Political Discussion (formerly G5 Talk)

Discussion in 'Community' started by chmorley, Sep 16, 2002.

  1. chmorley macrumors 6502a

    chmorley

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    #1
    As a lifelong registered Independent, I must agree (although I think the relative probabilities are not at all equal). I was just being funny (and bashing Rush, which is both easy and funny).

    Are you a Republican? I find they have a difficult time understanding humor, as well. :)

    Chris
     
  2. Ovi macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    May 26, 2002
  3. ftaok macrumors 601

    ftaok

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Location:
    East Coast
    #3
    Chris,

    I would consider myself a "enlightened Republican".;)

    I'm all for getting government out of my private life. I feel that people should be able to take care of themselves (for the most part). But I'm also pro-choice.

    Pretty much, straight down the middle, I guess. Plus, I'm very funny.:D
     
  4. chmorley thread starter macrumors 6502a

    chmorley

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    #4
    Re: Republicans and Macs

    Strange argument. Pretty insulated. A lot of assumtions.

    1. What makes you think Democrats don't work hard or have money? Do you have data?

    2. Don't most Republicans support big business like Microsoft and Intel?

    3. What makes you think Democrats are less educated? Do you have data?

    4. And Democrats switch parties? Don't get the point.

    5. Republicans are accepting of difference. Right. That's funny.

    6. I think that's just geekiness (which I find much more appealing than conservatism). That cuts across party lines. :)

    7. Not even sure what this means, but "the Jewish vote" has always been identified as predominantly Democratic (true as recently as the last two Florida elections/debacles).

    A lot of assumtions...

    I figure Mac people are smart, open to new things, and disbelieve the status quo. If you want to assign that to a party, fine. I just hope that they are wielding some power.

    I personally find political parties detrimental. Because I personally value open-mindedness, I have more trouble with those who know the truth, rather than seek it. Both parties do that in different ways, but one is famous for it.

    Anyone know of any data on Mac purchases by state? I'd be curious to see if there is a correlation between voting tendencies and purchasing tendencies. If you find the data, I will do the statistical analysis. We could probably even publish it.

    Chris
    ____
    "Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it."
    --Andre Gide
     
  5. chmorley thread starter macrumors 6502a

    chmorley

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    #5
    Just out of curiousity, why Republican instead of Independent?

    Chris
     
  6. ftaok macrumors 601

    ftaok

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Location:
    East Coast
    #6
    If pinned down to one group, I would say Republican. I'm not registered as a Republican, it's just that I find myself voting that way more often than not.

    As for being Republican instead of Independent. I'm a pretty practical guy, and I'd like my vote to "count". Seeing as how it's a 2-party system, I don't see an Independent being able to win a major election.

    And please don't be offended with the "throwing away votes" comment.

    I guess, if the right Independent candidate comes along and I feel that he/she has a real shot at winning, then I'll vote accordingly. But now-a-days, it seems like I'm just voting to keep one guy or another out of office.

    Aggh, still have 2 years til the next Presidential election. Don't have to get all worked up til then.;)
     
  7. chmorley thread starter macrumors 6502a

    chmorley

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    #7
    I get where you're coming from. I don't think any vote is "thrown away." However, I am registered Independent because I have too many problems with both major parties, and not enough in common with the others to affiliate with one of them. I have never voted for an Independent candidate. As a matter of fact, my exact point is that people become too likely to vote for the candidate their party puts forward, even if s/he is a boob.

    It perpelexes me why people don't simply vote for the best, most competent candidate whose views best represent their own. I believe most people don't. Instead, they identify a party that represents some of their core beliefs, and then (usually) vote that way forever.

    I don't know why I'm perplexed by stupidity, though. We should expect it by now.

    Anyway, my original point was that Rush is a moron (or was it that the guy who said dual processors don't do anything was a moron?). ;)

    Maybe it was both. :p

    Chris
    ____
    "I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him."
    --Galileo Galilei
     
  8. MacCoaster macrumors 6502a

    MacCoaster

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Location:
    Washington, DC / Rochester, NY / Lexington, NC
    #8
    Libertarians?

    A bit off topic... is anyone here a libertarian?

    Count me in, I'm a moderate-to-strong libertarian.
     
  9. void macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Location:
    Not here
    #9
    You guys should take this to another thread. This thread is meant to flame this kid and his unreliable rumors, not to discuss Donkeys and Elephants.
     
  10. MacCoaster macrumors 6502a

    MacCoaster

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Location:
    Washington, DC / Rochester, NY / Lexington, NC
    #10
    Uhh... libertarian party is neither. ;)
     
  11. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    #11
    Speaking of the Donkey Party...

     
  12. chmorley thread starter macrumors 6502a

    chmorley

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Denver, CO
    #12
    Thanks for the advice. I don't know what I was thinking.

    At least Libertarians seem to think for themselves. I am not one, but I appreciate anyone who chooses not to conform.

    Chris
     
  13. ftaok macrumors 601

    ftaok

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Location:
    East Coast
    #13
    Does non-conformist include Raider fans, motor racing fans (not NASCAR) and Mac users?
     
