chocolate. :D

And as far as Cingular goes, they may not be the best carrier, but at least Apple didn't settle with a CDMA carrier and piss off all the Euros. Or allow any other carrier to compromise their UI extensively. And also to Cingluar's credit, they basically bent over and took it from Apple, developing random access voicemail and not even seeing a prototype until extremely recently and not compromising the UI or crippling functionality. Either way, this phone should be on T-Mobile within 12-18 months, max. And by then they should already have a Rev B that improves on everything. The exclusive deal was for iPhone, not for 2G iPhone.

So again, stop crapping your pants and getting all wound up already. Jeez.
 

BuzWeaver

macrumors regular
Dec 3, 2006
220
0
Atlanta, GA USA
One of the key factors from a business perspective was Steve's example of the cell phone market 'itself'. If Apple Inc. gets just 1% as the illustration showed (1 billion cell phone users/world wide) then Steve will probably be happy with 100 million sales.
 

freeny

macrumors 68020
Sep 27, 2005
2,064
60
Location: Location:
This thread is full of those who see the phone for what it is (realists)
and those who see it for what it isnt (dreamers).

Either buy the phone or dont and quityerbitchin!:rolleyes:
 

3282872

macrumors 6502a
Dec 11, 2006
821
0
Cingular:

Cingular Wireless, LLC, headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia, is an AT&T subsidiary and the largest mobile phone company in the United States and Puerto Rico, with more than 59.8 million subscribers. The company has the largest digital voice and data network in the United States.

Cingular was formed through mergers and acquisitions, and as a result of these - as well as the rapid technological change in the wireless industry - Cingular operates wireless networks using many different wireless communication standards. The most widely used of these technologies is called Global System for Mobile Communications, or GSM. On top of its GSM network Cingular operates a data network called GPRS (General Packet Radio Service) and an upgrade for faster speeds called EDGE (Enhanced Data rates for GSM Evolution). Cingular supports their legacy TDMA and analog networks; however in March 2006 they announced that these networks would be shut down by February 2008. As part of this effort, Cingular will charge a $5 monthly fee to those customers who still use TDMA-based phones. Former networks include various paging services and the Cingular Interactive division that became Velocita Wireless which was recently purchased by Sprint Nextel.

In Q1 2006, Cingular Wireless, LLC reported in its first-quarter financial statement that regulatory complaints (complaints to the FCC, Better Business Bureaus and other regulatory or semiregulatory bodies) were reduced over 56% compared to the same quarter one year prior.

Verizon
Verizon Wireless owns and operates the second-largest wireless telecommunications network in the United States, based on total wireless customers.

1) Verizon "cripples" the file and media transferring features of many of their cellphone offerings in order to force customers to purchase content through its "Get It Now" service. One example is the LG VX8500, a phone that features full MP3 player support. (It has a miniSD card to store MP3s, and play and pause/stop buttons on the front of the phone.) Verizon initially modified the phone's firmware to prevent MP3s from being used altogether. While newer phones were sold with the MP3 player re-enabled, and customers were usually informed of this feature, they still cannot be used as ringtones. The newest version of this phone has once again disabled this capability. Verizon's policy is in contrast to its major competitors (both GSM and CDMA): Cingular, T-Mobile, Sprint Nextel, and Alltel; which allow their customers to use all the features that are available in the manufacturer's reference firmware design.

Verizon advertised the Motorola V710 as having full Bluetooth capability, when in reality it had no OBEX or OPP functions built in. After many complaints, a class action suit was filed for false advertising, not only for advertising missing capabilities, but also for telling customers who complained to Verizon that an update was coming out "in November." The lawsuit was initiated in January of 2005 and settlement decision became final on March 20, 2006. The settlement to the lawsuit did not directly address the V710's restrictions. The same hardware crippling exists with Motorola's successor to the V710, the E815, but unlike the V710, the E815 was marked clearly that OBEX and OPP was disabled. Other carriers' versions of the V710, while still possessing some restrictions to the Bluetooth functionality, are much less restrictive overall, allowing full use of the customer's own MIDI and MP3 files for ringtones, etc.

