Powermac Update? Not just any update ;)

Discussion in 'Macintosh Computers' started by Ensign Paris, Apr 30, 2003.

  1. Ensign Paris macrumors 68000

    Ensign Paris

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
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    Europe
    #1
    Hi,

    Even though I am still under the NDA, that doesn't stop me giving out info that I got told by someone not under the NDA, but with access to a leaker who is inside the NDA (I myself would never leak!)

    Any thoughts?

    Ensign
     
  2. jethroted macrumors 6502a

    jethroted

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    #2
    Re: Powermac Update? Not just any update ;)

    Anyone who still thinks the "G5" is comming has not been keeping their ear very close to the ground. The G5 will probably never come out, and the G series will most likely be replaced by the 970 from IBM, which is a derivative of the power 4. Anyone who is slipping you "insider rumors" about a G5 is most likely lying.
     
  3. RBMaraman macrumors 65816

    RBMaraman

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    Prospect, KY
    #3
    Re: Re: Powermac Update? Not just any update ;)

    I hate to disagree with you, but I must. Motorola does not own the rights to the G-Series names, Apple does. It would be in Apple's best interest to call the new processor the G5, mainly because it's a name that would be easier to market. The real names of the G4 are Motorola 7437 (I don't know the actual number, so I made one up). Most likely, Apple will go with the IBM PPC 970, and call the machine the PowerMac G5.

    Several months ago, I thought the G5 name would be dead when the 970 came out. So, I posted a thread about what they would call the chip, and nearly everyone responded G5.
     
  4. Tiauguinho macrumors 6502a

    Tiauguinho

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    #4
    G5 doesnt directly mention that it is another Motorola chip, its the Code that Apple uses for its chips. So a G5 will probably be the PPC 970. Nonetheless its a good leak, but ill take it with a grain of salt. Untill the PPC 970 comes out im holding my breath and my VISA card as well :D .
     
  5. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    Location:
    VA
    #5
    G5? Why talk of that now when at WWDC we're going to be hopefully seeing the IBM 970?

    Unless Apple plans on keeping the 'G' prefix on its processors.....:confused:

    All this is purely speculation as far as I'm concerned and I'm just going to wait and see what happens in June....:D

    D
     
  6. dabirdwell macrumors 6502

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    Oklahoma
    #6
    Doesn't "G" just mean "Generation"

    A "Generation-5" PowerMac could use the PPC 970 processor.
     
  7. jethroted macrumors 6502a

    jethroted

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    #7
    Well I would be surprised to see them name it a G5. I guess we will see what they will do in June. Since they are on bad terms with moto right now, and want to push away from them, I would guess they would change the name because in most peoples minds

    G3 = moto
    G4 = moto
    therefore
    G5 should = moto

    I think they want to get away from that, and come out with a totally new name, especially since it will be 64 bit. Beacuse of that alone, It means big changes, so a new name is likely.
     
  8. QCassidy352 macrumors G3

    QCassidy352

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    #8
    I might be way off here, but doesn't IBM already make some version of the G3? Sahara?
     
  9. Wes macrumors 68020

    Wes

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    #9
    F.Y.I. Don't spread false info,

    G3 = IBM
    G4 = Motorola
     
  10. agreenster macrumors 68000

    agreenster

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    #10
  11. Wes macrumors 68020

    Wes

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    #11
    The chips that apple uses now, the Saharas, have been refined by IBM. Every G3 Mac I have seen has been an IBM chip.
     
  12. dabirdwell macrumors 6502

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    #12
    It's probably safe to say that the average Mac buyer doesn't know the producer of their microprocessor.
     
  13. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

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    Feb 7, 2002
    #13
    all i have to say is that if he is a rep and isnt under an nda, he knows nothing because nobody is telling him anything. and if he was a rep he would work for apple, which he would be under nda. if he is a rep for a retail store, he may be under nda, but regardless if you work at a retail store he wont know anything anyways thats exciting.

    iJon
     
  14. cubist macrumors 68020

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    Muncie, Indiana
    #14
    Re: Powermac Update? Not just any update ;)

    I am still struggling with this sentence. If you are under NDA you have promised not to leak information which is specially marked; call it "red" information. Any public information you are free to disseminate, we'll call "green" information.

