Poverty gap in US has widened under Bush

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Ugg, Feb 26, 2007.

  1. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #1
    Link


    I'm sure it's only because people have squandered their education. (Sarcasm)


    Oops, those too stupid to invest in the stockmarket or not republican enough to suckle at the bushco's breast are simply out of luck.


     
  2. 4nr- macrumors regular

    4nr-

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    #2
    Outrageous. The distribution of income was bad before. How could anybody allow it to worsen?
     
  3. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #3
    Well, corporate profits accrue to the stockholders--which is universities, pension funds, individual investors. Folks like you or your friends or relatives. And without corporate profits there wouldn't be corporate jobs, whether it's on a farm on in a factory or bank or with a home-builder. Without corporate profits there wouldn't be money for R&D and for investment in new facilities and expansion. It ain't done by good wishes and magic.

    And, face it, folks who are generationally involved in some form of "welfare" skew the picture. Much of their housing costs, food and utilities are not included as "income", even though there is a value to them. These studies only look at cash-flow income. You add in the illegals who only get part-time work, and you have even more people below the line.

    Jobs going overseas and the looming recession are gonna make it even more of a separation, I imagine...

    'Rat
     
  4. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    Well, no kidding. You figure that there's no limit on the upside of success, but despite their attempts, the poor can't figure out how to sink any lower than zero (although through the miracle of credit cards and payday loans they're making great strides in this area).

    Massage the numbers right and this phenomenom has existed since the invention of currency.
     
  5. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #5
    Here you go again with your "the poor are immoral and stupid" bit. :rolleyes:
     
  6. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #6
    Swarmlord or Desertrat, would you care to explain why the number of people living on under $5,000 (individuals) / $10,000 (families) a day grew 56% to 16 million? Or care to explain how that is "massaging" the numbers or skewing the picture?

    Or can you admit your statements are BS?
     
  7. QuarterSwede macrumors G3

    QuarterSwede

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    #7
    Interesting post. I especially like the bit about, "much of their housing costs, food and utilities are not included as "income", even though there is a value to them." Too true. I know a few people who have subsidized living. The reason they don't get out of it is because its much easier (cheaper) not too.

    Personally, I don't think six years is long enough to affect economic numbers that much. I think one presidents "reign" runs into another's.
     
  8. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #8
    There you go putting words into my mouth again. :rolleyes:

    What I just pointed out is the phenomenon that occurs when comparing a distribution that can expand infinitely on one side and has no where to go on the other. This mathematical phenomenon would exist whether it was income distribution being discussed or maintenance data on a gas turbine engine.

    Now, addressing the actual numbers in the article...anyone else think that maybe these numbers are skewed by a number of people in society that make exactly zero? What about the 15 million estimated illegals? How are they tallied? How many of these supposed "poor" individuals are part time people, students, teenagers with summer jobs, etc? People that operate outside the economy whether black market or under the table? They counting the "income" that prisoners make while in prison too?

    See where I have a problem with these so called economic studies and numbers involving the so called economic bottom?
     
  9. Ugg thread starter macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #9
    What you are refusing to acknowledge is the fact that the numbers based on income have gotten 26% worse since 2000. Are there 26% more illegal immigrants or students since then? Highly unlikely.

    Since unemployment has remained fairly static since 2000, it's very likely that many of these extreme poor are working.

    It could well include retirees who were screwed over by Enron or Worldcom-like pyramid schemes.

    No, that's simply not possible in your narrowly defined world where the poor are responsible for their poverty.
     
  10. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    They aren't? I must have missed that class where dropping out of highschool, developing a criminal record, or otherwise making oneself unemployable or having limited job skills led to high paying careers. You think that these people are making $5 grand a year because no one accepts their nursing license or has a car, furnace or airconditioner to repair?

    Narrowly defined? Far from it. It's this "inner city slum" mentality that's narrow minded in my opinion. We didn't have squat when I was a kid, but with an axe and a little elbow grease we had firewood during the rough times. I bet these $5 grand a year rocket scientists you're so quick to defend couldn't split a cord of wood without losing a limb.

    Just how far are we expected to bend over backwards to save full grown adults from themselves?
     
  11. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #11
    well it slowly happens here too ... it's the outcome of the globalization : sooner or later the middle class will be gone
     
  12. Ugg thread starter macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #12
    Obviously the only question is: why were your parents so poverty stricken? According to your endless tirades, there's simply no excuse for poverty.....
     