2) Verizon makes heavy use of Qualcomm's BREW technology, and uses it over Java in case of phones where both are an option. By using BREW (which is branded Get It Now), Verizon locks users into its own applications, making it impossible to install anything Verizon doesn't offer. Programs such as the standard mail reader included in some phones were removed, forcing people to buy expensive mail readers from Get It Now. It is not uncommon for CDMA carriers to implement BREW. Most of the US CDMA carriers currently use BREW. Sprint Nextel is the main exception. They have opted for the Java interface.

3) Verizon Wireless has removed features in firmware updates for the Motorola V710 and several other newer phones for ringtone transfers, making it more difficult - but not impossible - to transfer MP3s from the phone's microSD card. This update also disabled editing of the homepage field in WebSessions making it more difficult to use alternate WAP gateways.

4) Verizon Wireless has recently implemented a standard user interface across all handsets. Somewhat reminiscent of LG's interface, this standard reduces support training costs. However, it has also anecdotally alienated many brand-loyal customers who find it not aesthetically pleasing, only minimally customizable, slower than the previous interface, and a hindrance to the functioning of several previously available phone features.

5) Verizon Wireless has come under fire by "power users" of its EV-DO wireless data network (called BroadbandAccess), for using language in its terms of service which heavily restricts what activities an EV-DO user can conduct even though the service is advertised as offering "Unlimited" data usage. The language in Verizon Wireless' usage agreement states "Unlimited NationalAccess/BroadbandAccess services cannot be used for uploading, downloading or streaming of movies, music or games, with server devices or with host computer applications, including, but not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, Voice over IP (VoIP), automated machine-to-machine connections, or peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing, or as a substitute or backup for private lines or dedicated data connections... We reserve right to limit throughput or amount of data transferred, deny or terminate service, without notice, to anyone we believe is using NationalAccess or BroadbandAccess in any manner prohibited above or whose usage adversely impacts our network or service levels."

Not only does Verizon limit the type of "unlimited" use, it imposes a quota on "unlimited" use, and terminates customers who exceed it. According to the Washington Post., Broadband Reports, tech columnist Robert X. Cringely, many wireless industry "insider" news sites, and countless blogs; Verizon advertises "unlimited" broadband service reserves the right to terminate anyone using more than 5G/month (166M/day). This is a quota of about 15 minutes of continuous data transmission time per day. A PBS investigator monitored his bandwidth during normal use and discovered it to be 184M/day.

6) Verizon has advertised picture/video (MMS) messaging as an "IN" Service that will not cost you the normal $0.25 fee per message, or will not deduct from a fixed number of messages plan as long as both parties use Verizon. They however do not mention that there is a data transfer charge at $.015/KB transferred. This hidden charge is imposed on all "data" phones regardless of whether your plan states that you get free "Pix/Flix." Because of this, even a small image transfer can end up costing several dollars.
Verizon has stated that this charge is due to a difference in the way "data phones" transmit pictures and video(by connecting to the data network).

7) Several customers have reported being mis-quoted billing rates for data transfer by customer service representatives over the phone. The company quoted rates such as "0.002¢ per kb" when the actual billed rate was "$0.002 per kb", 100 times more than the quoted rate. Attempts to rectify the discrepancy were hampered by an apparent inabillity for anyone at Verizon to recognize the difference between the two values.

...and yet Cingular sucks? That's a lot of complaints and legal issues with Verizon Wireless...
 

Draelius

macrumors newbie
Feb 3, 2005
24
0
Unless it will sync with Outlook...

...they won't sell a dozen of them. Power users will have no need for it. Kids won't have the money.
 

3282872

macrumors 6502a
Dec 11, 2006
821
0
And as far as Cingular goes, they may not be the best carrier, but at least Apple didn't settle with a CDMA carrier and piss off all the Euros. Or allow any other carrier to compromise their UI extensively. And also to Cingluar's credit, they basically bent over and took it from Apple, developing random access voicemail and not even seeing a prototype until extremely recently and not compromising the UI or crippling functionality. Either way, this phone should be on T-Mobile within 12-18 months, max. And by then they should already have a Rev B that improves on everything. The exclusive deal was for iPhone, not for 2G iPhone.