  14. Ovi macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    May 26, 2002
  15. arn macrumors god

    arn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2001
    #15
    Re: Re: Re: Republicans and Macs

    Actually, he said "Pretty insulated"...

    and let's try to keep the posts troll-free. Not saying yours is necessarily, but certainly doesn't have a friendly feel to it either.

    arn
     
  16. chmorley thread starter macrumors 6502a

    chmorley

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    #16
    Re: Re: Re: Republicans and Macs

    You could have ended there. The rest was your opinion. You make some interesting assumtions about our country and me. They tell me a lot about your beliefs.

    Thanks for sharing.

    Chris
     
  17. Moxiemike macrumors 68020

    Moxiemike

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2002
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    #17
    It's obvious that Ovi is either a) a troll b) a moron or c) a moronic troll

    :D
     
  18. Ovi macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    May 26, 2002
  19. Moxiemike macrumors 68020

    Moxiemike

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2002
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    #19
    Re: Politics

    You're a poor brained Republican! Who has no respect for teachers and elders, basically lumping them into the realm of being "lazy".

    teachers are poor because you lovely republicans like to keep stratospherically raising defense budgets for "pre-emptive strikes" against countries that might possibly maybe have a "weapon of mass destruction" (a pencil?? is that what Iraq has???).

    As such, we tend to ignore the fact that our schools are underfunded, unless they're in a rich, white, upper-middle class neighborhood and our teachers in inner-city public schools are, by and large, underpaid.

    Believe me, teachers aren't poor because they don't work hard.

    Which is what you're making assumptions about. take off your crisply starched white collar mask and get in the trenches. Or are you some hack-a** suburbanite who's 'afraid" of the inner-city? And afraid of talking to some inner-city dwellers and workers?

    is that cave you live in a middle class, republican, lacking soul, pre-fab house in the 'burbs by chance? Are your sources foxnews and cnn? Or do you actually look to other sources???
     
  20. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #20
    Re: Re: Republicans and Macs

    well said;)
     
  21. chmorley thread starter macrumors 6502a

    chmorley

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    #21
    Re: Politics

    Let me give this a shot. You have to be willing to listen to scientific thought, and not rhetoric. If you're not, don't read any further.

    First, there is no reason for me to dispute assumtions or prove they are wrong. The hope is that simply by pointing out that they are based in belief, and not fact, that you might be willing to question what you think you know. This is only untrue with "rigid" belief systems. I don't discuss politics with people who have rigid belief systems, as I get frustrated that they don't listen to facts.

    Second, you misunderstand some things about the normal curve, and what happens when it is skewed. Income distributions are terribly skewed, meaning we ought to interpret them with caution. Even if the majority of "poor" people are Democrats, it is a mistake to say that Democrats are poor. While the mean may be lower than that of Republicans, the median may be higher. This happens frequently with skewed distributions. Hell, the Income distribution curve for Democrats may be bi-modal. If you would like, I can send you a lecture I do on this subject (though it may have to wait until the end of the semester). Since I don't know of good data on this, I will simply say we don't know the nature of these distributions. And by the way, show yourself what you want to know. Don't make an assumtion and then ask others to disprove you. That might attract viewers on FOX, but is terrible thinking.

    Third, you misunderstand what "facts" are. As Arnold Lazarus (probably the most respected psychologist alive) says, "There are anecdotes, and there is evidence. There is no such thing as anecdotal evidence." Most of the time, newspapers provide anecdotes. They may be based in fact, but typically contain the writer's version of the truth, which is a problem if you are looking for "evidence" or facts.

    Fourth, I believe our culture has been encouraged by the likes of Rush, O'Reilly, Jim Rome, and others (I am sure there are liberals who belong on this list) that we ought to decide what is "right" and then wait for the facts to come in. When the facts come in, if they don't fit with our version of "the truth", we will find some reason why they are wrong. I argue that we cause all sorts of unnecessary problems with this approach. Why not accept that we don't know the answer to most questions? Ask questions instead. Gather data. Even flawed data is better than unsupported belief (though not by much).

    Fifth (and last), recognize that your views are skewed by what you do for a living. So are mine. I am VP of my company and teach at a local University. Most (but not all) of the people I meet (in both of these worlds) are very bright, make very good money, and are very liberal. This also is not "evidence". It is simply experience. It ought to inform our world views, but should not be mistaken for fact.

    I feel no need to prove you wrong. You have beliefs based in dogma and emotion. I can't disprove those, and would never try. I would encourage you to think more critically, though. The way you think affects the world I live in.

    We are all in this boat together.

    Chris
    ____
    "The essence of knowledge is, having it, to apply it; not having it, to confess your ignorance."
    --Confucius
     
  22. chmorley thread starter macrumors 6502a

    chmorley

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    #22
    Data

    By the way, Ovi, you also figured that Mac users were Republican. Take a look at the only data I have seen so far.

    Thread

    Granted, this is far from scientific, and only a measure of the political affiliations of Macrumors members, but the preliminary data don't support your belief.

    Chris
    ____
    "Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper."
    --Robert Frost
     
  23. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #24
    during the last election, a trend was seen with rural church going people with high school educations tending towards bush by a few percentage points and urban professionals with college degrees tending towards gore by a few percentage points

    it was always very close where in a farming community, bush would be up by no more than five points

    or in a urban city, gore would be up by no more than five points with the professional set

    so these rural vs urban trends were just for this past election and may not hold true next time around in 2004
     

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