  13. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #13
    Once again, I reiterate my earlier statement. I was hardly putting words in your mouth as you have so eloquently demonstrated just now.
     
  14. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #14
    well around here it would be more of the reverse since here you can't go into the woods and chop down trees so easily just like i can't take a gun and start hunting deers in the woods
     
  15. Bobdude161 macrumors 65816

    Bobdude161

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    #15
    hmmm gotta love the American Dream. Especially when it can be obtained with 23% interest with a 48 month payment plan! We are waaaay too influenced by shiny products that retail stores constantly throw at us and give us these impulse buys. Especially Macs. ;)

    This is why I am hesitant to offer credit cards as an option at my work. Just feels sooo wrong sometimes, like I'm putting people into more debt. :( :(
     
  16. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    The rich get richer(Ceo class) and screw everyone else. Thats Corporate America. You cant move all your factory base to Communist China like Apple and so many others and expect it not to hurt our own Country meaning working class. CEO's could care a less about this class because they operate out of pure Greed of $$$.
     
  17. pdham macrumors member

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    #17
    I... umm...

    I was going to respond to this but I dont think I could possibly convey what I am thinking through the typed word.....

    I wil let the more elequent people on these boards do it for me.
     
  18. Zwhaler macrumors 603

    Zwhaler

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    #18
    OMG not this again! Look. Bush's goal is to turn the US into a third world country, where 5 percent of the population owns 95% of the country (and has 95% of the money) and the rest of the country lives in poverty. He has started this process with No Child Left Behind. If you really (and I mean really) want to know why, just ask. But expect a long explanation.

    A third world country is largely a country with no middle class. He has started the process, and if he had his way, me, and every one else in the middle class, would be homeless. I hope that swine gets impeached.
     
  19. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #19
    Father was floor covering installer and piano tuner. Stay at home mother. That's what they wanted to become and they didn't whine about it or compare their lot in life with someone else.

    I guess if you ran the numbers we were poor, but we didn't think we were any different than anyone else. We cut a lot of wood and canned a lot of fruit and vegetables to get through the year, that's for sure.

    Maybe now you can understand why I don't have a lot of compassion for young adults who's only skill is to operate a TV remote and figure out whether the zipper in their pants is in the front of the back.
     
  20. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #20
    Once again, you keep saying it! The poor are immoral and/or stupid. We get it.

    You had good parents, it sounds like. I was in a situation similar to yours and I had good parents too. Some people don't- that can lead to a cycle of poverty that's extremely tough to break. But that's only one reason poverty occurs. There are many others.
     
  21. pdham macrumors member

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    #21

    Oh, so you had a stay at home mom to read to you, play with you, help you with homework, and generaly look out for your welfare. Your right that is the exact same thing as an inner city child whose parents both work two jobs (if they even have two parents) and who are raised by family members that watch 15 other kids or are raised by brothers and sisters.
     
  22. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    I don't get the immoral bit though. To be fair I think a lot of people are "stupid" although I never use the term.
     
  23. Ugg thread starter macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #23
    You just did. What's the point of thinking it but not saying it? Are you inherently dishonest?
     
  24. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #24
    OK, take cooks for example:

    http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos161.htm#earnings

    There are 3 million cooks/prep workers plus 125,000 head chefs in this country. The head chefs make good money, but for the other 3 million people, the median income ranges from $7 to about $10 an hour, so let's call the middle ground $8.50. That means 1.5 million people make about $17,000 or less working full time. There are plenty of other jobs like this and the point is this: there are not enough high paying jobs in existence for all these people to get higher-paying jobs, regardless of what skills they may aquire. No matter how educated our workforce is, there will still be tens of millions of short-order cooks, cashiers, sales clerks, food service workers, and so on who work their asses off and deserve not to live in poverty.

    And here's the most important point: when you're poor, the margins make a HUGE difference. If you make $1000 a month and your basic bills take up $800 of that, a raise to $1100 will make a large difference to your life. If you make $100,000 a month and get a raise to $110,000, it really doesn't affect you, and doesn't compare in the least to 10 poor people getting one tenth of it each.
     
  25. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #25
    Here you go:

    I would say that would be immoral.
     

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