Thank you, now I don't feel so alone in this LOL. Honestly, both companies have pro's and con's. As an ex-Verizon customer and as Cingular has changed course and is currently rapidly improving many of its own faults, I have been pleased with them so far and am looking forward to its recent advancements.
 

stcanard

macrumors 65816
Oct 19, 2003
1,485
0
Vancouver
Okay foolish as I am I will chime in here although I know this thread is just going to be used to bash based on preconceived opinions, but here we go...

- Can it open Word and Excel documents? –No. (Steve Jobs says it can open PDF files, though.)

.... Yet. What is it about "multipurpose CPU" and installable "Applications" that people don't get? When I got my Palm Smartphone it didn't open Word and Excel documents. Then I installed an application, and it did.

- Will it sync with Outlook? –No.

..... Yet. See above.

Only approved applications can be installed, for quality control

This depends on how its managed, but lets face it ... when I was looking for free applications for my Palm, 99.9% of the stuff out there was absolute, utter, and total cr*p, that I had to wipe because it destabilized my phone. The stuff that I kept was good quality, supported by a company or a developer, and cost money.

If Apple allows people to submit applications for review, approves and sells them through their site then the iPhone will get applications like everyone wants, but keep a reputation for high quality. This is the kind of thing Apple goes for, and I expect the way they will go.

If anyone can download anything, then likely the iPhone will get a reputation like Palms for being buggy and unstable (as I've seen mentioned elsewhere, I had memorized how to hit the reset button for my Smartphone and could do it blindfolded, in the dark, in a gale).
 

3282872

macrumors 6502a
Dec 11, 2006
821
0
...they won't sell a dozen of them. Power users will have no need for it. Kids won't have the money.

This phone isn't for kids or businessmen. Just like the iPod, people were dissing it: "too expensive", "don't like digital music", "can't own songs", "vynyl or cd's". Look what happened years later. Apple, Inc. is raising the bar, pushing the industry to rethink and retool and with the free market, that is a good thing. Of course this phone won't sell like hot cakes, it's not supposed to, and it's directed to a small segment of the market initially (just as the iPod was when it was first released). In a few years time, let's all come back and discuss, I will be looking forward to where the iPhone and what it stands for will take us.
 

stcanard

macrumors 65816
Oct 19, 2003
1,485
0
Vancouver
Oh and one more thing that's really, really, been bugging me.

OSX is not 3GB. OSX -- the XNU kernel + a few supporting libraries that are core to the operation of the system -- is probably less than 100 MB. Its very easy to put a _real_ OSX on something of this size, just as it is to put Linux on an iPod.
 

BrianMojo

macrumors regular
Jul 10, 2006
185
0
Boston, MA
Am I the only one who is really pissed off that you CANNOT add songs from iTunes as ringtones? This is the kind of industry BULLSH*T that I can't stand, and the kind of thing that Apple, with its "just makes sense" technology, shouldn't be endorsing. I don't care if they needed a partner, it's just money-grubbing ridiculousness at its finest.

Other ridiculousness: No Instant Messaging support outside of the pay-for-each-outgoing-AND-INCOMING-SMS -- again, ridiculous. Other countries don't pay for incoming messages and you shouldn't have to! If Apple is looking to revolutionize the phone, then you have to revolutionize the service and knock down these patently ludicrous barricades that they have set up just so they can make a buck.
 

WestonHarvey1

macrumors 68030
Jan 9, 2007
2,773
2,191
No Exchange? No Deal

I don't think there is going to be Exchange support. Why? Because Mail still doesn't have Exchange support - real Exchange support, not IMAP. IMAP doesn't support everything, and many organizations (like mine) turn off IMAP access to the Exchange server, so even getting just your email is out.

If it really won't be able to run applications, then this phone really is not for business customers. I'll stick with my Treo, no matter how much I hate Windows Mobile, because I'm not going to buy 2 phones and 2 plans and somehow separate my work from my "digital lifestyle".

Apple is betting that consumers will suddenly want to pay a ton of money for a phone, the way the iPod made them suddenly want to spend a lot of money on an MP3 player. They don't seem to want the business market - this was probably a deliberate decision.

Too bad, because I really want one.
 

sishaw

macrumors 65816
Jan 12, 2005
1,147
19
Oh and one more thing that's really, really, been bugging me.