    So if you receive "red" information from someone who is not under NDA, isn't it still "red" as far as you are concerned, and you are enjoined from sharing it?
     
  15. Wyrm macrumors 6502

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    Toekeeyoe, Japan
    #15
    POWER to the people (again)

    Luckily, everything is based on the PPC ISA - a joint venture of Moto, Apple, and IBM - so they all "own" the names.

    The Moto G3 (75x) and the first G4 (74xx) designs were almost the same internally, with the exception of the G4 having AltiVec (which is IP owned by Moto). Later, Moto G4 designs had their pipelines lengthened to increase frequency - and were internally changed enough to be considered "new" implementations of the PPC ISA - yet they are "still" G4s. IBM did not license the AltiVec IP until recently - in order to put it in the 970. Since Apple has put SO MUCH emphasis on AltiVec (VelocityEngine), the IBM move is the clearest signal that Apple will adopt the 970 (either IBM is trying to sell them the idea, or Apple came to IBM for help... not sure which, but the latter jives more with the rumor mills).... could they call it the G4? Sure, but it will cause confusion, and look like Apple is stagnant - does the 970 offer anything new? Sure, 64bit, faster bus... better design - could it be the G5? Yeah, why not?

    IBM's G3 (the 750FX) internally is much different than Moto's G3, but externally looks the same. It is currently used in the iBook.

    The 970's difference is it is a derived processor from the POWER4 series (PerfOrmance With Enhanced Risc), whereas the other PPCs evolved from the original 601 PPC (which also came from POWER but long ago - POWER1)- and has a vastly different (revolutionary to the current series) internal structure.

    Apologise for the info dump, but:

    Doubtful the 970 works out of the box - actually, more accurately the chipset support is most likely not in the current OS X - which means it probably won't work with the current version of OS X. It will need a patch at a minimum to the current OS. The next 10.2 patch (6) is in the pipeline, but no-one has seen 970 support (we see ATI 9600 mobility support, so we can see if Apple adopts this product in the near future) - don't even think about 64 bit support yet.

    This support could be in OSX1.3, and may be unveiled at the June WDC. OSX1.3 may have a 64 bit version? Rumor, rumor, rumor. A PowerMac with more memory slots? That would be cool.

    There could be differing opinions on whether the XServe would get it first, or the PowerMac or the 2 together. On one hand the XServe makes more sense, since the distribution is MUCH smaller - those with XServe strategies raise your hands... now compare that to the seeming masses who want PowerMacs. On the other hand, when you are trying to portray the XServe as being stable, you don't use radically new technology... unless they sell the 970 as a Baby POWER (which already has a great history). It all depends on what yields IBM is getting on the 970 (fabbed in NY state? Assembled in?) - big yields = availability to seeming masses, small yields = XServe.

    That said - they may "update" the PowerMac line before the 970 comes... big MAYBE there, but I'm sure it won't be a 970 based PowerMac. When the new 970 PowerMac comes, it will need a little more introduction. Whether Apple calls it G5 or not is up to their marketing... but I hope they won't call it G4 - and 970 is a pretty cool name - but then G5 keeps people from having to explain the 970 is better than the G4... although this will probably happen anyways, just not as bad. Apple marketing tends to love explaining things with colorful words, so I have no doubt that even if the 970 offered nothing new, Apple marketing would make it seem like the next computer revolution was coming from them.

    Cheers

    Wyrm
     
  16. ericthemacpope macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2003
    #16
    Re: Re: Re: Powermac Update? Not just any update ;)

    i don't think thats correct. Motorola does own the rights to "g". They first came out with like the g1 or something like that. Apple was just another customer. That's why apple can't call the 970 g5. and although motorola is developing a g5 the macs probably won't use them.I am pretty confident with my source ( guy, owned a apple 2 gsx, he knkows his stuff) anyway if anyone has some really contradicting evidence then i am wrong, but i am pretty sure
    eric
     
  17. Postal macrumors regular

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    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    #17
    I don't think that this is necessarily a "next month" deal, if this is true. Remember that Apple knows full well that PowerMac sales are currently down on account of the G4's lethargic performance. Shipments of 1 GHz G4s may stop simply because Apple figures that it has enough to ride out the gap between this and the next update, whether that update includes the PPC 970 or not.