OSX is not 3GB. OSX -- the XNU kernel + a few supporting libraries that are core to the operation of the system -- is probably less than 100 MB. Its very easy to put a _real_ OSX on something of this size, just as it is to put Linux on an iPod.

I read in an article that the OSX on the iPhone is .5 (one-half) gig.
 

kddpop

macrumors regular
Jan 5, 2006
117
0
oklahoma city, ok
all this talk of needing 3rd party apps...
i agree that its great to find a specific little app for my palm that only a small time code writer would produce due to lack of market. but i also really like the class of apple's closed systems. allow me to explain.

apple is selling a lifestyle device (as stated elsewhere in this very thread). part of that lifestyle is that things just work. you don't have to "geek around" to get an app to work. closing the system makes this possible.

another aspect of the apple lifestyle is simplicity. with a closed system, things are simpler...you don't have a choice between 30 different solitare programs, half of which are total garbage. you don't find 30 million pages of crappy, cheesy, pc-oriented websites when you google for an app for an apple platform. true, you loose out on choices. and i like choices. but i also like simplicity.

thats one of my main gripes about cell phones. i want to install a ringtone or game and i search around the web for it and....ugh....just page after page of pr0n-ad driven, animated gif riddled tripe that hurts my eyes, often not even having anything to do with the game or app im looking for. im willing to sacrifice some choice in order to have a more pleasant experience with the apple iphone.

we must keep in mind, apple is really good at making a device that is really good at what its designed to do. apple avoids truly crippling their products by making them completely open. the apple iphone will not meet every single need of every single consumer. it will meet the needs it is designed to meet and meet them more elegantly than any other product out there. yes, for that, you pay a premium. that is, if you choose to pay it. there is no law forcing anyone to buy it. if the iphone doesnt meet your needs, then dont buy it. i believe that it will meet the needs of many many people.

so, while it may not be the device for you, it may just well be the device for millions of others.

just my take on it today. tomorrow i might spout differently.

~kyle
 

jwa276

macrumors regular
Aug 7, 2005
119
0
Los Angeles, CA
Geez... Why don't you just pay the 5 bucks extra or something per month to have your unlimited text messages.... It's not apple's fault.

Just because there is no iChat client now doesn't mean there will never be one. Take a chill pill guys. This phone boasts features that all work seamlessly in a revolutionary & slick interface. And besides- this is Apple's first phone. Give 'em a chance already, good lord!!!
 

wkhahn

macrumors member
Dec 5, 2005
52
0
standing over your shoulder
Widgets People

Now full fledged apps... they could be trouble if there's no Desktop application manager for the iPhone... how else would you get a buggy app off the device?
...
Plus side, I can see a big market FOR widgets rather than full fledged apps.. you can do a lot with widgets (calculators, text editors, etc).

This is exactly what I've been thinking about the "lack" of 3rd party apps. The couple of apps shown were weather widget and stock widget. And since widgets did not require a rewrite for the Intel switch, I doubt they would for the iPhone processor either, especially since OSX lives under it all.
I think they will handle 3rd party apps the same way they do widgets: You develop it, you submit it, Apple tests it then distributes it. I'm sure there will be some free, like Marquee, and some that you might have to pay for, say a word or excel viewer. such as version of iCdocs that will let you edit.
 

Warbrain

macrumors 603
Jun 28, 2004
5,702
293
Chicago, IL
I don't think there is going to be Exchange support. Why? Because Mail still doesn't have Exchange support - real Exchange support, not IMAP. IMAP doesn't support everything, and many organizations (like mine) turn off IMAP access to the Exchange server, so even getting just your email is out.

If it really won't be able to run applications, then this phone really is not for business customers. I'll stick with my Treo, no matter how much I hate Windows Mobile, because I'm not going to buy 2 phones and 2 plans and somehow separate my work from my "digital lifestyle".

Apple is betting that consumers will suddenly want to pay a ton of money for a phone, the way the iPod made them suddenly want to spend a lot of money on an MP3 player. They don't seem to want the business market - this was probably a deliberate decision.

Too bad, because I really want one.

Apple doesn't need to support a company's proprietary method of retrieving and sending e-mails. The company needs to use what is the standard that everyone uses.

Geez... Why don't you just pay the 5 bucks extra or something per month to have your unlimited text messages.... It's not apple's fault.