    1.25 and 1.42 GHz PowerMacs would presumably continue to ship because there are always people who will want the fastest at the time they're looking to buy.
     
  18. RBMaraman macrumors 65816

    RBMaraman

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    Location:
    Prospect, KY
    #18
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Powermac Update? Not just any update ;)

    Actually that's not correct. My iBook contains an IBM G3. How can that be, you ask? Simple, Apple owns the "G" trademarks, and applies them to their purchased processors. The "G" stands for "Generation." My source: the United States Patent Office. Your friend doesn't know what he's talking about.
     
  19. Wyrm macrumors 6502

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    Jan 7, 2003
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    Toekeeyoe, Japan
    #19
    NOT A TRADEMARK!

    As far as I can tell G3, G4 are NOT TRADEMARKS.

    Apple does NOT cite G3, G4 as a TRADEMARK (required TM, and small print) - the "Velocity Engine" is an APPLE trademark.

    Moto uses the G3, G4 term
    IBM uses the G3 term

    PowerPC IS a TRADEMARK of IBM - so if anyone, IBM would own it.

    ANYONE CAN USE G5!!!!!

    So THERE!

    :mad:

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  20. MrMacMan macrumors 604

    MrMacMan

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    #20
    Apple owns the rights to The 'G_' but more specifically apple gives the right to the processor makers for use, IBM and Moto. I believe at one time they all owned the rights amonst themselves, but I could be wrong. edit: Anyone can use the 'G' because it would stand for generation, but if IBM vs. Moto vs. Apple, apple would probably win the 'G_' trademark

    I hope They DON'T name the 970 the 'G5' because it wouldn't be the 5th generation chip. I remember a post about this.
    The 970 is a derivative of the 'Power4' line of chips, namely the 4th Gen of IBM of this chipset. From the IBM point of view it would be a Gen-4 chip, from apple's it *could* be called a Gen-5 chip.
     
  21. RBMaraman macrumors 65816

    RBMaraman

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    #21
    Re: NOT A TRADEMARK!

    Dude, chill out. I know they don't own the Trademark, but they have filed papers with the US Patent Office to acknowledge their use of the letter "G" to mean "Generation." The company my dad works for has filed papers with the patent office for 5 different products. They didn't get patents, but they do have legal rights for the material, and those papers do hold up in court. Apple did the same thing.
     
  22. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    #22
    Doubtful that Apple would be granted a trademark that'll stand up in court, remember Intel's claim on the x86 monikers that failed to win damages in court -- thus the actual use of trademarked names.

    Plus Victoria's Secret lost their claims for trademark dilution against Victor's Secret.

    But it would be interesting to see what would happen if Apple did continue with the G-series computer naming scheme...
     
  23. tjwett macrumors 68000

    tjwett

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    #23
    Isn't Ensign Paris the guy who supplied some very serious info a while back that turned out to be totally true and accurate? I wouldn't ignore what this dude has to say. Let's hope you're right, again. And let's hope I'm not confusing you with someone else.
     
  24. cb911 macrumors 601

    cb911

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    #24
    that would be really good if they at least announced the new PowerMacs with the PPC 970! :D

    anyway, are you sure it is a fact that no more 1GHz PowerMacs are shipping? that at least means that something is up with the PowerMac lines.


    ask you friend if he has any info about the PowerBooks as well.;) :D
     
  25. Reed Black macrumors newbie

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    Jul 23, 2002
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    Los Angeles
    #25
    who cares what they call it?! As long as its a quality machine with much needed speed and expandablity. They can call it the Apple "IpowermacpodtitaniumaluminumGFORCE whatever..." who cares. Just bring the new machines quick. This 400mhz yikes is starting to show its age - FOR REAL!!


    reed black
     

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