Just because there is no iChat client now doesn't mean there will never be one. Take a chill pill guys. This phone boasts features that all work seamlessly in a revolutionary & slick interface. And besides- this is Apple's first phone. Give 'em a chance already, good lord!!!

They all need something to bitch about. Let them bitch. But you're totally right.
 

dAlen

macrumors regular
Dec 13, 2006
177
0
Am I the only one who is really pissed off that you CANNOT add songs from iTunes as ringtones? This is the kind of industry BULLSH*T that I can't stand, and the kind of thing that Apple, with its "just makes sense" technology, shouldn't be endorsing. I don't care if they needed a partner, it's just money-grubbing ridiculousness at its finest.

Other ridiculousness: No Instant Messaging support outside of the pay-for-each-outgoing-AND-INCOMING-SMS -- again, ridiculous. Other countries don't pay for incoming messages and you shouldn't have to! If Apple is looking to revolutionize the phone, then you have to revolutionize the service and knock down these patently ludicrous barricades that they have set up just so they can make a buck.

No your not the only one. Others, including myself, have posted here (i have blogged about it), that it is silly that you cannot:

- download songs from the itunes store through your apple ipod/iphone
- use your songs as ringtones to customize the tunes for people in your contact list...helps to identify whose calling, and I say have a no tone (heheh...) for those you people not on your contact list.

But what am I saying, I live in Hungary...heck, I cant even buy anything from iTunes, despite the fact I live in Europe and the country is in the E.U.

Oh well,

peace

dAlen
 

Hombre

macrumors newbie
Jan 5, 2007
25
0

david foster

macrumors newbie
Jan 12, 2007
2
0
Let's look at the competition right now...

I just upgraded my company phone from a Treo to a Samsung Blackjack. It also works through Cingular's network.

It is 3G capable (and accesses it from my office).
It is fully Outlook/Exchange capable (using Goodlink technology). I receive all email, access contacts, to-do and schedule info just like I can from my office desktop. I can open Word and Excel document attachments.
The battery can be changed out (and it came with a spare battery and a charger to charge the spare battery).
It has a camera. Speakerphone. Vibration alert. Internet access. Music and video. It reads micromini SD cards (I just ordered a 1GB card online for $18).
The color screen is bright and sharp, very high resolution (2.5").
It has real keys. A dial on the side to scroll through menus and screens.

From a business perspective the proto-iPhone doesn't even come close. On top of everything else, my business bought it for about a third of the cost of the iPhone. The best part: you can have a BlackJack right now; I've got one in my hand. It is 1 cm thick, 6 cm wide and 11 cm long. You can put it in your pocket and just about forget it's there. And the sound fidelity of calls on it is awesome (WAYYY better than the Treo). Most people refuse to believe my calls are cellular (even when I am using the speakerphone!).

I love Macs and the iPhone is "lickabily" cool. But it isn't a business phone. So who will buy it? Or who can afford to? The realities of the world at large: most businesses use Outlook and Microsoft Exchange for email and group scheduling. Most people send Word and Excel attachments. I wish it was different, but M$ won and Apple will do best when it integrates with these realities. Look how successful iPod became when it became compatible with Windows and shed Firewire (superior, no question) for USB.

Best solution for me now is my 8 GB ipod nano and the Blackjack phone in two separate pockets. If you want or need the best solution right now (and probably in June 07), these make an awesome combo.
 

fastdrive

macrumors member
Sep 28, 2006
65
0
I have listened to the Keynote a few times and nowhere did I hear Steve Jobs say that the Iphone is Apples new business oriented phone.

I can't find any reference on the apple iphone site that states it's a business phone.

There is a difference between a consumer oriented smart phone and a business oriented smart phone.
 

drewpage

macrumors newbie
Apr 28, 2005
15
0
WOW! People are missing the point!

I think everyone is missing the point of the iPhone. First and foremost, its a cell phone and an iPod. It can't be everything to everyone. Apple is not billing it as a business tool, so quit saying "why can't it open Word or Excel" or "why can't it sync with Outlook". The is a consumer level phone people!! Apple is not going to market it to the business traveler! No companies will run out and buy it for their employees!!

I would think this would be obvious from the feature set, but many complainers miss this basic fact.
 
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